C2's Alero Updates - Page 18

dbral · 11-16-2023, 06:54 PM

Dang man, that sucks and no telling what is up. Yeah man, maybe something stuck under the pedal/assembly or whatever under the dash or something maybe picked up from the road caught in the clutch assembly? The intermittent side of it is crazy for sure.

Remember reading a post on here that someone had a clutch pedal issue maybe similar to yours and they just said he!! with it and pushed the pedal down as hard as they could and the return spring popped out lol! Best wishes and hoping for a quick fix bud.

There have been rwd conversions that have turned out nice. There is a cav and a beretta on youtube / web right now. They are both v-8 cars w/manual trans. The only downside for me is that they were unable to keep the HVAC at the time but maybe your 4cyl set-up would allow more room to work that in? No idea, out of my skill set for sure, but would love to try something like that before i die. He!!, would love to just simply have the tools in my shop to try something like that lol. IDK, would keep persevering like you are and rolling with the punches. The car def. has flashes of brilliance. LOL BMW

Edit; would be hard for me not to put the alero on the backburner and turbo that toyota truck..Choices lol!

[ion] C2 · 11-17-2023, 01:25 PM

Shit.

They say my differential is broken. That's why the driver axle is stuck in the trans.

Guess the transmission shop I paid $1,000 to install my $780 LSD didn't do it right. The transmission looked mint inside, had 200 miles on it, and the LSD was a brand new Quaife unit. I even dropped off the factory service manual for this particular transmission because it has all the specs and preload settings etc. but they were like "we probably don't need that" which was a bit of a red flag but I got the implication that they already have the specs/info needed on hand. I know it's supposed to be installed a certain way and requires specialized tools to do it right. There's some kind of preload on the bearings and such you need to have perfect.

I also was hearing what seemed like excessive gear noise when coasting/light throttle lately. Bet it was noise from the output shaft/differential. I saw a forum thread about the same kind of symptom I experienced and the comments were "Sounds like your shop screwed up the pinion preload."

So now what? Install my other 145,000 mile transmission? No LSD sucks. I never even got to utilize it to its potential, no burnouts, no twisty mountain driving.

dbral · 11-17-2023, 06:28 PM

Dammit, Thought Quaife offered a lifetime warranty on those? Would wait for picture proof from the shop as to what exactly failed in there maybe

What did they find with the intermittent clutch issue?

[ion] C2 · 11-17-2023, 08:01 PM

I'm going to tow it to the transmission shop and have them identify what went wrong. Everyone knows things happen, and it's hard to pin the cause of whatever went wrong 100% on the trans shop, unless it's obvious something wasn't assembled correctly. I'm not sure how we'll be able to discern that it was assembly error vs. excess torque and inevitable damage from 550 lb-ft. I always ease into boost, I'm easy on it, no launching or wheel hopping.

I remember reading Quaife supposedly has never had a failure of their units themselves. I'm assuming they didn't secure it in position properly and it moved around, not engaging the output shaft gear properly, hence the loose feel and whining gear noise I would have recently.

[ion] C2 · 11-29-2023, 01:19 PM

Finally, an update. I towed it to the transmission shop on 11/20. Today (11/29) they put it up in the air and started investigating. They called at first because they were able to hold one wheel and turn the other, and that doesn't make sense to them as an LSD. Basically it makes you think the differential is internally broken since an LSD should well, make the other wheel turn as well eventually. I figured well, it must be broken. UMS said it was funky and the trans shop says the held wheel doesn't turn. I called up the local parts yard that has a 97k mile transmission and ordered it, figuring I'd just have to swap the trans with a stock one for now, but then...

I decided to call Quaife and ask them how I could know whether there's a failure in the differential. They emailed me me a differential checklist. Turns out it's supposed to do that. The shop said the trans fluid was low as when they removed the easy passenger side axle, nothing came out which is unusual if it was filled to the 2.6 qt recommendation. If it was under-filled (to the original factory specification) that would cause the excessive gear noise I was hearing during coasting and such.

I figured well, maybe it was just the CV joints that caused the clunk. Told them to just replace the driver side axle that was stuck, fill it to 2.6 qt and let's see how it works. On their test drive, they think the clunk is just something torquing under load with the engine/trans movement and hitting something, like the charge pipes touching something. I don't think so - I am pretty in tune with my car. So I'll have to look and try to find another source of the clunk. They weren't able/willing to replace the driver axle since it was stuck in the diff, suggested I just drive it for now.

