Who Wants To Claim

[eag182]

Alright, I want to know who is #1 :P

[Alerosince99]

Well it was John but right now its easily SC/Alero until John finishes his project.

and if we are just talking 3400 and on this board you have to throw Germ right up there.

[-Alero-]

the fastest alero ever would be this bad daddy right here!
http://img200.exs.cx/img200/3100/k70au.jpg


lol j/k, i would say Springs will be the fastest alero here, when he is done

[sc/alero]

i believe i am the strongest right at this point again like everyone says and my sig says until john is done but i will get to hng on to it until then :lol:

[Redog]

Me :P

I'm the fastest in the 15 second range :thumb: :P :lol:

[eag182]

Who is john and whats his project?

[-Alero-]

john- one of the baddest mother f***er's of all time.

think of him like Rick James

[Wildman]

He pioneered many things for the Alero. Havnt seen him around here (course, I'm rarely outside of the 3400 section myself) but he is a respected member of aleromod since way back when.

[eag182]

does he have a cardomain or nbody site I can see?

[Alerosince99]

He runs APOC, was boosted and used nitrous.

Currently rebuilding his engine for boost and doing a manual swap.

[germ]

Originally posted by Alerosince99@Mar 31 2005, 06:41 PM
Well it was John but right now its easily SC/Alero until John finishes his project.

and if we are just talking 3400 and on this board you have to throw Germ right up there.
Quoted post



john and sc/alero are the two for the alero guys, im not to familier with Johns setup, but what ever it is, its sure to be a big HP producer.


but if you want to talk about just the 3400 in general, there are actually quite a few of us.....

the one guy to look out for this season is a green grand am, tejohnson, from grandamgt.com

ive been giving "technical advice" for his build up and have watched him build up his turbo project and his tranny. he's got a few things up his sleeve.

then there is the dozen or so SC'd grand ams (same setup as SC/Alero's car). most of them havent done anything else besides that and i dont think ive seen one of them dip into the 13's YET, there are a couple of them that are building up some nice projects!

and there are a couple grand am guys that have turbo's and have decent results and some good setups.

and then the lone monte carlo guy, me. as far as i know, i have the highest trap speed for any 3400 in the 1/4 mile, 14.0 @ 106mph. im shotting for 12's this season and 350 WHEEL HP / 400 WHEEL TQ (crosses fingers)

[jturkey69]

crazytaxi is also boosted, and will have his computer tune done soon....last time he made a few dyno runs i think he was at 235 whp, but had major kr issues

[sc/alero]

as far as i know, i have the highest trap speed for any 3400 in the 1/4 mile, 14.0 @ 106mph. im shotting for 12's this season and 350 WHEEL HP / 400 WHEEL TQ (crosses fingers)
Quoted post

with my 13.8 i would have had a great trap speed but the damn speed limiter kicked in only letting me get 98 mph (i was running 15's on the front speedo said 110)
i will get better this year i am shoot for the 13's at 6000ft i will be one happy guy if i can achieve it :thumb: :popc1:

[germ]

you really need to come down out of the sky sometime lol


i know altitude doesnt effect boosted cars all that much, but hell, anything is better than being a freaking mile up!

whats the closest "low altitude" track near you SC?

[sc/alero]

Originally posted by germ@Apr 1 2005, 07:24 AM
you really need to come down out of the sky sometime lol


i know altitude doesnt effect boosted cars all that much, but hell, anything is better than being a freaking mile up!

whats the closest "low altitude" track near you SC?
Quoted post

topeka ks is where i ran the 13.8 at up here the best i got was 14.01 at 95mph.
we are going to take a trip again to ks around oct a bunch of us are going to try and make it or hell even soon if need be

[eag182]

sc how much did you drop total on your sc? dyno?

[sc/alero]

cash wise or what? total $$$$i have about 3000 power wise approx 300 to the ground

[kwhauck]

Originally posted by germ+Apr 1 2005, 07:46 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(germ @ Apr 1 2005, 07:46 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-sc/alero@Apr 1 2005, 05:08 PM
cash wise or what? total $$$$i have about 3000 power wise approx 300 to the ground
Quoted post



:wtf:


you sure about that? 300 whp is a LOT more than any other SC alero/grand am has put down to the wheels.

hell, IIRC, you can only go down about .3" on your pulley before the SC is beyond its efficiancy range.

phantom505 only got 265 at the wheel with 9 psi of turbo boost.


not that i doubt you car has power, but 300 wheel HP is gonna get you MUCH faster times than a 13.8


:beerchug:
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]

13.8 was with a very bad vaccum leak among other problems.....which have now all been remedied.....

