Turbo Or Rsm Stage Ii Supercharger Kit

[aleroboyKK]

hmm i want to know the pros and cons about both of them, i thought i know but it seems alot of people here have turbo's and no superchargers... need some guidance on this situation.

[Silverknight]

if u're looking for lots of power, go turbo, if u want something thats more practical for everyday use but not as much potential go super... it all depends on how much power u want and how much money you are willing to spend. Generally though a good guideline is Turbo a 4 banger super V6 and blow a V8

[Vtolds]

Originally posted by aleroboyKK@May 26 2005, 02:03 PM
i thought i know but it seems alot of people here have turbo's and no superchargers... need some guidance on this situation.
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I like the Supercharger better. And I actaully cant recall a member with a turbo in his/her Alero, I can't remember if Germ does or if its just his Monte. I am sure some one will tell me different but I have never seen any pics.

[natedawg9640]

Originally posted by Silverknight@May 26 2005, 07:47 PM
Generally though a good guideline is Turbo a 4 banger super V6 and blow a V8
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This makes sense logically... 4 cylinders dont have the excess horsepower to spare to run the supercharger or blower... v6s and especially v8s are much better for that... and they are right about the fact that with a turbo not only does it add power but it gives you a whole lot more potential to add more in the future...

[Super White Alero]

depends on your perference really.

Supercharge provides constant power, on a exponental curve, ie at 1000rpm you get .25 psi, 2000 you get 1psi, at 3000rpm you get 4psi, and at 5000rpm you get 8psi, and so on, and so forth

A turbo requires that your exhaust provides enuff backpressure to spool up the turbocharger to generate constant boost thru the entire rpm range. But some turbo will provide lag, some more noticible than others. Whereas a supercharge will not provide this lag, but may rob the engine of some hp, But take a little hp to make more hp right.

Aside note, turbos are mcuh cheaper than a supercharger for the quad4

[aleroboyKK]

Originally posted by Super White Alero@May 26 2005, 10:46 PM
But some turbo will provide lag, some more noticible than others.
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this is exactly why they made blow-off valves..

reduces/elimates lag if im correct

[Vtolds]

Originally posted by aleroboyKK+May 27 2005, 06:19 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aleroboyKK @ May 27 2005, 06:19 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Super White Alero@May 26 2005, 10:46 PM
But some turbo will provide lag, some more noticible than others.
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this is exactly why they made blow-off valves..

reduces/elimates lag if im correct
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[/b][/quote]

I'm not so sure.
The main purpose of the blow-off valve is to relieve the compressed air that is forced back into your turbo, which will cause compressor surge or backspin. Repetitive occurence of compressor surge will damage the turbo and cause turbo failure.

From what I read it has nothing to do with lag. You get lag when your exhaust speed drops which drops the speed of the turbine.

[Redog]

I'd say go s/c

The money is about the same, but your underhood temps will stay way down, plus a s/c will have no lag like a turbo will.

I also think a s/c is a bit easier to install in the bay of an Alero. Plus it's belt driven too so you have constant power.

I would do the manifolds, TB full exhaust and Headers to complete the package.

[Fast Eddie]

First off I don't think ALOT of people here have turbos, I can only think of two right off and one is germ in a monte? and nguyen who was the only other one I can think of that actually ran. There's probably a couple more. Then John and Mike are/were S/C.

This is one of the most common Qs on here look around this has been addressed umpteen zillion times, search and you will find.

You can get big power out of either setup. The turbo will probably cost less cuz there are tons of cheap parts on ebay. A S/C kit will be easier to install since it a plug and play so to speak. The problem you are going to have is tuning, unless you get a kit, and even then...??? Also if you are headed for big boost ##s make sure to give your bottom end some :wub: first. (that doesn't seem right :eek: )

BTW GM also has a S/C out for the 00+ 2.4.

[Super White Alero]

^^ completely agreed, I stopped cuz I simply cannot afford to mod the ho anymore. I like to but I have otehr obligations now.

Both I agreed strongly that a s/c is much easier to work with b/c is a root type and is just as ED said plug n' play, but expensive.

A turbo is cheap in terms of price but you make up for it in custom piping.

Both requires tuning, a s/c can be just as competitive as a turbo if setup correctly and properbly more so cuz it can push the curve higher.

Just remember the weak point of the qaud4 is not the motor but the tranny.

[natedawg9640]

Just remember the weak point of the qaud4 is not the motor but the tranny.
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[/quote]
another splendid point... before you go doubleing you HP and modding the crap out of you engine you should upgrade the trans or the first drive you have with your new expensive powerful engine will leave you wishing you did nothing to it... :cry:

[Fast Eddie]

Originally posted by natedawg9640@May 27 2005, 12:39 PM
Just remember the weak point of the qaud4 is not the motor but the tranny.
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maybe the autos...??

