Stop worrying about relays and spark plugs and o2 sensors! Pull the spark plugs, see if there is water in there! If the plugs arnt DAMAGED then u can dry them off and reinstLl. And your fuel pump relay would have nothing to do omwoth the car not cranking. Also of any water is between you ranging and upstream o2, it will just go through the cat anyways. One gallon of gas into the engine equals one gallon of water out the tailpipe. So it's not like water is unusual in there!
__________________
The dumbass that shows up randomly 10 years after selling the car.
Nobody asked the most important question: Was it fresh water or salt water.
Fresh water, yeah pull plugs and crank. You already did everything else. Salt water, don't bother, the salt will eat away at everything and the car is pretty much effed.
Talked to a lot of guys the spring after Superstorm Sandy at Raceway park. There was 25,000 cars at RP all from NYC. Exotics, antiques, DD's, you name it. All salt water damaged, all taken off and sent to the big junkyard in the sky. Then a few guys had flood cars from fresh water. Interiors had to be ripped out, dash boards, etc, but after drying out, these cars are back on the road. One car, a converitble, was full of sand, all the way up to the doors. That car had to weigh a few tons!
Not saying that's what you have here, but just to give you an idea
Nobody asked the most important question: Was it fresh water or salt water.
Fresh water, yeah pull plugs and crank. You already did everything else. Salt water, don't bother, the salt will eat away at everything and the car is pretty much effed.
Talked to a lot of guys the spring after Superstorm Sandy at Raceway park. There was 25,000 cars at RP all from NYC. Exotics, antiques, DD's, you name it. All salt water damaged, all taken off and sent to the big junkyard in the sky. Then a few guys had flood cars from fresh water. Interiors had to be ripped out, dash boards, etc, but after drying out, these cars are back on the road. One car, a converitble, was full of sand, all the way up to the doors. That car had to weigh a few tons!
Not saying that's what you have here, but just to give you an idea
But if he gets it quick enough it might be fine, the engine itself that is, i hit 6"~ or so of salt marsh water at 70Mph with my old alero when we had torrential rain a couple years back (before you say it, yes it was midnight and there was no lighting, all the power was out) and all that ended up happening (after my CAI sucked a ton of water and the car nearly stalled) was my upstream O2 sensor corroded and gave a null reading. the engine was fine for another year or so after that until natural causes got to the rest of the car. I think for his location and how it happened i think it was fresh water and he should be okay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a.graham52
Lurk much?
Nah, scrapped the Alero and bought a Fiesta ST. Looking for another Ho' though.
Well that sucks... yet again a valuable lesson in not driving thru water lol.
Well if it wasn't for the Honda stalling or the damn truck coming my way I would've made it. Lol.
__________________ 2004 GL1 2.2L Ecotec 160k mi. (Olympic White)
8000k 35w HID's
30/30 LED Switchback Turn Signals
JVC kw-hdr720 Double Din Head Unit
Polk Audio DXi691 Coaxial & DXi461 Plate Speakers
White/Glossified Plasti-Dipped OEM 15" Rims
Red Painted Brake Calipers & Drums CarDomain home page is pretty much before pix.
The after pix haven't been taken yet... Still under construction
Stop worrying about relays and spark plugs and o2 sensors! Pull the spark plugs, see if there is water in there! If the plugs arnt DAMAGED then u can dry them off and reinstLl. And your fuel pump relay would have nothing to do omwoth the car not cranking. Also of any water is between you ranging and upstream o2, it will just go through the cat anyways. One gallon of gas into the engine equals one gallon of water out the tailpipe. So it's not like water is unusual in there!
So what you're saying is I can just go ahead and crank the engine after pulling the plugs and watch the water show. After that put the plugs back and the car should start right up?
Do I have to worry about the transmission/fluid or anything like water going back up the exhaust?
