Turbo

[BlackJack]

alright, anyone out there, what's the hot new setup for turbo apps on the 3400 V6, and does it require beefed internals or other method of reducing the stock compression....expecting to hit AT LEAST 7k on the tach, and possibly putting in a zex wet nitrous kit with computer controlled delivery adjusted for bottle pressure at some point.

Need to know if I'm going to have to fork out much more than for just a turbo kit.

Option B:

Purchase a snail from the junk yard and build a custom turbo setup....I have more time than money for fabing the pipes.

[RAVAGE214]

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/99-04%20Grand%20Am.htm

you can run 6-8 psi on stock internaly with out TOO MANY problems.

this kit is also sold somewhere else for like 3k or 2.5k, also id go with alc injection, because there chip wont work for you.

[Cliff8928]

7,000 RPM is the maximum recommended on the stock connecting rods.

[mike2002]

if your running 7k, turbo and nitrous, i give your engine 2,000 miles....LOL


the whole drivetrain needs to be upgraded for 7k, i think it would ruin your engine, severe valve float

[BlackJack]

Originally posted by mike2002@Mar 23 2005, 09:52 PM
if your running 7k, turbo and nitrous, i give your engine 2,000 miles....LOL


the whole drivetrain needs to be upgraded for 7k, i think it would ruin your engine, severe valve float
Quoted post


alright, so dual valve springs are definitely in order,
I hear forged bottom end setups aren't cheap either...

[-Alero-]

the whole damn project isnt cheap period. thats why i say if you want a turbo car, you buy one.

[Spilner521]

Originally posted by RAVAGE214@Mar 23 2005, 09:23 PM
also id go with alc injection, because there chip wont work for you.
Quoted post



"alc" i'm guessing means alcohol injection? and i'm guessing you mean to cool down the intake charge? why not just use an intercooler...this is a turbo setup not a roots supercharger.

[germ]

the stock valve train and bottem end will not handle 7000 rpms.

you are going to need a LOT more than some strong springs. i.e. cam, pistons, rods, crank, etc.....

i would only take the engine to ~6300-6500 MAX with some strong springs (i.e. LS6). a pushrod engine is not ment to be a high rev'er.

you do not need to do anything else to the motor other than ensure your heads are flat and making a good seal on the block.

and you will not need any n2o

and no turbo you can pull from the junk yard is gonna be a good match for the 3400 (MAYBE a desiel turbo, but then again its a hit or miss on the turbo specs and if they would be a good match)



if you get a properly sized turbo, intercooler, PCM management like the DHP Powertuner, you can safely run 10 psi which is good for at least 300 crank HP.

the thing i would worry about before all else, is the tranny.

your tranny will die most likely before the engine.

[RAVAGE214]

Heres some good info on Alcohol injection. It can be ussed similar to a turbo N2 system.

[BlackJack]

Originally posted by germ@Mar 24 2005, 08:28 AM
you do not need to do anything else to the motor other than ensure your heads are flat and making a good seal on the block.

if you get a properly sized turbo, intercooler, PCM management like the DHP Powertuner, you can safely run 10 psi which is good for at least 300 crank HP.
Quoted post


alright, now what kind of 1/4 times should I estimate with the above mods....assuming just a stock (not stripped down) 4dr with no aftermarket sound system, factory wheels, and a B&M shift plus as the only other specs?
If I can't resonably hit the 12's without shelling excess of 10k under the hood, I'm scrapping the whole project and buying the car I passed over before, cuz it will.

Dont laugh, I'm not experienced at GM's YET. My mechanical experience was in building 11sec VW Beetles back in the 80's. poop's more expensive nowdays, and newer race technology. And I about had to clean out the drawers when I found out that a billet crank alone was about 2 grand. What's the world coming to? Guess racing is now only for those that are independently wealthy, or sell crack.

[kwhauck]

Originally posted by BlackJack+Mar 24 2005, 03:03 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlackJack @ Mar 24 2005, 03:03 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-germ@Mar 24 2005, 08:28 AM
you do not need to do anything else to the motor other than ensure your heads are flat and making a good seal on the block.

if you get a properly sized turbo, intercooler, PCM management like the DHP Powertuner,Â;-) you can safely run 10 psi which is good for at least 300 crank HP.
Quoted post


alright, now what kind of 1/4 times should I estimate with the above mods....assuming just a stock (not stripped down) 4dr with no aftermarket sound system, factory wheels, and a B&M shift plus as the only other specs?
If I can't resonably hit the 12's without shelling excess of 10k under the hood, I'm scrapping the whole project and buying the car I passed over before, cuz it will.