[germ]

Originally posted by turbo-alero+Apr 1 2005, 10:56 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(turbo-alero @ Apr 1 2005, 10:56 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by germ@Apr 1 2005, 07:46 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-sc/alero@Apr 1 2005, 05:08 PM
cash wise or what? total $$$$i have about 3000 power wise approx 300 to the ground
Quoted post



:wtf:


you sure about that? 300 whp is a LOT more than any other SC alero/grand am has put down to the wheels.

hell, IIRC, you can only go down about .3" on your pulley before the SC is beyond its efficiancy range.

phantom505 only got 265 at the wheel with 9 psi of turbo boost.


not that i doubt you car has power, but 300 wheel HP is gonna get you MUCH faster times than a 13.8


:beerchug:
Quoted post


13.8 was with a very bad vaccum leak among other problems.....which have now all been remedied.....
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]



hey, we can bench talk all day long. but until someone puts out a dyno sheet, all we can do is speculate and compare what other sc 3400's are putting out. the problem with 300 WHEEL hp from that setup is that you have to go to a much smaller pulley, and when you do that, the SC that is in that kit is NOT effective and will start boost stacking which will not make more power, but makes more heat and detonation.

if i remember right, Aaron from GAGT.com is only at 235whp with his eaton m62. and from what i read, he is modded about the same as sc/alero. so 65 more wheel hp (which is about 100 crank) is what your claiming?

what have you done to assume you got another 100 HP?

[sc/alero]

Originally posted by germ+Apr 1 2005, 06:46 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(germ @ Apr 1 2005, 06:46 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-sc/alero@Apr 1 2005, 05:08 PM
cash wise or what? total $$$$i have about 3000 power wise approx 300 to the ground
Quoted post



:wtf:


you sure about that? 300 whp is a LOT more than any other SC alero/grand am has put down to the wheels.

hell, IIRC, you can only go down about .3" on your pulley before the SC is beyond its efficiancy range.

phantom505 only got 265 at the wheel with 9 psi of turbo boost.


not that i doubt you car has power, but 300 wheel HP is gonna get you MUCH faster times than a 13.8


:beerchug:
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]
i will find my dyno sheets. i just moved and am getting married on the 16th once things cool down i will get them posted for you. hell john even had 275 or 285 with nitrous. 300 is not unheard of trust me

[sc/alero]

Originally posted by germ@Apr 3 2005, 09:20 AM
voodo, check your records man. spaz ran a 104mph trap. my 106mph is higher. and i have the 3400 engine that came from a 03 grand am, not the 3.4 DOHC engine that only came in 95-97 Z34's only. NO Monte LS EVER had the 3.4 DOHC, so you better check that record to and double check with your brother.



sc/alero, im not saying 300 whp is unachievable at all, im just saying that your setup and a water/air IC and DHP is not going to give you 100 more HP.

and i know what John's car can do, im not questioning that, im questioning YOUR reasoning for claiming 300 whp, thats all. and why wont you say what your mods are? seriously, ANYONE that has any knowledge of these engines allready know what mods are available so copying you or your setup or anyone elses setup is not that hard to figure out. what are you afraid of? someone like me telling you that your 300 whp and your mods dont add up?

proof is in the pudding and you can claim you have something without at least backing up with a mod list. i mean, i can see your pics of the M62 S/C that only pushes ~7psi stock and is on the limit of boost already, so switching pully sizes isnt going to do much for volumetric efficiancy.

so even if you were to have headers, p&p intakes and tb, and head work, and exhaust your still not picking up 100 crank hp from that because your S/C is allready at its limits of peak HP potential.

im not saying your dont have a fast alero or high hp, im just saying that claiming 300 WHEEL HP is gonna take a bit more than that S/C is going to put out.

read.... http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/en...hargers/M62.asp (http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/superchargers/M62.asp)


their own site tells you your not going to get much from that supercharger.


sorry
Quoted post

germ don't be all butt hurt. i said after i get married on the 16th and get my poop unpacked i will post the sheets.

as for the list of mods i was only joking you want my list here they are:
ported upper, liqiud to air I/C, headers, ported heads, ported T/B, slp exhaust, no cat, dhp PCM, ICCU, 2.2 pulley, msd ignition, trans intercepter, msd dis-4, colder pulgs that is all i remeber right now.
as for the actual power if i remeber right and again i will post the sheet i think it was 289 hp. i mean if we need to get technical then there you go. i just rounded up to make it easier. i don't want anyone to get butt hurt :cry: about lieing numbers


you are correct as well it is not hard to figure out what can or has been done to make power.
it is all good it is for the comunity correct? or is it personal?

[jamcllw]

What elevation did you dyno at? I bet you'd get real close if not over 300 if you were at sea level.

[sc/alero]

the dyno's are alt corrected so i am still a bit shy

[Oldsman]

Simple List

Fastest Aleros.........
Boosted...
Springs
s/c alero
homegrown
nyugen

N/A...
redog
mfuller

[germ]

alt corrected huh?


what was your ACTUAL wheel HP, non corrected.

do the alt corrected 1/4 time slips count? just wondering.