__________________ 2004 GL1 2.2L Ecotec 160k mi. (Olympic White)
8000k 35w HID's
30/30 LED Switchback Turn Signals
JVC kw-hdr720 Double Din Head Unit
Polk Audio DXi691 Coaxial & DXi461 Plate Speakers
White/Glossified Plasti-Dipped OEM 15" Rims
Red Painted Brake Calipers & Drums CarDomain home page is pretty much before pix.
The after pix haven't been taken yet... Still under construction
Nobody asked the most important question: Was it fresh water or salt water.
Fresh water, yeah pull plugs and crank. You already did everything else. Salt water, don't bother, the salt will eat away at everything and the car is pretty much effed.
Talked to a lot of guys the spring after Superstorm Sandy at Raceway park. There was 25,000 cars at RP all from NYC. Exotics, antiques, DD's, you name it. All salt water damaged, all taken off and sent to the big junkyard in the sky. Then a few guys had flood cars from fresh water. Interiors had to be ripped out, dash boards, etc, but after drying out, these cars are back on the road. One car, a converitble, was full of sand, all the way up to the doors. That car had to weigh a few tons!
Not saying that's what you have here, but just to give you an idea
Fresh water, I live in Chicago. And the front carpet is soaked. So I know it's gonna get moldy. How would I go about that? Just replace the carpet? I would think that could get quite costly.
__________________ 2004 GL1 2.2L Ecotec 160k mi. (Olympic White)
8000k 35w HID's
30/30 LED Switchback Turn Signals
JVC kw-hdr720 Double Din Head Unit
Polk Audio DXi691 Coaxial & DXi461 Plate Speakers
White/Glossified Plasti-Dipped OEM 15" Rims
Red Painted Brake Calipers & Drums CarDomain home page is pretty much before pix.
The after pix haven't been taken yet... Still under construction
I've been having electrical problems with this car to begin with because the top of my windshield was peeled back and water running down my A-pillar right into my fuse panels of my dash. But I've gotten my windshield resealed recently and haven't had any problems since. Where is the PCM located? Is that under the passenger side dash under the glove box or is that the BCM?
I just had my alternator and battery replaced like 3 months ago. I will be pissed if it is that. But I don't know because my lights & radio work fine it's just not turning over.
Is that the sound I hear when I turn the key on then off? Fuel pump prime? As I turn the key, ACC (lights & radio go on), On, Start (*click*like it wants to start then nothing, lights go off, everything dead) turning all the way OFF (***beeping then buzzing/vibrating***)
Where is the rail located? for fuel pressure?
PCM is in the engine as far as I know. the BCM is inside.
No, that's far from it. If everything is going dead as you hold it on start and it makes a CLACKING noise (as if the starter has power but the engine won't turn over) then it's a battery/alternator problem... and it can end up being both because alternators and water don't mix. The alternator on the Ecotec is in an odd position. It's under the throttle body... or at least, that's where the cables for the alt are.
If you hold the key on start for 10-15 secs, it should make a nasty sound which is reminiscent of a "clac clac clac clac" in fast pace. If this is true, it's the battery or alternator. This is of course, assuming the battery has enough juice to even flicker the lights. Sometimes, the car will just make a softer click noise and you can hold it forever in start, but you have no lights at all, not even the odometer will be on. I think this is the situation that applies to you. I have a feeling because you've had electrical problems before, you may have issues somewhere between the battery, the alternator, and the cables. I know the cables on my Camaro have acid corrosion all over the battery area because this car has gotten wet with coolant before by the battery area, and the previous owner didn't tighten the battery terminals right. I know have to figure out how to deal with it.
If you can source another GM battery, swap it and see what happens next. TAKE OUT THE SPARK PLUGS BEFORE ANYTHING... IF that water circulates through the engine, you will damage it. That way, if you can get it to crank and turn over, you can drain the water as well.
If you can't source another GM battery, then take it to a parts store and have the battery load tested. Pretty sure it's dead from what you say, but better safe than sorry.
Also, the fuel pump priming is NOT a clicking noise, it's a quiet hum that you have to be paying attention to when you put the car on the on position. The hum usually lasts about 5 to 7 seconds. You may have to have a friend put it on the on position and listen to it by the rear driver's side tire.
