Tranny mods?

[Redog]

I know that we have a 4t45 tranny in our Aleros but has anybody put a 4t40 tranny or a regeared tranny in their cars? If so, how much?

[overdrive75]

Ok, the 4T40E and 4T45E are the same transmissions, with the following exceptions

V-6 4T45E wide Chain and 5 plate clutch set up for direct (3rd) 3.05 final Drive

I-4 2.4L skinny Chain and 5 plate direct clutch, overal final drive 3.43 final drive

I-4 2.2L Eco-Tech skinny Chain 4 plate direct clutch. 3.91 overrall final drive.

Also torque converters are different.

So swapping to a 4T40E would be bad with the v-6, you could rip the chain up, and depending also wrip up direct clutch.

Also any change in gear ratios, will force a recal of the PCM and since GM doesn't supply custom cals, that kinda hoses you that way.

The only differences

[misslindseysue]

Why would you want to do that anyway?

[Redog]

Just thinking that if I ever blow up the tranny from too much power or racing on the track taht I would get it regeared. If it's going to cost $1500, I'd put out like an extra $500 to save money in the long run.

Plus how fast you are is in the tranny. I like to take my car to the track

[misslindseysue]

Ok. Well, you'd need some heavy mods to blow your tranny, but it could happen. Why not just upgrade it before that happens? There are kits out there.

[springs fastest alero]

well no real mods yet but its a work in progress.
dont be too surprized if you see a few manual tranny V6's running arround soon

[jturkey69]

ok john...so what tranny??..get a rag?,,,and also you swapped to a ga/gt...did you have any issues with re-calibrating the speedo??

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by jturkey69@Dec 28 2003, 05:10 PM
ok john...so what tranny??..get a rag?,,,and also you swapped to a ga/gt...did you have any issues with re-calibrating the speedo??
my car came with the gagt tranny
it was special ordered for the dealers son that way but the car came before the paper work was ready.
I'm looking at the getreg/muncie 282

[jturkey69]

ok...i thought you swapped it in...so you arent sure if ill have issues when i put mine in then?...
as for the get/mun. 282...what kinda of avialable parts are there for those, and which bellhousing tdo you need to use?

[Alerosince99]

Hmmm...I thought it was the exact same tranny as ours other than the gearing was set different. Which, if that was the case, I would have thought you could of just swapped in a gt pcm at the same time you switched the tranny. That seems way too easy so Im sure there is alot more to it.

[jturkey69]

^^i have no idea...i have the ga/gt tranny in my garage, just waiting for a few more things to come in before i put it all together...i expect the car to be done around march for sure. so until then...i guess its just speculation

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by jturkey69@Dec 28 2003, 07:26 PM
ok...i thought you swapped it in...so you arent sure if ill have issues when i put mine in then?...
as for the get/mun. 282...what kinda of avialable parts are there for those, and which bellhousing tdo you need to use?
as far as I know its just a different reluctor wheel in the tranny
but the cal is the same so you should be able to put in the tranny and everything will be fine.
they wouldnt of done it to my car if it required extra work than just bolting in the different tranny

[overdrive75]

Ok, it's not a different reluctor wheel. It is the same the difference is that the Alero v-6 get's a 3.05 final drive the GA/GT get's a 3.29 final drive. So yes that means you are going to need the GA/GT calibration. Other wise shift pattern is going to be all fubar, and shift pressures are going to not behave the way they are calibrated to.

So if you are going to do this mod in the hopes of increased durability, well, you aren't gaining anything there. The gain will be in the launch due to the higher final drive, that is if you can keep traction.

[Alerosince99]

So does that mean that one could just swap pcms from the gt to the alero and have the gt gearing? Or just swap in a properly calibrated dhp pcm for the same year gt?

[overdrive75]

I have not clue on the after markets? are those complete PCM's or just add ons to the stock PCM's Also I don't know if you could just swap the PCM in for the GT. The SE v-6 and a gt are different trans cals, but I am not sure on the engine calibration. I don't see why there would be a difference. I mean same engine, same air box exaust and all, so it should be a direct PCM swap. You will probably have to do a key learn though if you swap factory PCM's.

[Aleromi]

Well in all that one of the best things u can do is GET A TRANNY cooler...

Cooler temp on the trans means longer life...

I got one and when its warmer out i will install it. :D

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by overdrive75@Dec 29 2003, 08:23 PM
Ok, it's not a different reluctor wheel. It is the same the difference is that the Alero v-6 get's a 3.05 final drive the GA/GT get's a 3.29 final drive. So yes that means you are going to need the GA/GT calibration. Other wise shift pattern is going to be all fubar, and shift pressures are going to not behave the way they are calibrated to.

So if you are going to do this mod in the hopes of increased durability, well, you aren't gaining anything there. The gain will be in the launch due to the higher final drive, that is if you can keep traction.
actually you can go withing a certan percent without messing up the computer
but too far out of spec and it won't adjust
my friends played with this.
they tried gears from a 2.4L auto but it was too far out of spec.
3.07 and the 3.29 would interchange without causeing a problem

[overdrive75]

It is not as simple as you guys think.

The transmission does not adapt shift lines. Only pressures, and even then it's gonna be all messed up because the transmission will never calculate that it is in the correct gear. Yes it does calculate ratio to verify it has made the gear change, and since it has a different final drive, it will never calculate the correct ratio, as the final drive is taken into account in the calibration.

Sorry to break it to you but you are wrong.

[Alerosince99]

Only pressures, and even then it's gonna be all messed up because the transmission will never calculate that it is in the correct gear.

What does that calculation? The PCM?

If the calculation was coming from the pcm...and the transmisions between were the exact same except for the final drive, why couldnt you just swap the chip from the gt at the same time?