[BlackJack]

I seem to recall a post mentioning that you wouldn't have much "lag" with the proper selection of parts. The right turbine wheel will get the spool up going much faster. Overall, a turbo setup can be done complete and correctly for half the price of a retail supercharger from what I've seen.

[Vtolds]

Originally posted by BlackJack@May 28 2005, 10:05 AM
a turbo setup can be done complete and correctly for half the price of a retail supercharger from what I've seen.
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then you need to have someone tune it, and a reprogrammed computer. The RSM Supercharger comes with everything, just bolt it up and go.

[ptrudel]

Originally posted by Vtolds+May 28 2005, 10:21 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vtolds @ May 28 2005, 10:21 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-BlackJack@May 28 2005, 10:05 AM
a turbo setup can be done complete and correctly for half the price of a retail supercharger from what I've seen.
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then you need to have someone tune it, and a reprogrammed computer. The RSM Supercharger comes with everything, just bolt it up and go.
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[/b][/quote]

only thing with RSM is you gotta give 'em your car so they can do the install...

[Vtolds]

Originally posted by 2000_olds_alero+May 28 2005, 12:19 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(2000_olds_alero @ May 28 2005, 12:19 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Vtolds@May 28 2005, 10:21 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-BlackJack@May 28 2005, 10:05 AM
a turbo setup can be done complete and correctly for half the price of a retail supercharger from what I've seen.
Quoted post


then you need to have someone tune it, and a reprogrammed computer. The RSM Supercharger comes with everything, just bolt it up and go.
Quoted post


only thing with RSM is you gotta give 'em your car so they can do the install...
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[/b][/quote]

They actaully ship the kit now without them installing it. I know in the past that the price actaully included 2 nights in a hotel while they did the work.

[BlackJack]

Originally posted by Vtolds@May 28 2005, 08:21 AM
then you need to have someone tune it, and a reprogrammed computer. The RSM Supercharger comes with everything, just bolt it up and go.
Quoted post

That would be true IF you're having someone else tune it. I'm actually toying with the idea of scrapping the entire PCM/harness concept and trying out a full stand-alone EMS
since my tranny is going to be out of the loop anyway. The race rebuild on the tranny is going to remove computer control. Now I shouldn't have to screw with limited programming.

[Spilner521]

turbos dont have as much lag as everybody says. a properly sized turbo makes boost almost instantly and makes full boost well before the supercharger. turbos use wasted energy from the engine (exhaust) to spin the compressor to make boost. superchargers are belt driven and take power from the engine to spin the compressor. turbos can be very "daily driven" friendly, since you control when you want to be hard on the throttle and go fast, or just cruise around at light throttle, out of boost, which also saves on gas. turbo systems are also easier to upgrade in the future.

as for tuning, if you dont have a clue to how it works, then yes, you pay someone to tune it for you. and you dont need a reprogrammed computer. there's a few different fuel controllers and injector controllers out there you can choose from to help add the extra fuel...it's all personal preference. even so, with all the parts and tuning involved, including labor to install everything (assuming you're not doing it yourself) you're still paying less for the whole system than a supercharger installed.

if you couldnt tell, i'm obviously more biased to turbos over superchargers. i'm sure someone else could make a whole other list why superchargers blow turbos away, but this is just my 2 cents.

[Oldsman]

with an auto turbo lag is not existent. why? because with an auto you can launch under boost, by brake torqueing the motor up.

the RSM s/c well RSM has problems with there reflash and the few that have had the kit either sells it or blows their motor. RSM stuff is high priced and not the best.

i would get the GM s/c over the RSM anyday.

[urweak]

if you want a supercharger, you want the one that GM sells. The RSM kit is 4k+ whereas the GM kit is around 2,500. Plus you can up the boost on the GM kit by buying a simple pulley for around 100 bucks, the RSM kit needs to be upgraded to the Stage 2 option which is far more then even 200 dollars.

So forget the RSM kit and get the one from GM, or go turbo.

[Spilner521]

one problem with the GM kit.....yeah you can up the boost with a smaller pulley, but without it being intercooled, you're just forcing more hot air in there. there's only a certain point you can up the boost to, and its not very much, before you wont gain anything more because the computer is retarding the timing so much for all that hot air, you wont be pushing any more power......and with that i still say go turbo..... :thumb: :biggrin:

[kwhauck]

hmmm......i wonder...............TURBO!!!!!!

[FormulaNERD]

<<<------------- turbo

[urweak]

Originally posted by Spilner521@Jun 30 2005, 04:05 AM
one problem with the GM kit.....yeah you can up the boost with a smaller pulley, but without it being intercooled, you're just forcing more hot air in there. there's only a certain point you can up the boost to, and its not very much, before you wont gain anything more because the computer is retarding the timing so much for all that hot air, you wont be pushing any more power......and with that i still say go turbo..... :thumb: :biggrin:
Quoted post


Yea, if you want to run more then say 12psi, then the GM charger isnt for you. But i dont think you can go any higher in boost with the RSM kit anyways, after you get the stage two kit.