The fuel rail pressure relief valve is near the oil cap.
It's a schrader valve that looks similar to a tire valve stem. You can get a small flathead screwdriver once you take off the small cap and press the little pin inside of the valve in. Fuel should spray out for 3 seconds. If the spray is weak or very little fuel actually comes out, then you have a fuel issue as well.
Regardless of whether or not this is an issue, you should check the fuel pressure just to make sure it's not something serious, but I'm fairly certain you need to start with the battery first and go from there. If you do your own work, I would suggest testing the alternator as well. You have to get it out and take it to the parts store. They will tell you whether or not it's a good alt.
I should also mention, take out the relay for the fuel pump when you crank the engine to purge the water. You don't want to exchange flooding water for gasoline in this situation because then the engine will have a hard time normalizing and then you might fry your cat with all the unburnt fuel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiLo
Fresh water, I live in Chicago. And the front carpet is soaked. So I know it's gonna get moldy. How would I go about that? Just replace the carpet? I would think that could get quite costly.
stockinteriors.com sells premolded carpet. You can also look for a used carpet in the junkyard.
If you want to play your luck, purple power and pressurized water. That might help. This of course would mean you taking out the seats and pulling the carpet out. I would also recommend changing the jute padding. They sell that at home depot. Just cut to size.
PCM is in the engine as far as I know. the BCM is inside.
No, that's far from it. If everything is going dead as you hold it on start and it makes a CLACKING noise (as if the starter has power but the engine won't turn over) then it's a battery/alternator problem... and it can end up being both because alternators and water don't mix. The alternator on the Ecotec is in an odd position. It's under the throttle body... or at least, that's where the cables for the alt are.
If you hold the key on start for 10-15 secs, it should make a nasty sound which is reminiscent of a "clac clac clac clac" in fast pace. If this is true, it's the battery or alternator. This is of course, assuming the battery has enough juice to even flicker the lights. Sometimes, the car will just make a softer click noise and you can hold it forever in start, but you have no lights at all, not even the odometer will be on. I think this is the situation that applies to you. I have a feeling because you've had electrical problems before, you may have issues somewhere between the battery, the alternator, and the cables. I know the cables on my Camaro have acid corrosion all over the battery area because this car has gotten wet with coolant before by the battery area, and the previous owner didn't tighten the battery terminals right. I know have to figure out how to deal with it.
If you can source another GM battery, swap it and see what happens next. TAKE OUT THE SPARK PLUGS BEFORE ANYTHING... IF that water circulates through the engine, you will damage it. That way, if you can get it to crank and turn over, you can drain the water as well.
If you can't source another GM battery, then take it to a parts store and have the battery load tested. Pretty sure it's dead from what you say, but better safe than sorry.
Also, the fuel pump priming is NOT a clicking noise, it's a quiet hum that you have to be paying attention to when you put the car on the on position. The hum usually lasts about 5 to 7 seconds. You may have to have a friend put it on the on position and listen to it by the rear driver's side tire.
The fuel rail pressure relief valve is near the oil cap.
It's a schrader valve that looks similar to a tire valve stem. You can get a small flathead screwdriver once you take off the small cap and press the little pin inside of the valve in. Fuel should spray out for 3 seconds. If the spray is weak or very little fuel actually comes out, then you have a fuel issue as well.
Regardless of whether or not this is an issue, you should check the fuel pressure just to make sure it's not something serious, but I'm fairly certain you need to start with the battery first and go from there. If you do your own work, I would suggest testing the alternator as well. You have to get it out and take it to the parts store. They will tell you whether or not it's a good alt.
I should also mention, take out the relay for the fuel pump when you crank the engine to purge the water. You don't want to exchange flooding water for gasoline in this situation because then the engine will have a hard time normalizing and then you might fry your cat with all the unburnt fuel.
stockinteriors.com sells premolded carpet. You can also look for a used carpet in the junkyard.
