MAP sensor and adapter

[unchained01]

Oh ok I see. And I guess you know you can get TT. From Powrtuner site. Jus make sure you get latest version. For 2 bar map support. Greg has got me thinking about piggybacking a megasquirt for some of the timing/fueling/map functions so before I finish this motor build I guess I am going to contact them and see what's realistically possible so I tale it your going 3500 or found a way to mount that whipple ??? IIRC. The 3500 plenum has a prob with leaning out number 5 and 6 Due to distance from the inlet.

[Shiwnath]

Originally Posted by kwhauck

Map sensor pigtail for 3400-3500 sensor connection, I have like 3 3500 map sensors, and I do need tiny tuners eventually, plus I was gonna go back and read some of Greg's tuning posts....

http://grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85611
This is a good read for 2 bar MAP sensor tuning.

[kwhauck]

Originally Posted by unchained01

Oh ok I see. And I guess you know you can get TT. From Powrtuner site. Jus make sure you get latest version. For 2 bar map support. Greg has got me thinking about piggybacking a megasquirt for some of the timing/fueling/map functions so before I finish this motor build I guess I am going to contact them and see what's realistically possible so I tale it your going 3500 or found a way to mount that whipple ??? IIRC. The 3500 plenum has a prob with leaning out number 5 and 6 Due to distance from the inlet.

I know how i'm going to mount the whipple, need to finish up some other stuff first including getting the rear header reworked, and finish installing this equinox 3500 UIM.....

[unchained01]

check out 60degreev6 too Brad is making some progress on a LIM with new CAD update

[kwhauck]

I know he is making progress, but because the way the LIM is designed and going into the heads, without custom heads I just don't see a good way for everything to fit, ESPECIALLY if you want an integrated intercooler.....

[unchained01]

yeah kyle thats a very tall order for that and laminovas incorporated too

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by AleroB888

You can get by with a stock 3400 PCM at 10-12 lbs boost, provided your boost control is very accurate and fail-safe. The results won't be optimum, but still allows for pretty good performance. 15 pounds is pushing it past the limit, with real potential for damage, unless you dial back the timing.

I have not kept up with the latest stuff available on HP Tuners. Tinytuner may have more options, though.

We've ran I think 23psi on a turbo 3400 using 3400 pcm and map a few years ago . MAP isn't really crucial for boost since it's only used in case of MAF failure, just imperative that MAF is working perfectly, and well tuned.

[MMGT1]

Hey Mike, I was hitting 10,400hz in mine man with 14lbs on your stage II build... How the hell did you use a 3400 PCM and MAF for 23!! LOL I was so close to MAF fail it scared the crap out of me. **Mike would know this but those that don't, a 3400 MAF peggs out at 10,500hz! I was 100hz away from holy crap
And because I hadn't seen this in a while...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvHyjq512dE

[AleroB888]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

We've ran I think 23psi on a turbo 3400 using 3400 pcm and map a few years ago . MAP isn't really crucial for boost since it's only used in case of MAF failure, just imperative that MAF is working perfectly, and well tuned.

You can do that, but you would have a whole (missing) section of the Spark tables that could not be optimized, past 0.92 g/cyl. If any KR is generated in that range, you could not tell exactly at what boost level it occurred.

If no KR is detected, and acceptable WOT power is achieved with the limited stock timing table, of course that's workable.

But I think you'd be leaving some performance on the "table" haha, pun intended

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by AleroB888

You can do that, but you would have a whole (missing) section of the Spark tables that could not be optimized, past 0.92 g/cyl. If any KR is generated in that range, you could not tell exactly at what boost level it occurred.

If no KR is detected, and acceptable WOT power is achieved with the limited stock timing table, of course that's workable.

But I think you'd be leaving some performance on the "table" haha, pun intended

Once you have a decent amount of power, it doesn't take very much to get past .92 g/cyl, so you're already in that region anyways. I had my laptop stolen out of my truck last year and lost a lot of the scans we had for people's cars over the past few years prior, but I did happen to find a scan of one of my race car passes, and it clearly shows the g/cyl exceeding .92 at 4000 rpm, just .891 seconds after launch. This is with the T67 and 10psi of boost. In this same run, you can also see it hit over 10,900 Hz on the MAF. The MAF I was using was a LT1/LS1 (aluminum) MAF, but it was running off a 3x00 pcm. I don't remember if that was with or without the mini-AFC, but pretty sure it had mini-AFC. If you have a value set at the bottom corner of the spark table, and want to modify it to be something else, you can always modify the RPM threshold and commanded spark after that threshold to command a certain amount of spark after whatever rpm you input as the threshold, but personally, I use this value as a spark-controlled rev-limiter. The bottom line is once you go past a certain point, spark is constant, but that doesn't mean you're losing power because of it.