Dont laugh, I'm not experienced at GM's YET. My mechanical experience was in building 11sec VW Beetles back in the 80's. poop's more expensive nowdays, and newer race technology. And I about had to clean out the drawers when I found out that a billet crank alone was about 2 grand. What's the world coming to? Guess racing is now only for those that are independently wealthy, or sell crack.
Quoted post
[/b][/quote]

you won't hit 12s with 10k guaranteed, unless you got some connections and can fab up a lot of custom poop.....even then you are pushing it, 12s are unheard of as of yet for aleros or grandams......

[kwhauck]

although with a good turbo setup and proper computer tuning you should be able to run high 13s, can't say how long your tranny will last though, i personally am working with mike on a custom tranny swap for both his supercharged alero and my turbo alero.......

[BlackJack]

so with an Alero, I'm doomed to get stomped by the above average ricers?

[kwhauck]

not necessarily, i would consider an above average ricer to run low 14s, high 13s, you also have to take into account that turbos are also fairly new to the alero/grandam world......deek from gagt.com is really the only turbo 1/4 times i have seen so far compared to a good number of supercharged times including mike (sc/alero) 13.8 in topeka, deek from gagt.com ran a 14.1 in Las Vegas with a custom non-intercooled, stock manifold turbo setup.........so 13s should be had fairly easily, after that is where the fun/hardwork/money will really count

[BlackJack]

alright, that's somewhat of a relief....I just wanna make sure I'm not throwing all this money in the toilet to find out that I can't get there from here.

Know the average local shop price for port/polish my existing heads/intakes? I am doing that next and dont wanna get ripped off....probably should also have a 7-angle valve job done while I'm at it.

[germ]

first of all, if a person were to have the ability to use their own hands then they can EASILY hit 12's for way less than 10k


you can get a turbo kit and run 12 psi (track only, w/ race gas) on a stock engine and get it to hit 12's. you will need to beef up the tranny in order to do it regularly.

a decent tranny "kit" would cost less than 3000 and a decent tranny would cost less than 4000 and thats PUSHING the limits of what it would cost.


me personally, i have done all the work on my car myself and saved a lot of money and learned a lot in the process.

for the engine mods and turbo setup i have spent MAYBE 1750 and a tranny to hold 12's cost around 1500 installed

but keep in mind ive done a lot of trial and error work and having a setup like this and the power it has, expect to have some downtime to work on the car and tune the car. no off the shelf PCM is going to work, your going to have to spend the loot on a Powertuner from DHP

[kwhauck]

f*** DHP.......

[sc/alero]

the dhp tuner is a good setup.... but with the hptuners you have a butt load more tuneability plus you can change the gear ratio's and what not to aid in the everyday driver. i personly have ran 15psi on my alero with the supercharger without any problems so the motor can take it, is it recommended no i would not recommend it. it did finally blow the motor but it was do to run a nitrous dry kit which pitted the pistons and caused them to fail.

evryone on this board is going to tell you what is the best setup and what will work and what won't trust me take it all with a grain assult. some people on here think they know everything and everyone and say they can do everything. ture if you have any mechanical experiance you can save a butt load as well which is what springs and i have done. my whole setup has costed me about 4000. that for the s/c intercooler the envoy injectors (which i strongly recommend. ebay is a great place) all i have to say is be very relaxed with what a lot of people have to say on here and ask the people who really know. you should be able to tell by their posts if the know or not

[kwhauck]

very well put Mike.......thanx......

[germ]

not sure where you got the info about changing gear ratios, but thats not done in the pcm. you can change the pcm to accept different gear ratios and DHP Powertuner DOES do that. the Powertuner is on par with the HPTuners suite and will be a much better tuner software in the coming months (keep in mind the powertuner has only been out for less than a year and is still upgrading and adding tons of other things, plus the support for DHP is free, unlike HPT where you have to pay more money for any upgrades to the software)

but hey, either one is fine, because you will need one or the other to tune the car the way its supposed to be tuned.




and i will expound on what was said earlier about listening to people....

listen to people that have actually DONE it and not to people that have thoughts about it. until you actually do it and take that leap of faith you cant really "know" about a turbo or s/c setup since they are so rare on the 3400 and until you do it you cant even imagine the type of setbacks, problems, and other things you will come accross. the only people that are going to know, are the ones that have done it or are doing it.