[Alerosince99]

Originally posted by Oldsman@Apr 4 2005, 10:53 AM
Simple List

Fastest Aleros.........
Boosted...
Springs
s/c alero
homegrown
nyugen

N/A...
redog
mfuller
Quoted post



Come on Oldsman dont dog me like that. :P Im gonna get mine to the track before putting it away for the summer. I want an NA timeslip before... ;)

[Oldsman]

that is based off current and past stats. so get some timeslips.

[SilverBullet256]

man, my poast got deleted, hmmmm, o well i basically said the4 same thing as oldsman but with a few different people

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by germ@Apr 2 2005, 11:01 AM
hey, we can bench talk all day long. but until someone puts out a dyno sheet, all we can do is speculate and compare what other sc 3400's are putting out. the problem with 300 WHEEL hp from that setup is that you have to go to a much smaller pulley, and when you do that, the SC that is in that kit is NOT effective and will start boost stacking which will not make more power, but makes more heat and detonation.

if i remember right, Aaron from GAGT.com is only at 235whp with his eaton m62. and from what i read, he is modded about the same as sc/alero. so 65 more wheel hp (which is about 100 crank) is what your claiming?

what have you done to assume you got another 100 HP?




Sc is the only other 3400 owner to run an intercooler witht he sc.
i have dyno runs laying arround that i've posted before that show the gains at the wheels with the intercooler and no tune producing a hair above 260 hp at the wheels. Sc has had more time with it, a smaller pulley, now tunning, and me still helping it along. his car is much stronger than mine was when I did the 262 pull.
sc and I have tried more things with this sc setup than almost every other E/M owner combined. We are able to match times of guys running sc and nitrous or sc and internals with just the sc. Now we are pushing ahead to get as much as possilbe from the little 62. Personally I lost intrest in the 62 for my car because I knew its full potential would be far under my goal.

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by germ@Apr 3 2005, 09:20 AM
voodo, check your records man.Â;-) spaz ran a 104mph trap.Â;-) my 106mph is higher.Â;-) and i have the 3400 engine that came from a 03 grand am, not the 3.4 DOHC engine that only came in 95-97 Z34's only.Â;-) NO Monte LS EVER had the 3.4 DOHC, so you better check that record to and double check with your brother.



sc/alero, im not saying 300 whp is unachievable at all, im just saying that your setup and a water/air IC and DHP is not going to give you 100 more HP.

and i know what John's car can do, im not questioning that, im questioning YOUR reasoning for claiming 300 whp, thats all.Â;-) and why wont you say what your mods are?Â;-) seriously, ANYONE that has any knowledge of these engines allready know what mods are available so copying you or your setup or anyone elses setup is not that hard to figure out.Â;-) what are you afraid of? someone like me telling you that your 300 whp and your mods dont add up?Â;-)

proof is in the pudding and you can claim you have something without at least backing up with a mod list.Â;-) i mean, i can see your pics of the M62 S/C that only pushes ~7psi stock and is on the limit of boost already, so switching pully sizes isnt going to do much for volumetric efficiancy.Â;-)

so even if you were to have headers, p&p intakes and tb, and head work, and exhaust your still not picking up 100 crank hp from that because your S/C is allready at its limits of peak HP potential.

im not saying your dont have a fast alero or high hp, im just saying that claiming 300 WHEEL HP is gonna take a bit more than that S/C is going to put out.Â;-)

read....Â;-) http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/en...hargers/M62.asp (http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/superchargers/M62.asp)


their own site tells you your not going to get much from that supercharger.

We've seen as high as 15 psi out of the eaton. (not even going to say the pulley size) I've seen outlet temps from the sc over 200 degrees and temps out of the intercooler below 70 on a hot summer day.
I was told putting an intercooler on the eaton would be next to impossible and would take lots of time and money. my prottotype was done in 3 days and did not cost as much as some may think.
As far as mods go... Unless you go through me or disect sc's car there is no way you can copy him. I've spelled things out to help other members and they have not been able to duplicate my results. There are many things that you can't see in high detail in pics under our hoods for a reason.
and as for whats on the market...
Well a manual trans for the alero V6 does not exzist, there is currently no aftermarket NEW cam available, there is no twin screw supercharger, very few internal componets available off the shelf, And these are just a few of the things you will find on my car.
If you think sc's numbers are hard to swallow with his setup, there is no point in me telling you what my car will do at altititude let alone sea-level.
I'm to the point I'm not even going to bother trying to post slips, dyno numbers, or vids. No one will belive them anyway. Heck it took over a year for people to swallow what I was doing with the sc before. Now S/C alero is learning what I went through. and has some understanding why I raised the bar on my car as high as I did. No one expects it, no one thinks it can do that much, and the more you doubt us the more it pushes me to move forward with the project. We have some goals with sc's setup before we raise the bar, and the guidelines are very strict.
Reaching the goals with the current sc will not be easy but if anyone can pull it off its us. expect a 13 second time slip this season above 5,280 ft.