[Oldsman]

stage 2 is like only 9psi

[ptrudel]

so is the GM kit any good? i mean...the price is a lil more reasonable, and you get warranty on the damn thing if installed by a certified GM tech..which my buddy is...and he'd buy the kit for me at his cost :biggrin:


so..if i were to go with GM, am i gonna regret it or what?

[Oldsman]

it is a good kit and if upto 8psi would be enoough for ya then get it.

the kit is a good kit, comes with everything. bolt on and go.

[ptrudel]

well i'm about 95% sure i won't want more then 8psi for a while, thats the route i'll go then...especially if i can get the damn thing at near cost and free install...

[urweak]

Originally posted by 2000_olds_alero@Jul 5 2005, 09:48 AM
well i'm about 95% sure i won't want more then 8psi for a while, thats the route i'll go then...especially if i can get the damn thing at near cost and free install...
Quoted post


I would go for it, the only think that doesnt come with the kit is the reflash, but that cant be more then say 100 bucks, and since your buddy is a GM tech its probably cheaper.

[Oldsman]

it does come with it. but according to dealership you still have to pay $80-$100 for the time. so the cost of the reflash is free but not install.

[Final-Reality]

The whole "Turbo/Supercharger" question is pretty vague and generally won't help anybody. The question should how much do you want to spend? :P

For all practicality purposes, the GM supercharger kit is a pretty damn good deal. For $2500 you get everything you need, and you get a re-flashed ECM which means it'll run as smooth as it did without the charger. Sure stock it's only putting out 190HP, but with some simple upgrades like a custom CAI, pulley, 62MM throttle body and a full header/3" exhaust, you can be in the 230+HP range like that. Do some internal engine work, like a mild bore, give your head a good port job and add some cams from JBodyPerformance.com (some of the best grinds out there) and you can be at 300HP in no time.

If you want to spend a lot of cash, then forget all that junk and start putting together a good turbo kit. You'll need a properly-sized turbo for the engine and amount of boost you want to run, a turbo manifold or preferably turbo header, and an intercooler just for starters. Having a friend who can bend and weld aluminum piping for cheap wouldn't hurt either. You'd also want to again do head work and get new cams, and also beefier pistons and rods and better bearings since you'll likely be running anything from 12-25 psi. Then you'll want a good engine management system. A piggy-back style like an Apexi S-AFC that reads info from both the engine and the ECU and tells one another whats going on and what to do can be used with pretty good success, but some people never get their car fully-tuned properly and they almost always have problems somewhere in their power band, usually either at idle, under WOT with low engine revs or under WOT with high engine revs. A full engine management system like the ElectroMotive TEC3 can allow you to properly tune your engine perfectly at all engine RPMs and under all conditions, but they're expensive and take quite a bit of know-how and work in order to get to that point. You could easily be running 400HP as long as you spend money in the right places, IE a lot of headwork (the stock head flow numbers are crap), well-chosen cams and engine management. Thats why the GM S/C kit is a good deal, the reflash represents a lot of hard work already done for you :P

Either choice is a good one, but the GM S/C kit would be the cheaper of the two and with some extra work you'll have a car that will be plenty of fun to drive.

[ptrudel]

Originally posted by Final-Reality@Jul 10 2005, 12:54 PM
Either choice is a good one, but the GM S/C kit would be the cheaper of the two and with some extra work you'll have a car that will be plenty of fun to drive.
Quoted post



and a little bit more streetable...but who cares about that right?

[splitshift]

if you need help deciding between a turbo and SC check out www.howstuffworks.com is is a free and very help full reference site it's also very helpful to pick up a automotive tech manual(although can be quite pricy) if anyone would like to further discuss performance with me I'm always willing to share and trade info. keep in mind the best way to learn is research research research... also keep in mind that not all sites are completely acurate.

[Spilner521]

Originally posted by 2000_olds_alero+Jul 11 2005, 09:14 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(2000_olds_alero @ Jul 11 2005, 09:14 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Final-Reality@Jul 10 2005, 12:54 PM
Either choice is a good one, but the GM S/C kit would be the cheaper of the two and with some extra work you'll have a car that will be plenty of fun to drive.
Quoted post



and a little bit more streetable...but who cares about that right?
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]

a properly done custom turbo setup can be just as cost effective and just a streetable as the GM S/C.

[ptrudel]

i'm gonna have to see that setup of yours spilner if you come to the falls meet....it'll really help me decide what i really want out of this

[Spy]

if you want to go reaaaaaaaaaaaally fast go with a custom turbo kit and think about a motor build up.

if you want to just have a peppier car that's more enjoyable to drive without as much customization go w/ the gm s/c route or rsm route.