[BlackJack]

Originally posted by germ@Mar 24 2005, 08:18 PM
1) you can get a turbo kit and run 12 psi (track only, w/ race gas) on a stock engine and get it to hit 12's. you will need to beef up the tranny in order to do it regularly.

2) for the engine mods and turbo setup i have spent MAYBE 1750 and a tranny to hold 12's cost around 1500 installed

3) no off the shelf PCM is going to work, your going to have to spend the loot on a Powertuner from DHP
Quoted post


1) stop wasting money on race gas, seen this first hand on my buddies car, does NOT BOOST HP, it boosts octane for high compression use, he is getting 110 octane off normal pump gas. http://www.importpoweronline.com/catalog/p...products_id=265 (http://www.importpoweronline.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32_179&products_id=265)

2) ok, you got me sold on staying in with the Alero project, I assume at that low of an investment, that you got parts from ebay, and as you said, did alot of work yourself.

3) My GM mechanic recommends HyperTech tuner, have you heard of it, and is it any good, he says it's about $300.

[germ]

1. correct, race gase does not produce HP by itself, BUT with race gas you are able to add timing to give you more HP without causing KR (knock). Race gas also helps reduce KR so you dont loose the timing you already have. it also helps reduce detonation. so in a "back door" kind of way, it really does make HP

and i dont buy race gas. i make my own from Tulene or Xylene which commonly found in most paint sections at most hardware stores.

2. yes, some things are bought on ebay. like a BOV, silicone couplers, IC piping, etc....

3. Hypertech is basically a "boxed" PCM. you can choose from a couple different levels of performance, but you cannot choose what parimeters to change in order to modify your PCM enough to accept boost in ANY form. ONLY the Powertuner and HP Tuners will give you that ability. there are to many things you have to change and you cant do that with the hypertech unit and besides, hypertech doesnt offer anything remotely close to what you would need in order to get your car to run right without blowing up.

[sc/alero]

^^^^ agreed do not get hypertech not worth the money.
i stand corrected hptuners does not change the gears it aloows you to change perameters to accept the gear change. i guess i should have been a little more specfic i just figued everyone would know what i was talking about my bad.
with what i have done to my car i can run 13.9 or 14.1 up here at 5280 ft.
this year i hope to be in the mid 13s with a few other mods i have done. then i will go back toheartland in october and run it again to see if i can get low 13s there.

and again everyone is going to have their own opions some good and some bad just take it as it maybe

[-Alero-]

Germ for president! :thumbsup:

[germ]

hahah, for president, lol

i dont think i would fit the profile for that one


but thanks anyway.


sc/alero.....

i would think that you would be a little faster than that? how much PSI are you running with the s/c??? what other mods do you have besides the s/c kit? any tranny work?


i am hoping to pull some 12's out of my turbo setup this year (keep in mind, the monte carlo's weigh in at about 3500 lbs!). but i do have quite a few other mods to complement the turbo too.


one thing that i would HIGHLY suggest is getting a high stall torque converter. that thing will make one HELL of a diff. im using a 4000 stall and its still pretty streetable as well.

[sc/alero]

Originally posted by germ@Mar 25 2005, 02:28 PM
hahah, for president, lol

i dont think i would fit the profile for that one


but thanks anyway.


sc/alero.....

i would think that you would be a little faster than that? how much PSI are you running with the s/c??? what other mods do you have besides the s/c kit? any tranny work?


i am hoping to pull some 12's out of my turbo setup this year (keep in mind, the monte carlo's weigh in at about 3500 lbs!). but i do have quite a few other mods to complement the turbo too.