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by germ@Apr 4 2005, 09:55 AM
alt corrected huh?


what was your ACTUAL wheel HP, non corrected.

do the alt corrected 1/4 time slips count? just wondering.
Quoted post

unless you say other wise ALL dynos even at sea level run a correction.
all i will post though when my car is done is my uncorrected raw numbers. after all I don't live at sea level and dont race there so I want my hp numbers in my town (6,000+ft above sealevel) that and I dont really want people to know the cars full potential.

[germ]

springs, i never questioned your setup. so lets make that clear.

second of all, as for a copy of his mods (aside from the IC), they all can be done. if your talking about your heads that you make, easily copiable, your ported intakes, copiable, etc....

seriously, anything you can do to the engine, anyone can do, its common knowledge.

i personnally saw a set of heads you sent off to someone. not hard to match the quality. ive seen intakes that you have done. not hard to match.

other than head work and intake work, whats left for the engine? custom pistons (not hard to get made), shot peened rods, knife edged crank (or forged if you want to spend $1000). you cant upgrade the oil pump since the 3400 has a good one anyway. you can upgrade to clevite main bearings. you can do ARP studs all over the engine. copper head gaskets and o-ringing the block. bigger throttle body.

externally you have an ignition upgrade, AFPR, plugs, wires, etc....


did i miss something?

all i am getting at is besides the custom s/c stuff the availability of stuff is there, if you want it. its no secret.



as for dyno's, i was not aware that "all dynos are corrected", which i believe to be false. because there is a dyno correction factor on dyno jets, and where i dyno, they do it straight up, no corrections. the only thing they do is smoothing so each line is not jumpy.

maybe they all do it up there, but no everywhere else, sorry.

back to the eaton....

i never said that you cant see 15psi from the m62, im saying your boosting over the efficiancy range of that supercharger, unless you put in new rotors and ported the hell out of it.

and if i recall correctly and from the info ive read the past couple days, the M62 that is being used on the Cobalt is not the same "version" as the M62's that were sent out with those S/C kits for the N body. the cobalts is a newer updated version from what i have read and its max psi rating is 12psi (but of course you can go over it, but again, you will be out of its efficiancy range).

and depending on what M62 was used for the kits, the 2.2 pully is about as small as you can go without causing some serious heat and over spinning of that S/C. and if its not that version of the M62, then a 2.5 pully is about as small as you can go.

its amazing the info that is out there for the M62 since its so popular on the old Series 1 L67's. and im pretty sure those guys know that S/C pretty well, along with eaton that is even saying your past its recomended efficiancy.

and i thought you guys already had a 13.8 time slip??? or was that Altitude Corrected too???



and like i said in a previous post that was deleted for some ungodly reason....

im glad there is competion. if there werent competion and doubters, then there wouldnt be anyone doing anything to these engines to make them faster.

personally, i hold no grudges or hate towards anyone, i may come off harsh and blunt, but i speak my mind. if someone were to beat around the bush, that only wastes my time and yours, and if i come right out and say it, we get to the point much quicker.

[sc/alero]

the 13.8 was at heartland raceway and no it was not corrected it was what was ran at that track.

read your own words "which i believe to be false. because there is a dyno correction factor on dyno jets, and where i dyno, they do it straight up, no corrections." inyour own words they use a correction factor all dyno's use a correction factor. the tracks don't use anything it is run what you brung it has been that way for years

[germ]

read between the lines SC and read up on dyno jets.....

the correction factor can be set to "0"

all dyno's should have a correction factor, wether or not they use it is up to the shop. and shops around me dont use the correction factor.



by the way, by manipulating the correction factor on dyno's is how manufactures can claim 20hp from a cold air intake and be "dyno proven"

might want to read up on that too.


do i need to clarify anymore of my statements?

[sc/alero]

^^^ why do you need to be an ass about things. i know you said you are straight to the point and all which is fine i respect everyones opinions and input you just pretty much just down grade who,whatever you feel the need to if it insults, or offends you personal being. you know you stuff about turbos and what/what can not be done with the motor we are running. nobody doubts that. i don't. if i have to read between the lines and i know what you are talking about how do you expect someone who does not have a clue to read between the lines. again we are getting of topic

[germ]

sc/alero, dont act like you havent been an ass at all? how many times did you make derogatory comments to me? a few. not once have i made derogatory statements toward you or anyone else. corrected false info, yes, blunt, yes, open, yes, downgrading, no, derogatory, no, personal, no, bashing, no,

to bad all your posts that did say something derogatory to me got deleted.