As far as the hydraulic issue with the pedal stopping halfway, apparently it works perfectly fine at the moment. I had Clutch Masters create another billet throw out bearing (number 2 of 2 in existence) and I bought a spare clutch master cylinder and hose setup in order to evaluate how to improve it. I immediately see the "dry-break" plastic stuff UMS was talking about, and can see how that could cause an issue. My plan is to cut and flare the hard line from the master cylinder, and connect a flexible braided hose to the Clutch Masters throw out bearing. I think the Clutch Masters setup is a 2-hose design, which would allow you to make one hose end a bleeder, making it super simple to ensure the whole system is bled. I think that will prevent any weird air-lock occurring in the original plastic configuration.

dbral · 11-30-2023, 07:43 PM

Quote:

They weren't able/willing to replace the driver axle since it was stuck in the diff, suggested I just drive it for now.

Hmmm, well okay. That kinda sucks. Maybe they are just too busy to spend much time with it? Was looking at pics of Quaife diffs. Guessing yours is the Torsen style. If so, those are like little engineering marvels. There is a vid on youtube that explains how it works. lol it is hard for me to wrap my head around completely but i kinda get it and does makes sense that it would act like an open diff during Quaife's test steps. Pretty cool design. Have heard of these for years but never looked into them until now.

lol as maybe a last resort to remove that LH axle, it looks like some Quaife diffs have an open hole all the way through the carrier, (No pin needed because no spider gears needed maybe?) so if you remove the pass. side axle you may be able to drive/tap out the LH axle through that opening using a long brass drift possibly? Maybe have someone on the other side evenly prying out on the axle at the same time too? Should not require a lot of force though... Might want to talk to Quaife about that problem too.

What is the "dry-break" issue with the master cyls. they are finding?

Grrrr, the last "low mileage" f23 that i bought had a grinding / sometimes no shift into 4th. Hope you don't end up needing it, but if you do i hope it's okay

[ion] C2 · 11-30-2023, 09:13 PM

That's what I was thinking, just don't want to break the diff or trans cast aluminum housing though. I'm not convinced 100% it's the axles though.

I drove it back today and unfortunately the clutch hydraulic issue showed up intermittently lol. I made it to like 1/2 mile away from my house and couldn't shift from 1-2, coasted to a stop. I wiggled the clutch hydraulic line and the plastic piece and that seemed to make the pedal work for 2 more presses, allowing me to use 2nd gear to get home.

I hit the brakes hard to see if I could hear any difference in the clunk. It was only on the passenger side this time (and they replaced the passenger axle, so it can't be that). I'm actually thinking it's something with the brakes again, I'm going to do a more thorough inspection.

I'll take some pics of how the current hydraulic setup works, I have spare parts of it all. Basically the master cylinder side has some hard metal tubing that leads to a T which has a bleeder screw, and then a male plastic protrusion with an o-ring that also has a conical shape, and an apparent spring loaded valve inside to prevent fluid from leaking out. So when you stick it into the female conical slave cylinder's connection, it has a plus-sign shaped piece in the center which presses the valve, opening flow. I just think there's still air in the system and the plastic fitting is moving enough that it's actually closing. It's possible they didn't stick it in far enough.

I'll do some checking tomorrow.

Yeah this transmission I have is awesome and low mileage. Would be nice to have a backup that's also super low mileage and in great condition.

Or... I just realized the K20 engine layout in the bay is the same as my engine. So what the Honda guys do for AWD swap should work for me too...

dbral · 12-01-2023, 08:02 PM

Quote:

I'll take some pics of how the current hydraulic setup works, I have spare parts of it all. Basically the master cylinder side has some hard metal tubing that leads to a T which has a bleeder screw, and then a male plastic protrusion with an o-ring that also has a conical shape, and an apparent spring loaded valve inside to prevent fluid from leaking out. So when you stick it into the female conical slave cylinder's connection, it has a plus-sign shaped piece in the center which presses the valve, opening flow. I just think there's still air in the system and the plastic fitting is moving enough that it's actually closing. It's possible they didn't stick it in far enough.

Ahhh....that makes total sense and would explain what's up for sure. If that valve is closed, fluid is going nowhere and neither is your clutch pedal. Come to think of it, got an OEM clutch master cyl for our cavalier a few years back and it came pre-bled with fluid in the reservoir AND with the line and connector/valve you just described...just bolted it up and plugged it in and it worked. Guessing that GM used that connector/valve for super-quick assembly line awesomeness....not caring that 20+ years down the road, when most all of the OEM parts are gone, that issues like yours are going to arise. Your plan of eliminating that connection style with your modded (billet!) throw-out brg. will prob. be a good repair.

Quote:

It's possible they didn't stick it in far enough.

LOL!...All joking aside, that very well may be...they are not easy to connect together. Almost feels like the slave side is going to break. Also too, as the pressure inside the fitting increases when you press the pedal, it may be forcing the two connector halves apart and closing that valve. The tolerances between the parts are prob. not as exacting as OEM so mixing and matching stuff (because we have no choice

) may be an issue as well.