one thing that i would HIGHLY suggest is getting a high stall torque converter. that thing will make one HELL of a diff. im using a 4000 stall and its still pretty streetable as well.
Quoted post

all i have is
liquid intercooler from APOC
headers
slp exhaust
no cat
but remember i am at 5680 1 mile up. when i went to topeka i had a boost leak which didn't help plus there was no wet box to heat the tires up very well.
i am not one to make up excuses but being able to run 13 what ever or low 14's at this altitude i felt was pretty impressive.
i need tranny work that is why i am tring to go with the 4t65e. should make all the difference in the world.
my car weighs 3200 with me in it.
what does yours run currently.
this year the only thing i changed was i got a dhp with the iccu plus i have the hp tuners if i need to do another program. i should get what i need out of it this year. plus i have a guy who is working on making sure the ass end doesn't squat keeping the frt tire from rolling in and lossing contact patch

[germ]

Originally posted by sc/alero@Mar 25 2005, 04:59 PM
what does yours run currently.
Quoted post




well, the fastest i ran last year, and i am not the one to make excuses either, was a 14.0 @ 106 mph

that was with a slipping tranny (197,000 miles, stock)
the crossover had 2 very large cracks from poopty welds and no brace on the turbo (learned my lesson)
and a head gasket that blew 1 run later.

the only mods i had at the time was the turbo, DHP Powertuner, FFP UD pulley, 42.5# injectors, 10 psi

since then i have added....

4000 stall torque converter
tranny w/ 30,000 miles on it
shift kit
ported TB
ported intakes
ported heads
LS1 valve springs
polished valves
walbro 255lph fuel pump

and i will be running at least 12 psi at the track


im shooting for mid 12's

[Cliff8928]

Originally posted by germ@Mar 24 2005, 08:28 AM
a pushrod engine is not ment to be a high rev'er.

The issue with the high revving is more likely the transmissions than the engines, the new LS7 V8 doesn't cut fuel until 7100 RPM. That's 600 RPM higher than my Ecotec.

[BlackJack]

ok, so I'm going for a turbo system with ic, BOV and adjustable wg, high flow exhaust, Powertuner (or flexible variation), a cam, ported/polished heads/intake, ported throttle body, and modified or higher grade tranny/converter. Not trying to copy your mods, but if they are proven to achieve the times I'm trying for, why not go for it.

on a budget buying basically single components at a time, in what order would you recommend making those mods?

[germ]

the high reving might have something to do with your guys tranny's (4t40/45) but for the 4t60, the high rev's are not an issue since the tranny has been mated to the higher revving 3.4 DOHC engine for a long time.

but you CAN run the 3400 to 7000 rpms, its been done before, but im not sure how long they lasted or how often they ran it to 7k

i personally am shooting for 6500'ish rpms.





as for the order of purchases, it really doesnt matter, because they all will need to be bought at some point.

i just bought the big items at first because i had a large chunk of money and wanted to get that out of the way and not have to worry about it. then i slowly bought the smaller stuff as i found good deals on them.


one of the things i would recomend that you do is to determine what kind of boost you want (instant boost roasting tires or major top end and speed) and then buy the turbo.

DO NOT buy a junk yard turbo, but a good rebuilt one or a new one. there is an ebay seller by the name of down2turbo that sells turbos at a really good deal and then there is the infamous ssautochrome. i have bought from ssautochrome and i use a Master Power turbo i bought from him and have had ZERO complaints and everyone said that the turbo i got was HUGE, well its not and has performed flawlessly and provides full boost right at 3000 rpms.

its freaking banana's man

[BlackJack]

alright, sounds to me like I should start with a tranny upgrade first then so I dont trash my original one. A 4t60 would come out of what models, and is that the best one you would consider using, or is that just what was available to you?

I have an '03 GL, so if you could, let me know what modifications will have to be made for the tranny in question...(ie: custom mounts, cabling, wiring, etc.)

[-Alero-]

instead of P&P the TB and UIM / LIM from the 3400 i strongly suggest getting a UIM and LIM from a 3500 (malibu) and P&P the ports from that. also the TB fro mthe 3500 has better/improved linkage, and i believe is a 63 mm or 64 mm, i honestly forget. but yeah, getting the bigger parts and P&P should make a bigger difference. dont forget the gaskets :thumbsup:

[mike2002]

the 3500 is drive by wire, the 3400 is by cable, so i dont think the 3500 tb will even fit without serious modification

[BlackJack]

hell, sounds like a good place to start though, wonder if it's possible to hybrid the two TB's and come out with cable at the end? cuz even RSM's TB is only 62mm.