i have freely stated my opinion and will continue to do so since this is a free world and freedom of speech is still accepted. if the mods feel that is unacceptle, thats fine, its their job to censor what is typed, so i like to keep them busy, especially if the site is one that doesnt allow free thinking and free speech. will me saying what i think get me banned, probably not, will me bashing you and calling you names and things like that, sure it will, it would get anyone banned. but to bad im not doing anything like that to warrant a ban.

so i will continue...

and about someone not understanding what is said, hahahha, thats just to funny that you think i am talking over peoples heads so they wont understand, hahahaha. SOMEONE will ALWAYS not understand, even if you were to type out, step by step, how many turns each bolt takes, with pictures, SOMEONE will ALWAYS not understand.

and by telling you to read between the lines, im putting you at a higher level by thinking you SHOULD be able to read between the lines and not be so hypocritical. of course dynos have a correction factor, but using it is the choice of the shop. i mean, i typed out "no corrections were used" implying that there was no correction factor used, plain and simple.


so dont act like im doing something im not.

and it seems like your the one that is getting all bent out of shape, just because someone with a little bit of knowledge is questioning your stuff, instead of just accepting what you say. seems to me that you cant take critisism at all and your the one that is getting defensive because i dont take your word about what you claim. i mean, you did lie about your HP's, you have super secret mods that no one can know about, you get pissy if anyone questions your setup or your claims. and it seems like some people now have good reason to question you. since one of your big claims seems to have fizzled and blown up in your face. if you claim 300 whp, you better sure as hell produce a 300 ACTUAL whp, not rounded up or corrected, or someone like me is gonna come around and call you on your bluff.

so now it seems like you've got a personal grudge against me, just because i was the one to call you out.

i can live with that.

can you?

[Alerosince99]

:popc1:

[sc/alero]

germ
i have no issues with any of this like i had stated several times as well. it is not personal nor is this thread. you did what you felt was right. enough said. i don't care.

as for a non-corrected dyno all the dyno's here use sealevel correct hp i can provide one for my alt if that is what is needed. but it won't be the 300 due to the fact of my alt. is this acceptable? i am not sure where you are at as far as ft above sea level by the sounds of it you are pretty close.

i also have not made derogatory until just this morning. you are blowing all out of porportion. i have no secret mods i listed them all for you and as stated before i was only giving you a hard time before this got this far.

personaly i don't care there is ALWAYS going to be someone faster, more power more everything than what i have. so what is the point in getting upset.

as far as me lying about my numbers i was only tring to make it simple you did not "CALL ME OUT" on this i admited the true numbers with no agrument what so ever. you are correct that there is always going to be someone who is not going to understand but why make it more difficult than it needs to be.

Again i have no problems with you, just the comments and the way you put things. some people just don't understand that is all.

[germ]

ok, i will simmer down and TRY to be a little bit "nicer" and not so blunt.



but let me ask something...

if your not hiding your mods from public view, then why did your partner say this...


As far as mods go... Unless you go through me or disect sc's car there is no way you can copy him. I've spelled things out to help other members and they have not been able to duplicate my results. There are many things that you can't see in high detail in pics under our hoods for a reason.


We've seen as high as 15 psi out of the eaton. (not even going to say the pulley size)


?????


and i will give you the benifit of the doubt about "lying" about your HP #'s and i will step back on that claim. but for simplicity sake, 289 and 300 are both 3 keystrokes, so one shouldnt be harder to type than the other. and 300 whp is one of those goals that a few people have, its like a plateau for some, and unless you actually did 300whp (and i dont car about the corrected factor), i dont see how you can claim to be part of the 300 whp "club". like i mentioned in another thread that was deleted, you cant claim 13's unless you run a 13. 14.0 is not 13's, so i cant say i ran a 13. its the same principle, thats ALL im saying.

as for dyno correction, personally, i dont give a sh*t about it, because i care about time slips. but i do look at it like this.... most car forums dont accept alt corrected timeslips because its not accurate, i view alt corrected dyno slips the same way. i dont agree with them. you said it best, race what you brung. dyno what you have. you have 5000 elevation, sorry, but your uncorrected dyno is your actual dyno #'s. and by you saying that i would have gotten "xxx" if i were in florida on the beach is similar to me saying that if i had a better track to race at i would have gotten my 13 sec run. but i didnt and until i get to that better track or put down a 13 sec run, then i cant claim so.

thats just how i look at it, because your limited to you elevation, and i am limited to my tracks. similar situation.

now as for my location, i am in Minnesota, elevation is ~950 for minneapolis. no where near sea level. and the track i race at is Ceder Falls, IA which is 959ft above sea level, and your Heartland track is 1000 ft above sea level (if its the same one in Topeka Kansas that i think your talking about).