Man, hope you go AWD. That would be over the top

[ion] C2 · 12-01-2023, 08:18 PM

What's funny is if you look up master/slave cyls on auto parts sites like AutoZone, it literally says in the description "DIFFICULT TO BLEED" haha. Yeah it would make total sense if the fittings aren't fully seated.

Yeah AWD would be next level. Amazing traction right from the launch. It is something I really would like, it's just going to take a LOT of custom work. But I might just go for it. The car runs as-is. Sure, it's rusty. But I can mock up and prepare the other chassis and go all out on it getting it ready, then just bring over the engine and other stuff... I have the money.... wonder how long it would take.

Figuring out hubs, custom subframes, custom axles, custom driveshaft, the shifter setup, clutch options, bellhousing adapter..... I mean it's doable... would definitely make this thing the ultimate Alero...

[ion] C2 · 12-02-2023, 01:32 AM

Definitely the issue. My new master cylinder and slave cylinder that I have sitting around fit much better than the ones that're installed... basically I'm at risk of the pedal not working if the plastic piece wiggles just the right way and blocks flow. I was trying to find a way to cable tie the assembly in but man it's tight down there. Hard to see what I can wrap around to pull it as linearly as possible inward to the female portion. Would be a decent band aid fix.

My new slave cylinder nor my new master cylinder came with the spring clip/staple thing that holds them together. The one that's installed looks like this, I think it might have just been rigged up by the shop. It's easy for it to slide off and fall out, and doesn't hold well:

A picture from a slave cylinder on Amazon shows this, which is a much different shape:

So yeah, this is what it's supposed to be:

Probably thicker and holds it better.

[ion] C2 · 12-02-2023, 06:47 PM

I was able to swap my spare slave cylinder with another at O'Reilly that included the clip, and then my wife and I installed it. Works WAY better. Male fitting is snugly all the way in. Hopefully that fixes my issues. I do have the clutch masters option here in case it ends up being necessary in the end... but I think I am going to make the other Alero AWD...

I think I found the clunk:
https://youtube.com/shorts/CFdsruFxaAc

Remember how I said it sounds very similar to when I used to not use brake pad anti-rattle clips and the pads would shift in the caliper during braking? Looks like the pads are able to move in this setup too.

With brief Googling, I found this thread. https://www.ctsvowners.com/threads/c...brakes.161184/

Just pads shifting, no big deal. These Power Stop calipers seem to have a few quirks. Probably should've gotten new OEM or something. Oh well don't really care a long as it's not a function or safety concern. Only happens when braking hard.

dbral · 12-03-2023, 11:21 PM

Great news about your clutch issue. Sounds like you got it squared away.

Oh yeah, AWD would make your next car a whole different animal. Adapting Honda drivetrain stuff like you mentioned would prob. be a good foundation as those parts have already been proven in other high hp swaps. There is a Cav. on youtube that someone swapped in a Saab AWD setup into as well. Might be some useful info in that build vid. that might be helpful too. Wish i had some real world knowledge to share with you on that subject but have never attempted anything close to that caliber. lol i can only dream of such things....but maybe one day....

As far as how much $ and time is required to do that swap.....Yes, lol. Not sure how much time and money you do have to spare but honestly if i had both of those things i would build a separate shop, install a lift, then purchase basic machine tools (lathe/mill etc.) and a higher end TIG and spend all the time i had at first getting really good and solid at the basics of fab. work. Learn all of the necessary BMP's that i need to build off of and when i felt comfortable, put them into practice with my car. Dreaming of course, but if i could i absolutely would. If i won the lotto, i would jump down that rabbit hole with both feet lol. Not sure if that approach would be something you would be interested in but it would allow you to be in total control of your build and you would learn a lot of cool sh!t in the process and truthfully you would never stop learning. The sky is the limit with that...

Hopefully that is your clunk noise. As a test, maybe you could run a small bead of RTV on the metal pad/caliper contact points/edges, let it dry, then take it for a drive and see if the noise changes/goes away? Seems like a lot of clearance. Cool setup but crazy pad slop. Extra clearance for heat expansion/heavy duty use maybe? Is there a way to verify that they gave you the correct pads for that setup?

[ion] C2 · 12-07-2023, 05:56 PM

I have a fabricator who would be into handling the custom welding needs. Just a matter of figuring out what parts to buy, making the adapter plate, and welding up any customized mounts and the rear subframe setup.

Ever since I picked it up from the transmission shop, the air fuel ratio has been stuck at the highest it can read. Laptop says the sensor is reading maxed out. Sigh. Interrupted my plan to get some high throttle footage, don't want to be running without a wideband reading. Don't see any wire breakage so far, but still inspecting...

dbral · 12-08-2023, 06:30 PM

Quote:

I have a fabricator who would be into handling the custom welding needs.

Good deal. Still going to be quite expensive i would imagine and no telling how much time would be involved. As long as your fabricator keeps you in the loop, the time should pass fairly quickly. Being able to see the actual progress and working together to keep things progressing/overcoming problems is huge. Hopefully that will be the situation for you and your build.