I'm not foreigner to custom work in general.

[-Alero-]

hmm, from what i read it worked but, i guess your right. i guess thats how its "improved" linkage.

[BlackJack]

Originally posted by -Alero-@Mar 28 2005, 02:14 AM
hmm, from what i read it worked but, i guess your right. i guess thats how its "improved" linkage.
Quoted post


what was it you read? I'm interested.

[-Alero-]

60 degree v6 website, and me and FormulaNerd talked about it. we tryed to organize a hybrid set up and get those 3 3500 parts on my car. (didnt have time)

[-Alero-]

heres a pic of the 3400 compared to the 3500
http://60degreev6.com/pics/family_tree/20043400.jpg
http://60degreev6.com/pics/family_tree/20043500.jpg

[BlackJack]

so why not just drop in a whole 3500/4t60 setup to start with?

[-Alero-]

Originally posted by BlackJack@Mar 28 2005, 03:44 AM
so why not just drop in a whole 3500/4t60 setup to start with?
Quoted post



i havent looked into it but i believe that the 3500 (LX9) doesnt have much of an aftermarket like the 3400, even though the 3400 doesnt have a big aftermarket anyway.

but the LX9 is just a bored out version of the LA1 (3400), with only some different externals.

so to tell you the turth i think a turbo from a LA1 could work with a LX9 but i dont recommend it. all it really takes is computer programing i bet

[BlackJack]

ok, I see your point. besides, 100cc's can be easily compensated for in HP by other mods.

Basically, I'm down to hunting for a 4t60 for sale cheap, and will even do a partial trade for a 4t45 with only 30k miles on it....know anyone with a 4t60 for sale? I dont think I ever found out what cars they came in. I think maybe GP's

[-Alero-]

i dunno either but you should find out, and go to junk yards, and go to Car-part.com and if all else fails the stealership

[sc/alero]

you want the 4t65e-hd it comes out of the supercharged gm 3800. i have one setting here on the floor waiting to go in. as discussed in another thread there is a lot that has to be done: mod the cradle becuase the housing or end cap in bigger, ecm reprogram, mounts. or like everyone else says buy the bulletproof 4t45e i personaly am going with the 4t65e-hd

[mike2002]

4t60 was used in older 3800, 3.4 and 3100 powered cars, and a few others.

you want the 4t65 like he said

id use the 4t65 over the 4t65hd unless your running serious power, the 4t65 had 3.29 gearing (or maybe its 3.33) and the 4t65hd has 2.93 gearing. they do make kits to either change that to 3.29/3.69 (i wouldn't get the 3.69 unless you had a huge turbo or somthing) though

they also makes kits to turn the 4t65 into a 4t65-hd and keep the better gearing

[germ]

just upgrade your stock tranny, no need to swap in a different style of tranny. you will end up with more trouble IMO if you swap to the 60 or the 65.

IIRC some parts of the 65 tranny's will work in the 4t45 (ie LSD)

i would recommend talking to tejohnson from gagt.com, he is having a built 4t45 done to handle the power.

the 3500 intakes would be the only thing i would swap over IF i really felt like it.

i dont feel the gain from the 3500 intakes are going to be that much of an improvement thought. and no, dont swap the whole motor. you will have to rewire the entire engine bay to accept the PCM and electronic controls that that engine has/uses. not really worth the effort IMO.

one other thing i would possibly consider, if you can drive a manual and you like manuals, consider the Getrag 282 tranny. with a few upgrades, its been know to handle a great deal of power (as long as you start out with a good tranny)

[sc/alero]

^^^ if you do this talk to springs he is in the process of putting a manual in his alero now. but his car is going to be making around 500hp with his built engine

[-Alero-]

why not look into the 2.0 supercharged engine and tranny from the SS cobalt.

[BlackJack]

hahaha, yeah, I can barely afford the mods as it is, much less the cost for equipment from a brand new model.