[sc/alero]

the reason he says that is becuase with out good pics or any type of knowledge of what your looking at you would not be able to dup it. like you had said i could list every nut and how many turns but someone still would not understand that is all.

as for the numbers we will see this year at the track and what not and we can go with the "run what you brung" rule i too can set aside my differences and just call it a day and get back to the topic at hand

deal?


and you are correct with the track it is topeka ks

[germ]

you got a deal SC.

im not out to make enemies or to E fight or be an E thug, and i will never ever deny the respect you deserve for doing what you have, or anyone else. remember, i have tried to help you out before when you wanted imput on your 4t65 swap you were planning. even though you didnt agree with what i was saying, i tried to be respectfull of what you were doing because you were "thinking outside the box" and THAT i do respect.

and as long as we have a compareable track to compare with, which we do, i can set aside what has been said for some friendly competion.

with that being said, what are your goals for the Topeka track this season?

[sc/alero]

Originally posted by germ@Apr 5 2005, 11:17 AM
you got a deal SC.

im not out to make enemies or to E fight or be an E thug, and i will never ever deny the respect you deserve for doing what you have, or anyone else. remember, i have tried to help you out before when you wanted imput on your 4t65 swap you were planning. even though you didnt agree with what i was saying, i tried to be respectfull of what you were doing because you were "thinking outside the box" and THAT i do respect.

and as long as we have a compareable track to compare with, which we do, i can set aside what has been said for some friendly competion.

with that being said, what are your goals for the Topeka track this season?
Quoted post

I AM PLANNING ON 13.8'S HERE AT 6000 FT AND MID TO LOW 13'S AT TOPEKA BUT THAT WILL NOT BE UNTIL OCTOBER OR SO

[sc/alero]

^^^ oopps cap locks i hate them

[germ]

im hoping for low 13's out of the gate in the next few weeks depending on how some family things pan out.

by october, im hoping to be in the 12's at least, if not low 12's.

ive done quite a bit mods since the 14.0 run and fixed a lot of other issues i was having.

i just have to get a tranny that will hold the power and then take it to the dyno and tune it up. and i am hoping to pull at least 325 wheel hp out of it and around 400 wtq. hopefully!


and like i said in some other posts before (which i think are gone now), i REALLY think you should be able to pull better than 13's from your setup (in topeka). i honestly think if you get the right conditions i think you could pull 12's too (get that speed limiter removed).

[sc/alero]

i would love to get 12's but it just is not realistic i don't have the internals for it i am more than happy will mid to low thirteens i would be even happier if it can be done here at alt but i am not getting my hopes up.

i don't know we will see what happens. i need to get that 65e in which is still in the process.

[germ]

what kind of 60' times did you get the last time out?

lower 60's own E.T.'s lol. just shaving a couple tenths off yoru 60's will yeild ~.5 from the E.T.

im really hoping my 4000 stall torque converter does do the trick for the 60's.

i pulled a 2.4 60' last time and im hoping for a 2.0 60' this season (if not better).

[Alerosince99]

Originally posted by germ@Apr 5 2005, 01:59 PM
what kind of 60' times did you get the last time out?

lower 60's own E.T.'s lol. just shaving a couple tenths off yoru 60's will yeild ~.5 from the E.T.

im really hoping my 4000 stall torque converter does do the trick for the 60's.

i pulled a 2.4 60' last time and im hoping for a 2.0 60' this season (if not better).
Quoted post


I know in rwd cars, a stall will make a huge differance in the 60' with good tires. I would hope you could drop below 2 with that high a stall.

[SilverBullet256]

:popc1: :new_all_coholic:

[springs fastest alero]

(reply to germ's post on page 2)


my setup and SC's were pretty much one and the same. his intercooler is the exact one that was on my car. we just took it further.
as far as mods go. there were many things on my car that were taken further than the "production pieces" I sold. I'm sorry but I'd be crazy to sell my lowers for 175 if I put the same amount of time I did in to my own.
think of the one I sold as a stage one and the one for me as a stage 4. I spent over 12 hrs on my lower just on port work. Now its at the place that did my heads and he is taking it further. I had one set of heads done for a customer and they had larger intake valves as well as a host of comp cams valve train components.
Those heads were flowed and so was the set going on my engine. the numbers do not match and my numbers will not be released.
As far as internals go, yes you can get forged pistons easily, but without knowing my specs you cant get the same ones I have, my rods are forged but without knowing what line they are and from who, you cant get the same ones. Also my motor is stroked 10mm over and the block is bored a little as well. Yes with some resurch I'm sure you could copy that. As for the oil pump mine is upgraded and they are readily available.