Dang, sucks about the wideband issue. Recently there have been complaints on other forums of faulty sensors. AEM and Bosch were mentioned. Hopefully it is something simple

[ion] C2 · 12-08-2023, 10:10 PM

The plan is to get some exterior video/audio of me going around some mountain bends next weekened, but I also want to get some in-car POV high throttle stuff to show it off. Gotta get that wideband fixed - although it's running off the tune okay, I like being able to monitor things and I'm sure it's better for the ECU to get a live feed of real AFR in case of issues.

Gonna look at it more on Sunday, if I can't figure it out, the shop said I could swing by and their electrical guru I'm sure will figure it out immediately.

For AWD, I just have to figure out what main parts I need, 3D scan the transmission and the engine and design the adapter plate (I'm sure it has to be damn perfect so the input shaft is perfectly centered with the crank) and hope that someone can either make a custom input shaft setup that's the right splines and length for me to use the usual clutch setups, or do my best to convince Centerforce to make me something that will work in this LD9 engine/Honda transmission setup lol.

dbral · 12-09-2023, 08:32 PM

Love the direction you have chosen for the next build and quite jealous as well lol! Probably going to be a pretty long road but hoping it is a good road for you and your build...def. going to be interesting one for sure, and you can still have fun with your current car in the meantime so that's a plus.

Hoping to see more footage when you get the issue repaired. Yeah, no need to take any chances

[ion] C2 · 12-09-2023, 09:47 PM

I'm hoping it's a short road. Get the parts, throw money at my fabricator, and have this other car up and running AWD, then transfer over the good stuff from the main car.

Ordered a flexible inspection camera to try to see any potential wiring issues in spots I can't see, but also ordered another wideband sensor just in case the sensor itself is bad, might as well try it. I found some stories of people whose Bosch LSU 4.9 sensors just up and died unexpectedly and it would show max lean.

[ion] C2 · 12-15-2023, 04:17 PM

Replaced wideband, works perfect. I think where it's positioned isn't optimal, exposes the sensor element directly to what comes out the turbine, so any spatter of condensation or fuel hits it. We'll see how long this one lasts.

Idle ended up being stuck around 2,000 RPM after a highway pull. I think the IAC is kinda sticky. Gonna clean and lube it. Went back to normal after a couple hard jolts/wiggling it.

Got a decent clip for you:
https://youtu.be/jEqNPKXV0DE

dbral · 12-16-2023, 06:35 PM

That is some impressive get up and go. LOL the speedo display can't keep up even in the triple digits. Gotta be fun right there!

Hard to tell from the vid. but the torque steer seems somewhat manageable but depressions and off-camber/crappy road conditions prob. make it even worse though.

[ion] C2 · 01-16-2024, 04:30 PM

I've been so busy with work the last month I haven't been able to do much with the Alero. Trying to figure out why coastdown/idle is so unpredictable, but I assume the -20% closed loop correction has something to do with it. It's so rich for some reason at low/no throttle. Stuck injector perhaps? Dunno.

I washed it 3 weeks ago and took it out to a spot for a sunset photo. Drove fine there. When I went to leave, it kept wanting to die as soon as I disconnect the engine from the trans. So the wheels turning were supporting the engine spinning when my throttle plate was closed. It kept dying and I kept letting out the clutch to re-engage and get it running again, which resulted in a VERY unpleasant, bucking, jerking 2 mile drive home. It was essentially un-drive-able because any time I had to slow down to a stop, I had to press the clutch pedal and that immediately resulted in the engine turning off. Battery wasn't doing too good to start it back up.

Replaced my battery with the highest end X2 AGM battery to help with it being parked for long periods without a battery tender, and having enough juice to restart the car over and over when the thing stalls. Emailed the tuner right after it happened, he suggested I let him drive it a couple days. Haven't done that yet, just emailed him the logs from back then yesterday though, maybe something will be obvious. I think the IAC is being controlled backwards, and also losing its position by bottoming out. I'm going to try to test a few things and inspect its operation tomorrow. Change a few settings like the max/min clamp % on the IAC so it doesn't max out or overheat. Maybe flip polarity if I can confirm it truly is operating backwards. As far as I understand it, IAC valve pintles' home position should be fully closed. In my case, it seems to home at open.

I was supposed to have a photoshoot Jan 10, but the photographer was sick, plus I hadn't driven my car since that horrible drive home. Would be nice to fix that first. I have a great idea for an intro video of my car that I want to film ASAP.

I still haven't had time to research exactly what transmission etc. I need for AWD, going to try to get some answers today and then push my fabricator to get going on the other chassis regarding the cage and fender bracing, plus this AWD fitment.

The shop's trying to get my truck dyno ready this week. It's looking good.