I think I'm going to go with germ's idea here:
Originally posted by germ@Mar 24 2005, 08:18 PM
first of all, if a person were to have the ability to use their own hands then they can EASILY hit 12's for way less than 10k
you can get a turbo kit and run 12 psi (track only, w/ race gas) on a stock engine and get it to hit 12's.Â;-) you will need to beef up the tranny in order to do it regularly.
a decent tranny "kit" would cost less than 3000 and a decent tranny would cost less than 4000 and thats PUSHING the limits of what it would cost.
me personally, i have done all the work on my car myself and saved a lot of money and learned a lot in the process.
for the engine mods and turbo setup i have spent MAYBE 1750 and a tranny to hold 12's cost around 1500 installed
but keep in mind ive done a lot of trial and error work and having a setup like this and the power it has, expect to have some downtime to work on the car and tune the car.Â;-) no off the shelf PCM is going to work, your going to have to spend the loot on a Powertuner from DHP
Quoted post

I have done my own porting work, race builds, etc. I know some of the intricacies are different, but the concepts are basically the same. As I once said, I have more time than money
But as for a manual conversion, I dont see it happening.
Next up is to find a turbo setup, so I'll have to PM germ and find out how he got his parts and stuff down to under 1800 for the engine.

Next question, in the local paper there's a GM 4L60 tranny for sale for $150, any idea what it is or if it would work?

[BlackJack]

nm, answered my own question, it's from vette's and trucks.

[SilverBullet256]

ok so i just picked up a turbo from my uncle and im gonna put it in this summer, and im picking up an intercooler from a wrecked eclipse here in town, so im guessing all i need to safely run 8-9 psi is a pcm tune for now?, correct me if im wrong, or germ, i thought you were going to sell your setup, well anyway, germ since you have done a custom setup what would you suggest to me?

[germ]

silverbullet, without a tune on your car, i would not run past 7 psi, i would do 5psi personally just to be safe.

and im not to sure about that eclipse intercooler. they are quite small and have very small inlet and outlet pipes. i would suggest at least a 2.25" in/out and using at least 2.25" charge piping (dont do 3", its a waste of money unless you plan on 20+ psi, but thats another ball game there).




if you want to know how i did my setup for under 1800, its quite simple. i took my time and found the best deals on what i wanted. and i didnt always want the best parts. for example, i chose to go with a DSM BOV. that didnt work out so well and cause a LOT of issues. i then just got a cheap $40 EBAY chrome BOV. works wonderfully. you will see that with certain things, you can actually get cheap stuff and it work great. like the BOV and the Wastegate. there are a few sellers on the net that make a knockoff Tial Sport wastegate and is engineered to Tial's specs and works exactly the same and as good. $100 less than the real thing.

you just have to search the net and look for the best deals.

and yes, i LOVED ebay. you can find a LOT of great deals on turbo stuff there.

[BlackJack]

so you didn't actually buy a turbo "kit", it was pretty much pieced together? or did you start with something that included the turbo headers/snail/downpipe, etc?

[germ]

each piece was bought seperately.

not one single item was purchased as a "kit"

[kwhauck]

IMO a kit, although more costly, is a good place to start if you don't want to deal with ordering seperate pieces and putting everything together......me personally, i don't have time to deal with that crap...... i have picked up a kit from www.turbochargedpower.com, this will be my base for my alero project and i will go from there with engine building, and a 65hd tranny swap.....

[germ]

wonder how long it will take you to get your "kit" from them

i know the grand am guys have been waiting for a long time and the one guy that the kit was based off of wont even endorse their product. and the only thing worthwhile on that kit is the headers IMO and even then, the dont show any signicant HP gains over log turbo headers.

but hey, spend the $3500 on that kit, its only money.


by the way, i pieced together my kit within 2 months, and another 2 weeks to fab up stuff to install it, and then another 6 days to install it the first time. if i were to start from scratch again, i could probably go from nothing, to a turbo'd car in less than 1 month.

[BlackJack]

alright, I'm going to start looking on ebay, and do this piece by piece then. I'm going to have the heads/intakes p&p, and drop in some better head studs while I'm in there. Now I need some more specifics, like what size snail I need to look for. I am no pro at turbo setups, but I know larger snail will give you more hp at the top of the band, and a smaller one in the lower end. What size/type/brand snail, and what diameter header and downpipe/intercooler pipe should I look for now given that my primary use is going to be 1/4 mile, or street racing? Keep in mind I really want an adjustable w/g.

This may be alot to ask, but if you wouldn't mind, can you email or PM me with some "don't pay more than" prices for the components? If I'm not that turbo literate, I really dont wanna get ripped off.