I'll tell you what mods are on my car but I'm not going to give all the specs of everything. I put lots of time and resurch into this project I'm not going to hand over all of my findings to just anyone. SC told you all his mods and there is nothing secret with what mods are on the car. but we are not going to go down the hundreds of dyno pulls we've done between the two cars and tell you what tunning was done to get what numbers, 1) that would take up pages, 2) not many would have a clue what we were talking about, 3) we took the time to fine tune it, only way you will get there is by spending some time yourself. As for the pulley size comment, if sc wants to release that he can. mostly I didnt because I don't want all the "your crazy, thats spinning it too fast, etc"

bottom line is, you could build an engine with like parts but duplicating my results with out knowing every last spec of everything would be next to impossible. this is why our results vary from the rest.
On uncorrected dyno numbers... I was curious to what my car was doing up here on the day I dynoed. I had him show me the raw results of my 272 whp run, in denver the car was making a little over 220 whp on that day. this was impressive to me because it matched the corrected numbers of hp's turbo kit on low boost.

the reason we want corrected numbers used is because it puts us the same as everyone else, So that way you dont get the, "you have all those mods and thats all that car will do" remarks. SC got fed up with it so he went to a lower elevation track to prove what the car could do. Personally I'm just building a car that will beat all the sealevel times up here. I live up here not down there. I want my car to be impressive to the rest of the country at this altitude and make them sick if I take it to a lower elevation.

on the dyno subect, one of my friends was a tech for superflow and his job was calibrating dynos and flow benches. so I've learned much from him about that.
they run a correction based on barometric pressure, temp, etc. this is so the results are more stable. he told me that its much easier to tune with corrected numbers than uncorrected because it gives you ideal results useable for every day. also so you can compare results from one day to the next. other wise temp outside, baro of the day and all that come into play. you could gain or loose 5 hp or more just based on the time of day. this would make it really hard to see if you gained or lost from any mods or tunning done. raw numbers are just for seeing exactly what you make at that time, temp, geographical location, and on that dyno. They are horrible for tunning on.

on the eaton subject, you siad the 62 was not capable of the power we have got out of it and even posted links to eatons site. I dont recall you bringing up efficency untill now.
I know its not efficent and what we have pushed it to. (why do you think I dropped it?) But we have been able to get the desired power for his car out of it.
your right about the cobalt, it uses a gen 5 which is susposed to flow better. Not sure on the exact differences though.
and the 62 on the series 1 supercharged 3800 was also different it was a gen 3. the one my friend had didnt even have coated rotors.
the gen4 (used in the production model of the E/M kit) is said to be more efficent than the gen3.

his 13.8 slip was in kansas. grandamgt.com does not accept altitude corrections even though its good enough for nhra. So we dont post corrected times

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by germ@Apr 5 2005, 06:58 AM



by the way, by manipulating the correction factor on dyno's is how manufactures can claim 20hp from a cold air intake and be "dyno proven"

might want to read up on that too.



Quoted post


most dynos on products that make claims like that are by independant "testors"
they have to make that much power on at least one of the intkaes the offer or they can be busted for false advertising. granted this wont stop some companies from making stupid claims.
we all know your not going to see 15 hp from a drop in air filter on our car.
on a vette however.... lets just say their stock intakes have much room for improvement. minor mods to a ZO6 will yeild rather large increases in hp and track times. I've seen this personally.

[germ]

springs....

first of all, i dont want your specs nor ever asked for them nor do i plan to copy your mods nor do i care what type of rod or piston or whatever else you've done or doing.

again, i never questioned YOU, so please dont think i am trying to drill you for info. i dont want your info, just the fact that you say thats what your doing is fine, keep your research and development, ive got my own R&D as well.

and just as an FYI, i have mentioned the efficancy range MANY times before that post you read. however many of my posts that actually delt with the topic at hand were deleted along with a few others. so yea, i have mentioned the efficiancy of that S/C before.

and as i said before, i am glad you guys are taking the "game" to a new level, this is what this community needs, competition.


and about the dyno's, i know what your saying about tuning and such, but in all honesty, who really has the type of cash flow to spend it on hundreds of dyno pulls? me personally, i rent the dyno for an hour or two and do my tuning in one day and it always seems to work out ok for me and everyone else i know that dyno tunes.

and how many people you know REALLY go to a dyno after they add a mod? hell, i dont. maybe 1 in 1000 people. so when dyno results are posted for a particular product, i really dont pay attention to the exact HP gains because they are always skewed. a dyno in March is not the same as a dyno in July. i really never pay attention to dyno #'s, or i should say i dont relay solely on dyno #'s.

running at the track is the proof in the pudding, not a dyno.