If you want to play your luck, purple power and pressurized water. That might help. This of course would mean you taking out the seats and pulling the carpet out. I would also recommend changing the jute padding. They sell that at home depot. Just cut to size.
I see someone is forgetting about the pressure of water...he doesnt have to have a power problem if it is hydrolocked....the water between the piston and the valves are going to keep the valves from opening and without them opening a) timing chain cant turn because of the pressure and b) the water between the head and piston will keep the piston from moving
So as I try to go around him and this truck is coming my way and splashes even more water my way then I get stuck in the damn flood water. There's maybe 10-12" I'm stuck in.
And the reason you thought that your car would make it through was???
No, that's far from it. If everything is going dead as you hold it on start and it makes a CLACKING noise (as if the starter has power but the engine won't turn over) then it's a battery/alternator problem... and it can end up being both because alternators and water don't mix. The alternator on the Ecotec is in an odd position. It's under the throttle body... or at least, that's where the cables for the alt are.
no clacking noise at all so i don't think its the alternator and the battery is good because all the lights on the dash, the radio, and the headlights are fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas Escobar
If you hold the key on start for 10-15 secs, it should make a nasty sound which is reminiscent of a "clac clac clac clac" in fast pace. If this is true, it's the battery or alternator. This is of course, assuming the battery has enough juice to even flicker the lights. Sometimes, the car will just make a softer click noise and you can hold it forever in start, but you have no lights at all, not even the odometer will be on. I think this is the situation that applies to you. I have a feeling because you've had electrical problems before, you may have issues somewhere between the battery, the alternator, and the cables. I know the cables on my Camaro have acid corrosion all over the battery area because this car has gotten wet with coolant before by the battery area, and the previous owner didn't tighten the battery terminals right. I know have to figure out how to deal with it.
this situation does not apply to me as stated above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas Escobar
TAKE OUT THE SPARK PLUGS BEFORE ANYTHING... IF that water circulates through the engine, you will damage it. That way, if you can get it to crank and turn over, you can drain the water as well.
i took out the spark plugs and yes they are wet and burnt. i also checked to see the piston position with a long screw driver and sure the screw driver was wet but also going from left to right starting with 1.
1 piston position is down. 2 piston position is up. 3 piston position is up same as 2. 4 piston position is down same as 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas Escobar
Also, the fuel pump priming is NOT a clicking noise, it's a quiet hum that you have to be paying attention to when you put the car on the on position. The hum usually lasts about 5 to 7 seconds. You may have to have a friend put it on the on position and listen to it by the rear driver's side tire.
yes i do hear the hum sound. i first said it was like a buzzing sound when i was giving my description.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas Escobar
The fuel rail pressure relief valve is near the oil cap.
It's a schrader valve that looks similar to a tire valve stem. You can get a small flathead screwdriver once you take off the small cap and press the little pin inside of the valve in. Fuel should spray out for 3 seconds. If the spray is weak or very little fuel actually comes out, then you have a fuel issue as well.
i have not tried to do this yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas Escobar
If you do your own work, I would suggest testing the alternator as well. You have to get it out and take it to the parts store. They will tell you whether or not it's a good alt.
i don't think its the alternator. to be honest with the way how this is going i think its the starter or the PCM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas Escobar
I should also mention, take out the relay for the fuel pump when you crank the engine to purge the water. You don't want to exchange flooding water for gasoline in this situation because then the engine will have a hard time normalizing and then you might fry your cat with all the unburnt fuel
i did this as well when i took the spark plugs out. but as i said, it won't turn over so i don't think anything is mixing at this point anyway.
The PCM does what exactly? is that the main computer chip is that why you need to program it? and do i have to take it to the dealer so they can program it?
__________________ 2004 GL1 2.2L Ecotec 160k mi. (Olympic White)
8000k 35w HID's
30/30 LED Switchback Turn Signals
JVC kw-hdr720 Double Din Head Unit
Polk Audio DXi691 Coaxial & DXi461 Plate Speakers
White/Glossified Plasti-Dipped OEM 15" Rims
Red Painted Brake Calipers & Drums CarDomain home page is pretty much before pix.