[SilverBullet256]

yeah im gonna do the same, i have tyhe turbo sofar, i need everything else for it i might just run it off the stock manifolds for now so i basically need to pick up an intercooler a good BOV and wastegate, any suggestions on brands or anything germ?

[BlackJack]

can a turbo be ran off a regular header?

[SilverBullet256]

yeah it can be done off the stock manifolds, not as free flwoing definately not good for really high performance but it will work
you just have to re-route the exhaust coming off the manifolds to the turbo :thumb:

[SilverBullet256]

o and i just realized that my turbo is a garret, i know garret is known to make good turbo's

[kwhauck]

Originally posted by germ@Mar 29 2005, 11:47 AM
wonder how long it will take you to get your "kit" from them

i know the grand am guys have been waiting for a long time and the one guy that the kit was based off of wont even endorse their product. and the only thing worthwhile on that kit is the headers IMO and even then, the dont show any signicant HP gains over log turbo headers.

but hey, spend the $3500 on that kit, its only money.


by the way, i pieced together my kit within 2 months, and another 2 weeks to fab up stuff to install it, and then another 6 days to install it the first time. if i were to start from scratch again, i could probably go from nothing, to a turbo'd car in less than 1 month.
Quoted post


well, lets see, i already have part of the kit, the rest is coming, when my middle man contacts them, probably mid-april.......

as far as Phantom505 from gagt.com, he will endorse the "kit" i have talked to him on PM several times, his big beef with them was how they as a company handled the tuning issues through DHP, he likes the "kit" and greatly reccomends it but he was upset dealing with all the tuning crap.......that is not a problem anymore though with new tuning software..........

i have some pictures of parts of my turbo kit if you are interested.......

[germ]

as for turbo size, it really depends on the kind of power you want to achieve, the PSI you want to run, the rest of your setup.

a t3/t4 hybrid would be "style" i would go with for all applications

as for size, you want something with a 57 trim wheel, at least a 50 a/r COLD, and at least a 60 a/r HOT. if you go with those #'s as the smallest size, it will give you INSTANT spool, but will be working really hard if you like to drive REALLY fast.

my turbo is a 57 trim, 50 a/r cold, 83 a/r hot. i feel that a 70 a/r hot would be a really good match as well. but with my setup, i am at 10psi before 3000 rpms if i got 100% full throttle.

the brand really doesnt matter so much. garrett, air research, turbonetics, etc.... i have a Master Power turbo. its a company from Brazil or some sh*t, lol. they all use the same specs for the housings so it doesnt matter.

make sure to use an oil restrictor valve so you dont push 40+ psi of oil pressure to the turbo, it really only needs a trickle of oil to the oil feed side.



now back to the HP turbo kit. i am sure you got some of the parts allready. there are a lot of people that have about 1/2 the kit sent to them already. they have been waiting for a while for the rest.

i dont think there is one person other than phantom that has a complete kit yet


the kit is nice, but over priced, and i feel that some of the items they say you dont need is crazy, i.e. bigger injectors.

anything over 7 psi is probably gonna max out those injectors into a static mode and then it cant supply sufficiant fuel for the air thats coming in. *unless they have recently gotten smart about that.

[germ]

almost forgot.....

for those that want/need to contact me, feel free to hit me up on MSN Msgr, germ_sws@hotmail.com or on AOL IM, germsws


i try to be on in the evenings





as for prices for stuff, this is just a short list of what I would spend....

turbo 300
wastegate 200
bov 50
turbo log headers 500 (with ALL flanges. by the way, i make these if your interested)
DHP Powertuner 399
fuel injectrors 225 (42.5#, you could possibly try the GTP's 36# for a LOT less)
silicone couplers 25 (buy it by the foot from ebay)
silicone reducers for the maf 25 each (hightempsilicone.com i think is the website)
silicone vac/boost hose
intercooler 200 (JRC's on ebay are VERY good intercoolers, and an Isuzu NPR Small IC is very good as well, thats what i have, but i dont knwo if it will fit in the alero, dont go cheap and get the saab and other $50 IC's, they just dont do a good job at cooling the charged air)


keep in mind, these are MAX prices. most of the stuff can be found for VERY cheap. and all prices are for NEW items.

