Cooling Issues

[Oldsman]

well i got my motor back togather and have over 300 miles on it. now when i did the top half of the motor i changed the water pump, thermostat, and changed the coolant.

and i still have the same cooling issue as i did before with 101,000 miles on everything.

the issue........
when going down the high or at least constantly driving no cooling issues. after the motor has been at operating temp for some time and i am at a stoplight or stopped in traffic for at least a couple minutes the temp rises. it will keep heating. the fans are on and sucking air thru the rad. the only way to get it to cool down is by turning on the air(temp on hot) and getting the fans on high speed. now if i am in city traffic for quite awhile like 1 hour, by having the air on only hold the temp at wherever it was when i turn the air on.

it does have a 180 deg thermostat in it. when it heats up it is between 195-200 and by that time i kick the air(temp on hot) on to try to cool it.

if i get out on an open road and constantly move over 30mph it cools right down.

Anybody got any ideas on what i need to do to cure this?

[-Alero-]

might be radiator issue

[rowdygls]

i have this issue as well. dont have my t-stat installed yet and my car just rolled over 50K. its a V-6.

[Fast Eddie]

I'm sure you checked your coolant level to make sure it is full, right?, that is what the problem sounds like 2me.

If you had this prob b4 the head swap, poor flow is probably not an issue.....

the only thing I can think off, and im just brainstorming(farting) here, is if the stock operating temp is 195 (i dont have my FSM yet so im not sure what it is) and the Tstat is 180* model then w/o an ECM flash (like the 3.4 guys) then the 'puter will be completely happy keeping the engine coolant temp sensors reading ~195 since it sees that as the NOT. Is it actually overheating? where is the needle?

[bigd6983]

im starting to think this is just normal..........i can think of two reasons, we rely heavily on air hitting our radiator or our water pumps have a poor design and only work efficiently when the rpm is built up a bit and constant........

[rowdygls]

if thats the case im leaning towards the pumps then bcuz i should huge amounts of air hitting my rad.

[ptrudel]

mine does this too....hoping a coolant flush, new t-stat will help..but maybe it wont...

[Oldsman]

Originally posted by Fast Eddie@May 24 2005, 11:33 PM
I'm sure you checked your coolant level to make sure it is full, right?, that is what the problem sounds like 2me.

If you had this prob b4 the head swap, poor flow is probably not an issue.....

the only thing I can think off, and im just brainstorming(farting) here, is if the stock operating temp is 195 (i dont have my FSM yet so im not sure what it is) and the Tstat is 180* model then w/o an ECM flash (like the 3.4 guys) then the 'puter will be completely happy keeping the engine coolant temp sensors reading ~195 since it sees that as the NOT. Is it actually overheating? where is the needle?
Quoted post



the factory thermostat in the 2.4 is 180 not 195. coolant level full.

the needle at normal operating temp is at the half mark on the temp gauge. in local traffic it gets to halfway between H and normal temp.

i think part of the problem is how our front bumper is designed being that only 1/3 of the rad actually is exposed while air has to flow up behing where the liscence plate fits to reach the rest.

[Oldsman]

i think i am going to be getting the casper high speed fan switch

but if others have the same issue maybe this is a normal thing.

i am going to check my alero service manual and see if i find anything. if i do i will let ya'll know.

[Spook]

Same issues here, before and after I did the LIMG work. I put on a new water pump and thermo at the same time and it still does it. It runs even until im stopped for a few mins then bam, it starts creeping towards the H.

[Fast Eddie]

I've never had an older car that would sit in traffic and not get above NOT. The cooling system is designed under the assumption that the vehicle would be moving. Mine warms up in the drive thru but once I'm moving again it cools down (and Im lucky enough not to have warm tranny fluid pumping through the rad), just like every other car i've owned. When you are driving the engine builds up heat then when you stop the engine is still hot as hell (and continues to produce heat) but there is no air moving over the rad, which means the anitfreeze also heats up. The fans help but are not really adaquit and not just on the alero.

I know you used that dex-cool stuff or whatever it is. best bet if it bothers you is a fan switch, and maybe a tranny cooler.

On a side note where did you get your FSM? I need one.

[Oldsman]

FSM?

[-Alero-]

yeah scott i got me one of the casper switchs, it really helped out alot, whenever i was sitting in traffic, cause i really hate to see my car overheat, it gets all sluggish. its a simple plug and play install you wouldnt have a problem with it.

also just a suggestion, i saw a tranny cooler and oil cooler, combined in one cooler, on summit racing, i was thinkign about getting in the future. and you can make your own custom cooling setup if you want. i could give you the link if you want.

[Fast Eddie]

Originally posted by Oldsman@May 25 2005, 09:32 AM
FSM?
Quoted post


Factory service manual :thumb:

[BlackJack]

Oldsman is right, for 2.4, the factory tstat is 180.
Sounds to me like -Alero- might be right, possibly a radiator issue. Especially if your car has above 70k miles on it. The radiator issue could come in two forms....one, an internal flow problem from rust particle or mineral buildup, since we have iron blocks and aluminum heads....or two, an external problem with a buildup of debris such as dirt and bugs in between the cooling fins. The cheapest place to start is checking the flow first. I would request a pro-grade flush at the dealer or repair shop, or find out how they do it, and try that first. It wouldn't hurt for the whole cooling system to be sanitized. Since the heater actually helps your cooling notably, it's obvious you're getting some circulation, so I'm leaning towards a flow problem in the radiator.

