Electric Powered Supercharger

[FormulaNERD]

READ THE WHOLE POST. NO ASININE COMMENTS IF YOU HAVENT READ IT ALL.

http://www.boosthead.com

ok, this conversation came up in another thread, and i didnt want to continue to hijack it, so i created it's own thread.

and i'm also confident that thomas (geoff) knight will join this site when he see's all the refferals from alermod.com when you guys click the link about and check out his site.... so lets get this discussion started, i'll start off with the info from the other thread, and then other people can comment and bash on it untill geoff from boosthead (the creator) comes in and proves everyone wrong as i've seen in a few other forums.

believe me, when i first heard about electric superchargers i thought it was a joke, and i still think most of them are. but when i came across the thomas knight electric turbocharger i saw there was hope, but i still wasnt convinced. well i checked back into the project and now i see that he's using the good stuff, an eaton "roots" type supercharger, powered by 3 motors from an auxillary battery setup. and it works. or so i think.

Originally posted by FormulaNERD+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FormulaNERD)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>i'd rather go with an electric supercharger. universal, and cheaper.[/b]

Originally posted by VTOLDS+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (VTOLDS)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Electric Superchargers are worthless, I researched them a couple years ago there is so much Power Drain you mine as well just not have it on at all.
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<!--QuoteBegin-VTOLDS@

Here are some websites for Electric Superchargers, I think it is laughable how stupid they are. It is a good idea, and they do work but I think most of you will agree with me that a Electic Supercharger cant compare to a real one.

http://www.esuperchargers.com/
http://www.electricsupercharger.com/
http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/bette...20supercharger
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight/
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<!--QuoteBegin-FormulaNERD

It is a good idea, and they do work but I think most of you will agree with me that a Electic Supercharger cant compare to a real one.Â;-)
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a "real one" is parasitic to the engine and uses the engine to power it. i dont see how that is beneficial.

you can take a stock engine, with 170 whp, and supercharge it at 5 psi with a "real one" and get about 200whp (30whp gain) out of it.

then you can take the same stock engine, 170whp, add a non-parasitic electric supercharger and get about 228whp (58whp) @ 5psi.

so tell me how again that an electric charger cant compare to a real one. if you're talking about inefficiency, i agree, it doesnt compare, a real supercharger IS more inefficient.
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[Wildman]

I think I heard about thie 3 motor electric supercharer on tv somewhere or something. Can't remember. While the benefits would be great, mainly the fact that it would be cheaper, let alone the HP, I would think that that would put a heavy strain on the whole electrical system. But if they have found a way around it, then maybe this electric SC dream would finally become a viable performance option. Ive never seen a successful electric SC, but if this guy can come up with one, then thats great. Still too early for me to throw around any judgements on the product, but I will keep an open mind.

[FormulaNERD]

yea, he uses military spec batteries in the trunk, they're lightweight, he also uses two up front and removes the heavy ass car battery, so he's not adding too much weight in the end.

there isnt really any strain on the electrical system, i mean, the batteries charge off of the alternator, but they only pull so much from what the alt can put out, he reccomends a higher amp alt for quicker charging, and says it's possible with the right equipment to get a 1:1 discharge:recharge rate.

also during boost the alternator is bypassed completely, so there is no draw from it, and the batterys are completely discharging, and not trying to recharge any.

again, this is more like a nos replacement, push button for 15 seconds (or more if you got money for batteries) of fame. and for the nos enthusiast, you know how expensive nos can become (refills) imagine "refilling" the batteries in the staging lane waiting for your next race.

as a drag racer i can safely say that this system is for me. i'm not a ricer, and dont care for constant power on my commute to work, the alero owns to begin with.

[FormulaNERD]

oh, and in a v6 avenger he had all the batteries up front, he said it was pretty sweet cause it added traction, and he could hook up like nothin on street tires.

he took a stock older altima (98 i think)AUTO and took it from 17.8-18 quarter mile, and brought it down to 15.1 or something, with just 5psi i believe... pretty impressive. no other mods.

On Saturday we finished the ESC-400â„¢ installation on our Nissan Altima 4-CYL, and man, this thing SMOKES! We're burning the tires all the way through 1st gear on an auto-trans, 4,000LB slug. We're scheduling dynos ASAP and can't wait to see the results

Well, the good news is that our Nissan Altima 4-CYL yielded three awesome runs in a row, climbing from a 105HP max stock to a 184HP peak with the ESC-400â„¢ (70HP avg. HP). All three were nearly identical, which proves the consistency of our system

[alerored04]

if it works the way formula explains it it sounds like it could work fairly well. Now to find a test car! Volunteers??

[FormulaNERD]

oh, and if anyone in the miami area wants a ride in the altima, he'll show you how stock it is, and take you for a spin, and when i say spin, there's alot of burnt rubber involved. hehe.