[bu01]

nightracer from n-body.net and malibuclub.ca is saying that he has 500+ fwhp on c16 and about 450 on premium. he is cool but he hesnt posted a dyno sheet, time slips and he refuses to show a p[ic of his engine bay but i will see if i can get him to post a dyno sheet

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by germ@Apr 7 2005, 05:58 AM
springs....

first of all, i dont want your specs nor ever asked for them nor do i plan to copy your mods nor do i care what type of rod or piston or whatever else you've done or doing.

again, i never questioned YOU, so please dont think i am trying to drill you for info. i dont want your info, just the fact that you say thats what your doing is fine, keep your research and development, ive got my own R&D as well.

and just as an FYI, i have mentioned the efficancy range MANY times before that post you read. however many of my posts that actually delt with the topic at hand were deleted along with a few others. so yea, i have mentioned the efficiancy of that S/C before.

and as i said before, i am glad you guys are taking the "game" to a new level, this is what this community needs, competition.


and about the dyno's, i know what your saying about tuning and such, but in all honesty, who really has the type of cash flow to spend it on hundreds of dyno pulls? me personally, i rent the dyno for an hour or two and do my tuning in one day and it always seems to work out ok for me and everyone else i know that dyno tunes.

and how many people you know REALLY go to a dyno after they add a mod? hell, i dont. maybe 1 in 1000 people. so when dyno results are posted for a particular product, i really dont pay attention to the exact HP gains because they are always skewed. a dyno in March is not the same as a dyno in July. i really never pay attention to dyno #'s, or i should say i dont relay solely on dyno #'s.

running at the track is the proof in the pudding, not a dyno.
Quoted post


first glad you dont want my specs because you would never get them anyway.

second you questioned SC's setup which happens to be exactly what I used to run before my new project so questioning him is questioning what i did. its one and the same. he has just taken it further than i did.

on the dyno subject... owning a business i can write off the dynos as R&D. and with the tunning we did and hr just isnt enough time so we split a whole day.
if you get a few cars to do this it cost about what an hr will and gives you way more time.

not all cars are built for the quarter mile

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by bu01@Apr 9 2005, 08:43 PM
nightracer from n-body.net and malibuclub.ca is saying that he has 500+ fwhp on c16 and about 450 on premium. he is cool but he hesnt posted a dyno sheet, time slips and he refuses to show a p[ic of his engine bay but i will see if i can get him to post a dyno sheet
Quoted post


id have to call bs on this one

[germ]

Originally posted by springs fastest alero+Apr 10 2005, 12:28 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(springs fastest alero @ Apr 10 2005, 12:28 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>first glad you dont want my specs because you would never get them anyway.Quoted post
[/b]


you've mentioned before that you wont release your info, fine, i said that i didnt want it.

no need to get sh*tty about it

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by springs fastest alero@Apr 10 2005, 12:28 PM
second you questioned SC's setup which happens to be exactly what I used to run before my new project so questioning him is questioning what i did. its one and the same. he has just taken it further than i did.Quoted post


i questioned his claimed HP #'s, which i was right about, so again, i didnt question your setup and if you would have claimed 300 whp with the same stuff, i would have questioned you too.

<!--QuoteBegin-springs fastest alero@Apr 10 2005, 12:28 PM
on the dyno subject... owning a business i can write off the dynos as R&D. and with the tunning we did and hr just isnt enough time so we split a whole day.
if you get a few cars to do this it cost about what an hr will and gives you way more time.

not all cars are built for the quarter mile
Quoted post
[/quote]


glad to know that your in the 1% of people on the internet that has a business and can write that stuff off.

i wish that you would see that i am not directing anything towards you personally, and i wish that you would stop taking it so literal.






and personally, i dont see how a few people can go in together and rent a dyno for a full day (8 hrs), which is roughly around $1200 plus extra if you want wideband O2 and/or boost reference. so 1200 / 4 people = 300 each plus 50 for WBO2 and 50 for boost reference = 400 for 2 hours worth of dyno time which includes your hook up time and unhook time, so roughly 1.5 hours for 400.

normally, i schedule my appointment for 1 hour of dyno time ($75 plus WBO2) for $100 and i get 1 hour of DYNO time, there is no hook up time loss.

in order to make it worth someones time to do a dyno day, there must be a LOT of cars to pitch in, then that means there is quite a bit of time used for hooking up and unhooking each car.

for most people, renting a dyno for a day will not work out for TUNING, but just to get an idea of your HP, yea, a dyno day is great, but only if you dont want to do squat for tuning.

and that is only for my area, not sure what shops charge up there in colorado.

and i dont see how you cant tune a car in an hour. you can easily make 7-20 pulls within an hour, flashing the PCM takes 45 seconds to do.

so i dont see any relivance to sitting your car on a dyno for 3 hours when you dont need to IMO

[springs fastest alero]

I wasn't getting poopty about it, just being straight forward like you.
As for the dyno day it didnt even cost us half that and we had wide band on all pulls. The shop we went to cuts a deal for the day. buying like 4 hrs for 2 cars would cost more than getting the whole day. and that way we had the extra time if needed.
as for how long we took.. well we try several combos for the best power with a safe air fuel. also its nice to not rush and be able to play arround a little.