[Spilner521]

Originally posted by 2000_olds_alero@Jul 12 2005, 06:41 AM
i'm gonna have to see that setup of yours spilner if you come to the falls meet....it'll really help me decide what i really want out of this
Quoted post


oh i'll be there...wouldnt miss it for anything :thumb:

if you want to go reaaaaaaaaaaaally fast go with a custom turbo kit and think about a motor build up.

if you want to just have a peppier car that's more enjoyable to drive without as much customization go w/ the gm s/c route or rsm route.


^^basically thats what it comes down to. with a turbo you can get more power out of it and it's much easier to upgrade but also takes a lot of customizing since there's really not a "turbo kit" for an alero. if you want a bolt on a go setup for a decently quick car, the GM S/C is perfect.

[02eco]

the RSM s/c well RSM has problems with there reflash and the few that have had the kit either sells it or blows their motor. RSM stuff is high priced and not the best.


I beg to differ. :rolleyes: I've beat the poop outta mine and at the track and no problems, just slipping belt. That's inherent to any Vortec/Paxton/ATI blower. Maybe I got a wicked deal but after install, my RSM kit was cheaper than the GM 2.4TC kit, plus RSM threw in some other goodies. Sorry, I can't reveal cost, that's between me & RSM.

But really, Spy summed it up. If you want big power, build the engine & go turbo. The best power & cost is the GM kit. For $2000US you have 4.5psi and you can add to it very cost effectively.

It boggles me why more 2000-2002 2.4TC n-body owners haven't done this instead of so many bolt-ons & its so cheap & easy.

[00redse]

S/C

and there's a few more boosted 2.4's out there than a lot of people think. I'm one of them.

For me, I got my RSM blower plus larger fuel injectors, and front mount intercooler for 1000 less than the GM kit. As far as RSMs reflash, I opted not to use it because it woulda been an extra 350 bucks plus shipping, and I woulda been without a ecm for a few days or more. So I just used the 2 bar map sensor that comes with the GM kit and used the reflash from it as well. So I like to think I have the best of both worlds.

in order to really up the boost, you don't have to upgrade to the stage 2 blower, you can just get a larger drive housing. Which will put you up to about 12-15 psi. Bad part about that, is that it's like 900 bucks. but the difference between 6 and 12 psi is quite a bit and worth the money. Especially since I'm intercooled, and won't really have to do any tuning since the reflash will adjust for the extra boost. The only other thing I'll really need is larger injectors.....maybe.

check out my cardomain if you'd like to see it http://www.cardomain.com/profile/00redse

[Spy]

so have you gone to the track yet with it?


Originally posted by 00redse@Sep 24 2005, 06:41 PM
S/C

and there's a few more boosted 2.4's out there than a lot of people think. I'm one of them.

For me, I got my RSM blower plus larger fuel injectors, and front mount intercooler for 1000 less than the GM kit. As far as RSMs reflash, I opted not to use it because it woulda been an extra 350 bucks plus shipping, and I woulda been without a ecm for a few days or more. So I just used the 2 bar map sensor that comes with the GM kit and used the reflash from it as well. So I like to think I have the best of both worlds.

in order to really up the boost, you don't have to upgrade to the stage 2 blower, you can just get a larger drive housing. Which will put you up to about 12-15 psi. Bad part about that, is that it's like 900 bucks. but the difference between 6 and 12 psi is quite a bit and worth the money. Especially since I'm intercooled, and won't really have to do any tuning since the reflash will adjust for the extra boost. The only other thing I'll really need is larger injectors.....maybe.

check out my cardomain if you'd like to see it http://www.cardomain.com/profile/00redse
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[00redse]

not yet. With a 2 year old and a 2 month old, I barely have time to scratch my a$$ after being at work 9 hours a day. Plus I'd have to take the subs and amps and child seats out and have it all planned out ahead of time. soon enough spy soon enough.... plus I'd rather wait till it's not 90 degrees at night anymore.

really contemplating upping the boost though...... as you know it's very addictive.

also still waiting for my pacesetter header and 2.5" cat-back.

and looking for a 62mm TB for cheap and a ported intake mani. Or i'll just borrow a friends intake mani that he's not using anymore (gm s/c) while I port mine.

then the good times will roll. lol

[2fst4u]

what does it mean by, it had to be crushed?

[00redse]

Originally posted by 2fst4u@Oct 3 2005, 10:44 AM
what does it mean by, it had to be crushed?
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If you're talking about the GA in my cardomain, that car had to be crushed because it was a pre-production(1998built for 1999)prototype, and was not sanctioned for emmissions. The car could never be titled or resold, and any prototype car like that must be "decommissioned" after a certain number of years. This is why the original sc/t GA was parted out on ebay a few months ago, and why schrams always has unique gm car parts.