Remote Mounted Turbo

[2fst4u]

does anyone have knowledge of these systems? i'm very interested in doing a setup like this on my 2.4L. would i need to change anything as far as fuel goes? i know there's a guy with a cavalier and a stock 3.4L that has this type of system. he has no other engine mods but this system and is seeing some pretty good results.
any info is welcome

[SweetNLow]

someone correct me if im wrong but i believe there is a rather large negative to a remote mounted turbo as in you have a HUGE lag time for the turbo to spool up.......

[2fst4u]

well, the guys on gagt.com say that lag is minimal, the air runs cooler, and it doesn't clog up the engine bay. all i hear are positives. each downfall seems to be shot down shortly there after. so, that's why I'm so interested. i had never heard of them before.

[Spilner521]

i've read up on this a little bit.

lag isnt nearly as much as you'd think...very minimal, if any depending on the turbo you use. yes you would need to modify the fuel system, no matter if you run 1 psi or 10 psi, to provide added fuel for the added air going into the engine, just like any other turbo kit. plus, with a remote mounted turbo, you're always getting fresh air instead of the heated air in the engine bay. plus underhood temps are kept way down.

a problem would be the piping. it'll be a pain to fit the exhaust piping with the charge piping under an alero, let alone keeping the charge pipe away from the hot exhaust....plus you need that much more piping so cost will go up a little as well as fabrication time. even though you get fresh air, it still heats up from compression, so an intercooler is still a good idea (not like you can cut that out to save on cost). the turbo will be exposed to the elements so you'll have to have some way to cover it (a glowing hot turbo getting splashed with cold water isnt something you'll want to deal with, unless you like buying new turbos every few weeks)

personally, i dont think its a bad idea at all. in my opinion its just a little easier and more practical to mount the turbo to the exhaust manifold and just use heat shielding to keep the heat down.

[BlackJack]

it will give you more HP than stock. I suggest you look into all the wild claims they make on it first though.

They make a big exciting deal of how on the LT1, since it's mounted behind the rear axle, that this somehow does wonders for weight placement and traction.....come on, give me a break. All the hype....I dont know, decide for yourself on this one. I do believe what they say about cooler temperatures underhood and in the turbo itself. Makes scientific sense. Would I use one? No. I found ways to deal with temperatures so I dont have to put up with pitiful boost levels. Yeah, they dealt with the lag situation by putting in a smaller snail and smaller intake piping so you hit boost quicker and see less lag. What they dont tell you is that the powerband falls on it's face before it hits 5k on the tach. Great if you wanna do burnouts and not really rev the engine to it's potential. You're still gonna kill the tranny with low-end torque because of it's spool time.

Look at all the wonderful build-up on the Tornado intake insert. All the "testimonials" from customers that say how you can't live without it blah blah blah. Heh, that was a real bastardization, but first thing ya know, everybody's believing the hype and telling you how cool it is cuz they're too embarassed to admit otherwise, after they spent their money. So the chain goes on and on, more people telling you how great it is when they've never owned one.

Has anybody inquired about the cost of a kit for an N-body yet?

[SilverBullet256]

i dont know if a kit is actually available, but it wouldnt be hard to fabricate one, like since you dont have to deal with new intake manifolds and everything, my uncle's monte carlo has a rear mount on it and he made the whole thing in his garage, and it showed osme pretty good results so i think they are worth it, i guess its a matter of oppinion

[jabartram]

Here's the link to the STS website.

[BlackJack]

oh dear, oh my.....I'm sorry, during my rant, I forgot to link you to the magical hype machine. Sorry. Heh, they talked me out of it in their own words....

# Ease of installation. STS turbo systems can be installed in about 8 hours with standard tools and average mechanical ability.

- yeah, and a underhood can be installed in about 4 or less with average mechanical ability.

# Performance Sound. The turbo acts as a muffler and sounds like an aftermarket performance muffler. Turbo spool and rushing air from the blow-off valve make a unique sound that will turn heads!

- oh, can you just feel the excitement kiddies?

# No need for major modifications to your vehicle. STS systems are designed to "bolt-on" to factory mounts.

- yes, designed to REPLACE the muffler, and may not be legal in all states.

# Increased gas mileage. Unlike a belt driven supercharger, the turbo utilizes "wasted" energy leaving your tailpipe. Most of our customers get 1-3 mpg increase in gas mileage.

- not with increased injector size that you SHOULD upgrade. Do it properly, and I doubt your fuel economy will improve. You mean they're trying to say you will increase the amount of air that goes in, but not the amount of gas? hahaha, ok.

# Lower underhood temperatures. No need to worry about melting wires, hoses, or other components.

- finally we get to a genuine benefit, but instead of all the things you see listed, you're now going to have to worry about melted bearings instead.

# Converts back to stock in about an hour.

- and takes up to 8 hours to install? hahaha, ok.

# More room under the hood. Future repair work or modifications will not require the expense of removing the turbo system to allow access to engine components.

- anybody wonder why true dual exhaust just isn't done in our cars? Cuz there ISN"T ROOM for the second exhaust pipe....which brings me to the question of: Where are you going to run the intake return pipe, by the exhaust where it gets nice and hot, which I thought was what we were trying to avoid in the first place.

# Cooler oil to the turbo. Cool oil is better for both the turbo and engine.

- yup, it is...for as long as you can get oil to keep moving, you're golden. Heaven help you though, if you have ANY portion of the return feed lower than the oil pan.