Boost is pretty constant after you've spooled the turbo, thanks to the wastegate bleeding off any excess pressure, so assuming you know how much boost you've got the system adjusted to, you should know exactly how much boost you have when x amount of knock happens. I don't know anyone who has a boost controller who doesn't have a boost gauge of some kind to see their actual boost. Also the biggest chance of knock to occur happens not at max rpm, but at torque peak.

Paul, we use a custom mini-AFC to exceed the limits of the stock MAF. All of our turbo kits we sell for the 3100 and 3400 use the stock MAF sensor, and those that wish to exceed the limits of the stock MAF (which is somewhere around 350whp with our setup) use the mini-AFC we make to scale back the MAF frequency to give it more range.

[MMGT1]

When it comes to building these engines Milzy, your still my idol buddy.... keep on truckin' bro!

[AleroB888]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

Once you have a decent amount of power, it doesn't take very much to get past .92 g/cyl, so you're already in that region anyways. I had my laptop stolen out of my truck last year and lost a lot of the scans we had for people's cars over the past few years prior, but I did happen to find a scan of one of my race car passes, and it clearly shows the g/cyl exceeding .92 at 4000 rpm, just .891 seconds after launch. This is with the T67 and 10psi of boost. In this same run, you can also see it hit over 10,900 Hz on the MAF. ........

I just looked at one of my last scans.... it hit 0.92 @ 2879 rpm, in 0.873 seconds after launch..... Only about 10,400 on the MAF, though

[MMGT1]

Just had a look at the last scan I did of my boosted Grand Am and was actually hitting 11,256hz @ 6,000rpm... 10,500Hz @ 5400rpm
I hit 104kpa @ 2900rpm...lol
336.62g/sec through the MAF
120% Duty on 36lb injectors.. OUCH!!
under 3 second 60mph to 85mph w/ 17* timing... ahhhh yea...

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by MMGT1

Just had a look at the last scan I did of my boosted Grand Am and was actually hitting 11,256hz @ 6,000rpm... 10,500Hz @ 5400rpm
I hit 104kpa @ 2900rpm...lol
336.62g/sec through the MAF
120% Duty on 36lb injectors.. OUCH!!
under 3 second 60mph to 85mph w/ 17* timing... ahhhh yea...

not sure how your injectors were open more than 100% of the time. sounds like it's time for 60lb injectors.

[xXManwhoreXx]

Talk about fuel cut lololol

[MMGT1]

That's the YIKES factor! Ive seen many 3800's go to 110% tuned and they are actually ok, mine... not so much... lol Leaned out to 13:1 just before shift!

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by MMGT1

That's the YIKES factor! Ive seen many 3800's go to 110% tuned and they are actually ok, mine... not so much... lol Leaned out to 13:1 just before shift!

what fuel pump do you have?

[MMGT1]

Bone stock Mike, was going to install your walbro 255 and didn't get to before it was sold. What I wanted to finish it was this:
C6 Card Style Maf in a 4" tube w/ paxon honeycomb(sitting on shelf in garage actually)
60lb Green Tops
Walbro 255
3400 Stall for a 4T45E

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by MMGT1

Bone stock Mike, was going to install your walbro 255 and didn't get to before it was sold. What I wanted to finish it was this:
C6 Card Style Maf in a 4" tube w/ paxon honeycomb(sitting on shelf in garage actually)
60lb Green Tops
Walbro 255
3400 Stall for a 4T45E

I wouldn't do a bigger MAF. When you buy it, you have to buy one bigger than what you need, and as it gets bigger, you trade resolution for more max airflow. If you get the mini-AFC we use, you can essentially adjust the max airflow number so that you can achieve the minimum amount of max airflow you need while maximizing the resolution.

I usually keep fuel pumps on the shelf, both Walbro and the Aeromotive Stealth pumps. There is a good chance your fuel restriction issue could also be the stock fuel pump.

[sleepyalero]

How much are your aero stealth pumps mike? I want that for the turbo build