The after pix haven't been taken yet... Still under construction
The carpet, like the carpet in your house, has padding under it. Though an automotive grade, it will still need to be removed and dried out at the very least.
I would take it out and leave it in the sun for a few days. Put the seats back in and drive the car without the carpet for that time, if you do not have another car.
I would try that first BEFORE putting the money out for new carpet
i don't think its the alternator. to be honest with the way how this is going i think its the starter or the PCM.
i did this as well when i took the spark plugs out. but as i said, it won't turn over so i don't think anything is mixing at this point anyway.
The PCM does what exactly? is that the main computer chip is that why you need to program it? and do i have to take it to the dealer so they can program it?
The PCM is the command center of the engine. It will tell the engine when it needs fuel, when it needs air, when does it need to adjust it's a/f mix ratio, etc. Without it, the engine won't even start.
Also, if you can, take out the starter and take it to get it tested at the parts store. I know Advance Auto and Auto Zone can do this, but not so sure about pepboys and the others.
As far as the dealer thing, you don't necessarily have to if you get it from another 2004 Ecotec N body BUT you might have VIN issues. I think this is a question better suited for Milzy or Ben @ WOT Tech.
I know you can call up milzy and ask them this and they'll gladly help you out.
As far as the dealer thing, you don't necessarily have to if you get it from another 2004 Ecotec N body BUT you might have VIN issues. I think this is a question better suited for Milzy or Ben @ WOT Tech.
I know you can call up milzy and ask them this and they'll gladly help you out.
oh ok. i will have to give them a call...
this is very frustrating. part of my frustration is that i work a split shift so i only have about 1 good hour to try to work on the car in the morning before work cuz when i get out and its already dark outside. the other part is that the car is in my moms complex parking lot not in my driveway, no garage. 5 days no car! i hate this sh!t
__________________ 2004 GL1 2.2L Ecotec 160k mi. (Olympic White)
8000k 35w HID's
30/30 LED Switchback Turn Signals
JVC kw-hdr720 Double Din Head Unit
Polk Audio DXi691 Coaxial & DXi461 Plate Speakers
White/Glossified Plasti-Dipped OEM 15" Rims
Red Painted Brake Calipers & Drums CarDomain home page is pretty much before pix.
The after pix haven't been taken yet... Still under construction
Your starter does have a solinoid (very rugged relay) attached to it. U could try jumping the two large studies with a screw driver to see if the starter turns. Do this with no plugs in it. Make sure the car is in park or neutral. Doing this will bypass anything electrical and will determine if there is a mAcanical issue within the engine at this point.
Untill you get the thing to crank, nothing fuel related or ignition (spark plugs and wires) won't matter. Doesn't matter if you have fuel or not... If it ain't cranking it ain't gonna mater
__________________
The dumbass that shows up randomly 10 years after selling the car.
So I've been fortunate enough to use my mother's car until I can figure out what the hell is wrong with my car. I'm determined to do it myself since I can't afford to let a shop do it but at the same time I don't have enough time during the day to just knock this out. Now I've been doing here and there so this is what I've accomplished....... I've gotten most of the water to drain from the throttle body but I can see that there is more water leading to the engine. When I flash a light into the spark plug holes I only see water in the 2nd piston, the other pistons are dry. I was checking the fuse panels inside the car and everything seems to be OK.
I checked the fuse box in the engine bay and I noticed that there isn't a starter relay. Is that normal? I would think that I need that relay for a reason, right?
__________________ 2004 GL1 2.2L Ecotec 160k mi. (Olympic White)
8000k 35w HID's
30/30 LED Switchback Turn Signals
JVC kw-hdr720 Double Din Head Unit
Polk Audio DXi691 Coaxial & DXi461 Plate Speakers
White/Glossified Plasti-Dipped OEM 15" Rims
Red Painted Brake Calipers & Drums CarDomain home page is pretty much before pix.
The after pix haven't been taken yet... Still under construction
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