# Approximately 500F lower turbo temperatures. Eliminates the need for a turbo-timer, which allows the engine to run after the car is shut off in order to cool down the turbo and prevent oil and bearing damage.

- Dont believe that crap, the bearings can still get coked.

# Denser exhaust gasses drive the turbo turbine wheel more efficiently.

- Denser meaning cooler, and no they dont. Heat is the key to velocity in the exhaust path, where a turbo is concerned. As the exhaust cools, it loses volume. Keeping the exhaust hot and keeping the heat in the pipes is the key to efficiency.

# Built-in intercooling. Intake piping provides ~50% intercooler efficiency. There is no need for the expense, pressure drop, and installation problems associated with a front mounted intercooler.

- Compression causes heat. I'd add one anyway, and do it right.

# Turbo is exposed to ambient air rather than underhood air. Allows for better cooling of turbo components.

- yes, exposed to dirt, rocks, debris, mud, water, you name it, all direct under that ol fenderwell

# No need for expensive headers, mufflers, or exhaust systems.

- valid point.

# Turbo is closer to the tail pipe outlet. Provides a better pressure differential across the turbine wheel which promotes better flow across turbine.

- Turbo IS the tailpipe outlet. valid point.

# Better weight transfer. Increases traction because the bulk of system is mounted in rear of vehicle rather than up front.

- Lord help you if I have to explain how rediculous that claim is. Even if you were rear wheel drive.

# Less noise in the passenger compartment.

- maybe. I'd have to call bull$hit on that statement though.....prove it.

CONCLUSION:

BlackJack's product review tallied the results, and the findings are -

12 - Bull$hit statements from their own mouths
3 --Good points
a couple of possiblilities.

Bottom line? BlackJack score's this product two thumbs down

actually the bottom line is, dont get snowed, investigate. You may find that this product is for you.

[2fst4u]

yup, that's the idea behind this thread. research. thanks for your input guys. and only add if you have experience with these, not solely on opinion.

[SilverBullet256]

exactly, like i said its all a matter of oppinion on what you want, i personally prefer an s/c, blackjack likes underhood turbo's and if you think a rear mount is good then go for id, i personally would like to see the finished product and if you do it i would give you mad props


and like my info on them is from what i have personally saw on a setup on a monte carlo so if im wrong on something then im sorry

[2fst4u]

well, the guy in question at gagt.com is from lancaster pa, which is about 45 minutes from me. he might be able to hook me up with a setup. i'm still researching, tho.

[jabartram]

i looked into this a while back, and realized if we dont have the room to run dual pipes, we dont have the room to run a single exhaust pipe and a pressure pipe, if you did by chance fit them both, they would be running the length of the vehicle touching and cause the pressure pipe to heat up more due to exhaust pipe temp. but the main concern is dual pipes.

[Vtolds]

Didn't we talk about this system before on here?

[SweetNLow]

Originally posted by 2fst4u@Apr 10 2006, 03:12 PM
and only add if you have experience with these, not solely on opinion.

Quoted post

u should know that no1 has experience with these so everything is gonna be opinion for hte most part. with the exception of blackjack's kick ass post........ YOUR MY HERO BLACKJACK <3

anyways it looks interesting...... but do u see where the airfilter is mounted? people with cai's freak out about there fitler being in the wheel well...... and with this kit that sucker is really out in the open. god forbid u get stuck in a rain storm you would really be effed

[kwhauck]

i have researched a lot about these kits and have seen some in person, they are the real deal and worth the money, the only kit for us is a universal kit, I am dealing with them and a local shop owner/distributor on a twincharged setup with the m62 and a sts turbo......

[BlackJack]

make no mistake, I dont own one, but you have to take known research on the overall workings of turbo's that HAVE been proven, and make reasonable comparisons on claims versus reality. I think I've shown in a few line-items above that in some cases, they're talking mad smack, and I believe that it's because they're afraid they wont have enough REAL positive points to convince people to buy one. All that fluff is enough to steer me away from one cuz I dont like liars, and I dont trust the inexperienced.

[kwhauck]

Originally posted by BlackJack@Apr 10 2006, 06:43 PM
make no mistake, I dont own one, but you have to take known research on the overall workings of turbo's that HAVE been proven, and make reasonable comparisons on claims versus reality. I think I've shown in a few line-items above that in some cases, they're talking mad smack, and I believe that it's because they're afraid they wont have enough REAL positive points to convince people to buy one. All that fluff is enough to steer me away from one cuz I dont like liars, and I dont trust the inexperienced.

Quoted post

yeah they have a lot of promotrional bullpoop, but there cars when said and done are the real deal, and produce real results without the need for a big ass intercooler.......

blackjack- rear mont turbo systems use an oil pump to cycle the oil and with the sts design the return line is plumbed to the cap


you can also use stratched pipe which is an oval shape for tighter spaces, you could run that under the car and out of the tunnel even if you wanted to or you could run an exhaust and intake like that and put a sheild between them or wrap the exhaust to keep more of the useful heat in the system

and for the water concerns, use a water sleeve from K&N or some place and you can always fab up a sheet metal sheild with some sheers a drill and a riveter and rivets

[FormulaNERD]

damn, do a search, theres already a thread on this.

in most cases i dont think this would work. but i saw a high 9 second gto with an STS, so who knows.

but jabartram is right, no dual pipes = no sts

no, the tubing im talking about will allow it and will actually fit flush with the rocker if you so desired or you could run it for the exhaust and intake and have plenty of room