Silly question, but any chance the tstat might be installed backwards?

If you have an auto tranny, the dual circuit cooler is a good idea...I'm installing one behind the left side duct in the air dam with a mini fan on it.

[jabartram]

do any of you with this heating problem have aftermarket or performance programming? when DHP modified the programming they changed the cooling fan settings, on/off running length cycle, also 2min quiet mode after key shutoff, i never had this problem, before or after, i do know my car has run at a more consistant temp since my DHP, my car runs cooler at idle than it does on the freeway.

[sound_xtreme]

u got all the air out of the coolant system? i had that prob.

[Oldsman]

Originally posted by BlackJack@May 25 2005, 09:02 PM
Oldsman is right, for 2.4, the factory tstat is 180.
Sounds to me like -Alero- might be right, possibly a radiator issue. Especially if your car has above 70k miles on it. The radiator issue could come in two forms....one, an internal flow problem from rust particle or mineral buildup, since we have iron blocks and aluminum heads....or two, an external problem with a buildup of debris such as dirt and bugs in between the cooling fins. The cheapest place to start is checking the flow first. I would request a pro-grade flush at the dealer or repair shop, or find out how they do it, and try that first. It wouldn't hurt for the whole cooling system to be sanitized. Since the heater actually helps your cooling notably, it's obvious you're getting some circulation, so I'm leaning towards a flow problem in the radiator.

Silly question, but any chance the tstat might be installed backwards?

If you have an auto tranny, the dual circuit cooler is a good idea...I'm installing one behind the left side duct in the air dam with a mini fan on it.
Quoted post


it could need to be flushed. that is a possiblity.

but if it was a flow issue it would happen all the time i was stopped. rather if i sit at a light for 5 minutes (seems like 10 because of traffic) or i am in real heavy traffic.
but flushing it is worth a shot.

far as thermostat being mounted upside down......you can't on a 2.4 only goes one way.

Now i have noticed with B&M on all day this heating up issue happens faster and more often than with it off. so i think a tranny cooler is in the future along with the casper switch.

[BlackJack]

you run with your B&M on all day long? hopefully not in "stage II" position.

Either way, you definitely need a tranny cooler then, but I doubt that has anything to do with your engine heating up.

If you're gonna bother with a tranny cooler, might as well go dual circuit and get oil cooling too.

[mfuller]

Originally posted by BlackJack@May 26 2005, 03:14 PM
If you're gonna bother with a tranny cooler, might as well go dual circuit and get oil cooling too.
Quoted post

Or just run Mobil 1.

[BLK03GXS]

We all need direct c02-oil/tranny/coolent injection
this will fix our issues :P
jk

[Fast Eddie]

Originally posted by Oldsman+May 26 2005, 11:51 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Oldsman @ May 26 2005, 11:51 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-BlackJack@May 25 2005, 09:02 PM
Oldsman is right, for 2.4, the factory tstat is 180.
Sounds to me like -Alero- might be right, possibly a radiator issue. Especially if your car has above 70k miles on it. The radiator issue could come in two forms....one, an internal flow problem from rust particle or mineral buildup, since we have iron blocks and aluminum heads....or two, an external problem with a buildup of debris such as dirt and bugs in between the cooling fins. The cheapest place to start is checking the flow first. I would request a pro-grade flush at the dealer or repair shop, or find out how they do it, and try that first. It wouldn't hurt for the whole cooling system to be sanitized. Since the heater actually helps your cooling notably, it's obvious you're getting some circulation, so I'm leaning towards a flow problem in the radiator.

Silly question, but any chance the tstat might be installed backwards?

If you have an auto tranny, the dual circuit cooler is a good idea...I'm installing one behind the left side duct in the air dam with a mini fan on it.
Quoted post


it could need to be flushed. that is a possiblity.

but if it was a flow issue it would happen all the time i was stopped. rather if i sit at a light for 5 minutes (seems like 10 because of traffic) or i am in real heavy traffic.
but flushing it is worth a shot.

far as thermostat being mounted upside down......you can't on a 2.4 only goes one way.

Now i have noticed with B&M on all day this heating up issue happens faster and more often than with it off. so i think a tranny cooler is in the future along with the casper switch.
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]

100K and no coolant flush, tisk, tisk. You drive then tranny hard and it should keep the engine warmer, the rad cools the engine and the tranny. A flow issue it may not be, unless its air. It still doesn't sound like an issue at all to me. If you are in stop and go traffic, esp with higher tran. pres., then of course the temp is going to rise quicker, you are not getting the air over the rad and are adding alot of heat from both the engine revving and the tranny doing its thing to the coolant. Like I said before does the engine actually overheat (into the red) or just go over the 1/2 way mark?

[Oldsman]

just going past the halfway mark. highest it has gotten is between the halfway and and the next mark.

[Fast Eddie]

Doesn't sound like a problem to me. Every car I've driven (~100K+ miles) seems to get above NOT, not into the red though, when doing the stop/go thing. I've always assumed Its just not enough air passing over the rad. Although If you do sit for loooong enough, like 20+ minutes in construction not moving, it does cool back to NOT. Try letting it run tonight after work in the drive way and see if it comes back down to NOT on it own or if it just stays hot. That might indicate if something is wrong or if there is just too little air movement to cool things down.