MAP sensor and adapter

[BlackV6]

I need to replace my 2002 3400 MAP to a 2 bar 3500 type. Does anyone have a part # and a source for an adapter to go from my 3400 harness to a 3500 style MAP
Thank you in adavance.

[BlackV6]

Beuller....Beuller ?

[01OldsAleroGt]

since you are a fellow florida amodder, look up WOT-Tech, Ben just relocated down here to Florida

[BlackV6]

Thanks

[jabartram]

i got both the new style sensor and pigtail off of ebay, and made my own hold down.

[BlackV6]

You dont remember the part # for the new style 2 or 3 bar do you. I can fab a bracket. Thank so much

[MMGT1]

I didn't think our PCM could support a 2 BAR MAP? In the PCM they top out at 140 or so I think. Is that high enough to support a 2 BAR? Also, if you delete the MAF these things go into SD mode banging gears at full pressure. This is why tuning MAP in the 3400 is such a bitch to do. You will destroy a factory trans mount in no time. If the car is not banging gears, you are not in the right mode to tune it, sucks!

[AleroB888]

Originally Posted by MMGT1

I didn't think our PCM could support a 2 BAR MAP? In the PCM they top out at 140 or so I think. Is that high enough to support a 2 BAR? Also, if you delete the MAF these things go into SD mode banging gears at full pressure. This is why tuning MAP in the 3400 is such a bitch to do. You will destroy a factory trans mount in no time. If the car is not banging gears, you are not in the right mode to tune it, sucks!

Not only the MAP table, but the spark tables get maxed out as well. I've got a post somewhere in this sub-forum that discussed that, I'll look for it....

http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?p=516593&highlight=scan+graph#post5 16593

[MMGT1]

Originally Posted by AleroB888

Not only the MAP table, but the spark tables get maxed out as well. I've got a post somewhere in this sub-forum that discussed that, I'll look for it....

http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?p=516593&highlight=scan+graph#post5 16593

See, thats what Im talking about. So putting a 2-3 bar map on the car is pretty useless. That's terrible that you have to give up power due to a limit in the pcm with that table. What you have in there about it carrying the final value is right. Once exceeded, it will just hold that value.

[[ion] C2]

You use HPTuners and scale the values. The transmission should be a non-issue as well, I would assume.

[MMGT1]

Mind posting a screen shot of your MAP table? I'm curious now. I have herd of the guys scaling the MAP, but never knew if it would actually work. This is why I am using a MAF in my install. I am using the MAF from a Cobalt/Malibu/Corvette so I can get a poper reading out of it all the way to max air flow....
Tables are available from the guys on HP now for whatever size tube you install it in and there is even a guy kicking there now that is making the Honeycomb to fit any size piping I choose to use, pretty sweet actually!

[[ion] C2]

As you can see, I don't have a 3400. I don't need to scale any values because I have a 2-bar tune based on the GMPP supercharger kit tune.

[unchained01]

the is it limited with an aftermarket device ? say a MS ? gotta get in touch with blkgagt on GAGT forum or ask milzy he put down 400 hp on the dyno and i am interested in seeing if he maxed his table out too AaronGTR is another good one to ask and he has plenty if scans to tell ya

[MMGT1]

I know Milzy is running a piggy back that he designed himself on his. Pretty sure he is making it available to the public too.

[BlackV6]

If I am only running 10-15 lbs of boost, you are saying that the 3400 computer cannot be tuned to see a 2 bar MAP?
Even with a third party software such as HPTuners?

[AleroB888]

Originally Posted by BlackV6

If I am only running 10-15 lbs of boost, you are saying that the 3400 computer cannot be tuned to see a 2 bar MAP?
Even with a third party software such as HPTuners?

You can get by with a stock 3400 PCM at 10-12 lbs boost, provided your boost control is very accurate and fail-safe. The results won't be optimum, but still allows for pretty good performance. 15 pounds is pushing it past the limit, with real potential for damage, unless you dial back the timing.

I have not kept up with the latest stuff available on HP Tuners. Tinytuner may have more options, though.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by AleroB888

You can get by with a stock 3400 PCM at 10-12 lbs boost, provided your boost control is very accurate and fail-safe. The results won't be optimum, but still allows for pretty good performance. 15 pounds is pushing it past the limit, with real potential for damage, unless you dial back the timing.

I have not kept up with the latest stuff available on HP Tuners. Tinytuner may have more options, though.

We've ran I think 23psi on a turbo 3400 using 3400 pcm and map a few years ago . MAP isn't really crucial for boost since it's only used in case of MAF failure, just imperative that MAF is working perfectly, and well tuned.

[AleroB888]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

We've ran I think 23psi on a turbo 3400 using 3400 pcm and map a few years ago . MAP isn't really crucial for boost since it's only used in case of MAF failure, just imperative that MAF is working perfectly, and well tuned.

You can do that, but you would have a whole (missing) section of the Spark tables that could not be optimized, past 0.92 g/cyl. If any KR is generated in that range, you could not tell exactly at what boost level it occurred.

If no KR is detected, and acceptable WOT power is achieved with the limited stock timing table, of course that's workable.

But I think you'd be leaving some performance on the "table" haha, pun intended

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by AleroB888

You can do that, but you would have a whole (missing) section of the Spark tables that could not be optimized, past 0.92 g/cyl. If any KR is generated in that range, you could not tell exactly at what boost level it occurred.

If no KR is detected, and acceptable WOT power is achieved with the limited stock timing table, of course that's workable.

But I think you'd be leaving some performance on the "table" haha, pun intended

Once you have a decent amount of power, it doesn't take very much to get past .92 g/cyl, so you're already in that region anyways. I had my laptop stolen out of my truck last year and lost a lot of the scans we had for people's cars over the past few years prior, but I did happen to find a scan of one of my race car passes, and it clearly shows the g/cyl exceeding .92 at 4000 rpm, just .891 seconds after launch. This is with the T67 and 10psi of boost. In this same run, you can also see it hit over 10,900 Hz on the MAF. The MAF I was using was a LT1/LS1 (aluminum) MAF, but it was running off a 3x00 pcm. I don't remember if that was with or without the mini-AFC, but pretty sure it had mini-AFC. If you have a value set at the bottom corner of the spark table, and want to modify it to be something else, you can always modify the RPM threshold and commanded spark after that threshold to command a certain amount of spark after whatever rpm you input as the threshold, but personally, I use this value as a spark-controlled rev-limiter. The bottom line is once you go past a certain point, spark is constant, but that doesn't mean you're losing power because of it.

Boost is pretty constant after you've spooled the turbo, thanks to the wastegate bleeding off any excess pressure, so assuming you know how much boost you've got the system adjusted to, you should know exactly how much boost you have when x amount of knock happens. I don't know anyone who has a boost controller who doesn't have a boost gauge of some kind to see their actual boost. Also the biggest chance of knock to occur happens not at max rpm, but at torque peak.

Paul, we use a custom mini-AFC to exceed the limits of the stock MAF. All of our turbo kits we sell for the 3100 and 3400 use the stock MAF sensor, and those that wish to exceed the limits of the stock MAF (which is somewhere around 350whp with our setup) use the mini-AFC we make to scale back the MAF frequency to give it more range.

[unchained01]

Tiny tuner does support 2 bar map sensor