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by alerored04@Nov 23 2004, 07:12 PM
if it works the way formula explains it it sounds like it could work fairly well. Now to find a test car! Volunteers??

the kit in production is for "smaller engines" <2.8l. but he has a larger one coming out soon... and we wont need a test car, the kit is almost completely universal, and compares to installing a high end stereo system.

it sounds good its just the way he puts it there is a serious drain on the electrical system.........and its more like a nitrous system than it is a supercharger........and the fact that it cant be run constantly just sucks. i dunno about you guys but if there was a way to run a low boost of say 30 horses consistently, and then track days bump it up to 70 that you can do on runs and then recharge it that seems more realistic to me. id be happy with a 30 horse gain that i could constantly use that maybe only activated at WOT compared to having this and once you use it, gotta let it recharge..........like set it up with switches to where you can turn two motors off and run 1 for a 30 horse constant setting, flip a switch and its set of 70 horse short span runs.......

tell me what u guys think

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by bigd6983@Nov 23 2004, 07:19 PM
it sounds good its just the way he puts it there is a serious drain on the electrical system.........and its more like a nitrous system than it is a supercharger........and the fact that it cant be run constantly just sucks. i dunno about you guys but if there was a way to run a low boost of say 30 horses consistently, and then track days bump it up to 70 that you can do on runs and then recharge it that seems more realistic to me. id be happy with a 30 horse gain that i could constantly use that maybe only activated at WOT compared to having this and once you use it, gotta let it recharge..........like set it up with switches to where you can turn two motors off and run 1 for a 30 horse constant setting, flip a switch and its set of 70 horse short span runs.......

tell me what u guys think

ok, first of all there's really no SIGNIFICANT strain on the electrical system. during "boost" the alternator is bypassed. and during recharge the military spec batteries he uses only pull from the alternator what the alternator can put out.

yes, it's more like nitrous, and i'm pretty sure i said that.

your idea also sounds good... 30hp constant, 70@full drain. and it doesnt seem unrealistic. maybe he'll take this idea into consideration.

Haven't read through the whole thing as of yet, but just wanna throw this into the mix:
http://60degreev6.com/modules.php?op=modlo...cf7ae62f811a60b

[FormulaNERD]

good link, but reading is also good... that link is irrelevant for the most part, because this system doesnt run off of the alternator.

hmmm, 6 lightweight batteries, at 668 CCA each... that's 4008 CCA's at the push of a button, i'm not sure what that equates to in the scheme of things, but that's alot of power.

good post though.

Originally posted by Grouch@Nov 23 2004, 07:05 PM
Haven't read through the whole thing as of yet, but just wanna throw this into the mix:
http://60degreev6.com/modules.php?op=modlo...cf7ae62f811a60b

i like the link grouch and its appropriate, all though i love the design of a electric supercharger cause when perfected it should have no drain on the car to produce boost, unlike turbos(backpressure + heat) and supercharger (takes hp to make hp)......

and formula the only questions id have about my theory is the way his set up is would be would just one motor going be sufficient for a 30 horse gain or would it need 2 motors? and would not running all 3 motors create some kind of disfigured air flow from the other stand still motor(s).......

i think this idea is a more realisitic street idea, when i say street most of us alero owners drive our aleros daily, and having this type of boost at our fingertips yet not would bug the crap out of me.....

shoot the idea at him, see what he thinks......see if he can do some runs, find out what the amperage draw off one motor is, off two motors.....

I think with a highly rated battery, upgraded alternator and wiring, this could be reliable without having to add unnecessary equipment in the trunk which i think would be a key point in selling a lot of these.....

my bad for double posting

[FormulaNERD]

i'm looking for some of your answers bigd, i saw them yesterday... for now check this out. stock 2.4 altima... esc on, then esc off.



auto v6 dodge avenger. ESC @5.5 psi, headers, 3" exhaust, 60 mm throttle body = 96.5 hp gain..... at 5.5psi. did i already mention that that's at only 5.5psi?

dyno charts here....

http://www.boosthead.com/installation_docs/doc24.htm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...sspagename=WDVW
explain to me why something like this would not work, if it were to creat 2.1 lbs of boost thats enough for 20 horses or so......if it worked, has anybody on here actually tried it before we all say no it wont work?? and if someone has maybe a more power would be a fix to this problem.....

and im sure there was a way that we could get this hooked up to our electronic throttle or put a switch next to it that would open it at WOT.....

[Vtolds]

Some of the things that formualNERD has said make sence to me and kinda makes me look at them differently. But I still think it aint worth the money becuase of having to get specail batteries and then trunk relocation kits and all that wiring and the possibility of having to get a Larger AMP alternator. If you only wasnt 20 to 30 hp at full throttle than this is for you but if you want 80 hp without having to flip a switch just get a Parasitic Supercharger as Formula called it.

this thing can gain up to 60 horses which is a lot for the price of it......."parasitic" superchargers are only a shade more then that but cosr a couple thousand more.........i agree, i dont like the fact that it doesnt last like nitrous, i like the electric part of it, easier to deal with than turbos and superchargers, hopefully it all gets figured out and we come up with usefullness of this idea....there is a lot of tweeking to be done though.......

[FormulaNERD]

yea, you're right, and geoff of TKT says that in is faq.

you're basically getting more HP, at half the price, and the con is a few 15 second bursts.

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by bigd6983@Nov 23 2004, 09:21 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...sspagename=WDVW
explain to me why something like this would not work, if it were to creat 2.1 lbs of boost thats enough for 20 horses or so......if it worked, has anybody on here actually tried it before we all say no it wont work?? and if someone has maybe a more power would be a fix to this problem.....

and im sure there was a way that we could get this hooked up to our electronic throttle or put a switch next to it that would open it at WOT.....

because that is a cheap fan, and TKT sells eaton superchargers.

his system is the only patented system, and it was patented with no questions asked, that NEVER happens for anything.

at WOT your intake is sucking more air in than that one is putting out, so in fact that is making your hp go down... at wot.

[Vtolds]

Back when I researched Electric Superchargers I saw one with, I think it was 3 fans and they turned on the minute you went full throttle and didnt shut off till you let off the gas they even had a cool video to go with it of them blowing crap around with the fans.