[germ]

and about this adjustable wastegate.....


why?


if you want to adjust boost, get a boost controller.

most of these adjustable wastegates dont do anything but spike the boost higher than you want.

and 99% of the wastegates out there, have interchangeable springs to give you more or less boost, but so does the boost controller

and a cheap controller can be bought on ebay for like $4

[kwhauck]

Originally posted by germ@Mar 30 2005, 07:17 AM
now back to the HP turbo kit. i am sure you got some of the parts allready. there are a lot of people that have about 1/2 the kit sent to them already. they have been waiting for a while for the rest.

i dont think there is one person other than phantom that has a complete kit yet


the kit is nice, but over priced, and i feel that some of the items they say you dont need is crazy, i.e. bigger injectors.

anything over 7 psi is probably gonna max out those injectors into a static mode and then it cant supply sufficiant fuel for the air thats coming in. *unless they have recently gotten smart about that.
Quoted post


Well, i am going to be going way past 7psi, i am shooting for right up there with you in the 12-15psi range or more :beerchug: , we'll see how much of a loan i can get from my bank......anyways, there may be a lost list of people waiting, but i guarantee i am towards the top, i didn't buy the kit from HP, i bought it from a Grand Am guy, he has been waiting for awhile and decided he needed some of the money back, so i bought the kit from him, trust me, i didn't pay the $3500, plus he included in the deal some extra stuff such as injectors/gauges/boost controller/ and misc other small things.....

not trying to start an arguement here, i am just telling some people that aren't as car savvy that kit can be had, i'm lazy and i didn't want to piece a kit togehter, although relatively cheaper, i just wanted to start with the base kit

either way, thank you for the info you have provided, i'm sure your turbo information has helped many people that have been reading these posts already....

one of the mods from this section maybe want to cut out the crap from this thread and sticky it as a turbo info page.........Thanx, Kyle :thumb:

[BlackJack]

turbo-alero, I was thinking the same thing about an info page, alot of good input from various sources here. whether I like it or not, I"m learning. I just signed up as a member on a non-brand specific turbo owners club and germ has got me reading alot of tech articles off it. We need that here. I think we'd have a larger forced-induction group if we could show that it can be affordable. First thing I did was look at the price on a turbo kit and decided I could never afford it. At least now there's hope >8)

[germ]

if you got that kit for a cheaper price, thats great, because its honestly looks like a well built kit, i wont disagree there, and especially if you got some extras along with it.

:thumbsup:



i do like their headers, unfortunatly that wont work on a monte since the wbody has HUGE strut towers and brake boosters and master cyl. takes up a lot of room over there where they set the turbo at. a lot of modification would be needed on that setup for me. :cry:

so i had to make my own, lol


and yes, you can make a turbo setup affordable for pretty much any car that you are able to tune, and with todays stand alone setups and OBD hackers we have the ability.

honestly, you should spend the most on your tuning. that will keep you happy and not wrenching on the car. seriously.

and making sure you do it right the first time helps too, hahaha

[SilverBullet256]

ok germ, im gonna add you on msn and hit you up for hints and help later :thumb:

[bjensen83]

turbo-alero,. could you please post some of your turbo setup pictures?

[SilverBullet256]

um for one his car that the setup was going on was burnt, and two as he told me he didnt have anything in there yet so i dont think he has it setup in his car yet, but i may be mistaken

[RoninKouga]

i saw this thingie on ebay.

i know... ebay tuning parts are ... ;) but, what do you think about that turbo kit?

ebay turbo kit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7974968114&category=33742)

thanks for your quotes

[Sportalero]

Wow, 600 horses and can automatically convert any FWD vehicle to RWD?? All for just $550???


Aaaaaah, now i see. 50 bux for shipping. Knew there had to be a catch :glare:

[kwhauck]

Originally posted by bjensen83@May 15 2005, 05:29 PM
turbo-alero,. could you please post some of your turbo setup pictures?
Quoted post


well, all i can post right now is pics of all of my turbo piping and half of my turbo housing...........the rest you will have to wait on......but i am starting a website that will cover a complete buildup of my turbo alero so definately stay tuned.......

[RoninKouga]

i wrote a mail to the seller that he gives me the list of parts that will be delivered. and i asked him to send the installation guide they include. may be he answers :D