[overdrive75]

Originally posted by Alerosince99@Jan 7 2004, 08:48 AM
Only pressures, and even then it's gonna be all messed up because the transmission will never calculate that it is in the correct gear.

What does that calculation? The PCM?

If the calculation was coming from the pcm...and the transmisions between were the exact same except for the final drive, why couldnt you just swap the chip from the gt at the same time?
That's correct a PCM from a GT must go with a GT trans. The PCM for the base v-6 goes with that one.

And yes the PCM calculates the gear ratio.

[Alerosince99]

Ahh I get you now.

The pcm controls final gear ratio but there is something hardcoded in the trans itself that needs to match up.

Is there anyway to change that hardcoding in the trans?

[overdrive75]

Originally posted by Alerosince99@Jan 7 2004, 04:07 PM
Ahh I get you now.

The pcm controls final gear ratio but there is something hardcoded in the trans itself that needs to match up.

Is there anyway to change that hardcoding in the trans?
Ok all 4T40E's and 4T45E's have the same first, second, third and forth gear ratios. The final drives can change and the Torque Converter depending on application.

The 3400 alero has a 3.05 final drive. The 3400 GAGT has a 3.29 final drive.

Those final drives are calibrated.

Ok, so the transmission needs to match the calibration in the PCM.

That said.

The PCM must follow the transmission.

As far as changing transmission calibration, that requires a calibration flash.

If you are looking to get a 3.29 final drive your best bet is to get the complete GAGT transmission, and the PCM for the GAGT.

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by overdrive75@Jan 7 2004, 05:16 AM
I calibrate this transmission for a living. It is not as simple as you guys think.

The transmission does not adapt shift lines. Only pressures, and even then it's gonna be all messed up because the transmission will never calculate that it is in the correct gear. Yes it does calculate ratio to verify it has made the gear change, and since it has a different final drive, it will never calculate the correct ratio, as the final drive is taken into account in the calibration.

Sorry to break it to you but you are wrong.
Well can't argue with facts
fact is nothing shows up in my car's vin proving it is a 3.29 fdr
but the dealer had proof of it and my car shifts the same as gagt's and sooner than aleros.
I also ran it through a program based on tire size max gear speed and stuff like that, that showed it as a 3.29 as well
from what we have found nothing was done to the computer yet my speedo and everything works correctly
I was told by a friend who talked to the guy that headed up the SC/T project that the computer is able to adjust for a very small ratio change and still be in spec.
like 15-17%% or less.
3.29 is only a 6% change from the 3.07 (factory alero gears)
My car works just fine and has 3.29 gears.
and it doesnt have a gagt cvomputer or the speed limiter would be 128

If I'm wrong why does my car work without a dimes trouble?
now changing to like 3.60 fubars everything
one of my friends tried that.

[overdrive75]

Originally posted by springs fastest alero+Jan 7 2004, 09:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (springs fastest alero @ Jan 7 2004, 09:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-overdrive75@Jan 7 2004, 05:16 AM
I calibrate this transmission for a living.Â;-) It is not as simple as you guys think.

The transmission does not adapt shift lines. Only pressures, and even then it's gonna be all messed up because the transmission will never calculate that it is in the correct gear.Â;-) Yes it does calculate ratio to verify it has made the gear change, and since it has a different final drive, it will never calculate the correct ratio, as the final drive is taken into account in the calibration.

Sorry to break it to you but you are wrong.
Well can't argue with facts
fact is nothing shows up in my car's vin proving it is a 3.29 fdr
but the dealer had proof of it and my car shifts the same as gagt's and sooner than aleros.
I also ran it through a program based on tire size max gear speed and stuff like that, that showed it as a 3.29 as well
nothing was done to the computer yet my speedo and everything works correctly
I was told by a friend who talked to the guy that headed up the SC/T project that the computer is able to adjust for a very small ratio change and still be in spec.
like 15-17%% or less.
3.29 is only a 6% change from the 3.07 (factory alero gears)
My car works just fine and has 3.29 gears.
and it doesnt have a gagt cvomputer or the speed limiter would be 128

If I'm wrong why does my car work without a dimes trouble?
now changing to like 3.60 fubars everything
one of my friends tried that. [/b][/quote]
I am not here to argue your facts. I don't know who your contact is, but that is not a correct statement. I have also never heard of the 3.07 final drive. It is not one the possible ones, so that fact is wrong.

As far as the 3.05 vs 3.29 arguement. Hey if you are running that without any problems, there is something that is different, and it will be the PCM.

As far as telling people to just swap their transmissions, will you put it in writing you will replace there trans when it fails, due to incorrect final drive for the given calibration.

[Naich]

Guys, I have been contacted by a GM worker who knows the ins and outs of the transmissions for our cars, and he wanted me to post this on here to clear up any confusion, and so someone doesn't go screw up their trans. for those people that are interested in haveing the 3.29 final drive in there alero's then need to have a PCM that is set up for the GAGT. If you do not have the correct calibration to run the 3.29 FD transmission, you are going to fail your transmission. The calibrations between the 3.05 FD and 3.29 FD are different in that shift pattern is not going to function as it should. Shift feel will be drastically impacted. With the impact on shift feel, there will be more clutch slip and eventually transmission failure. With the impact on shift feel, there will be more clutch slip and eventually transmission failure

[springs fastest alero]

you are the first to say its a 3.05
and how does my car work and have the alero speed limiter with a 3.29 fdr?
if it was a gagt computer my car would have a 128 speed limiter

[overdrive75]

Originally posted by springs fastest alero@Jan 7 2004, 11:18 PM
you are the first to say its a 3.05
and how does my car work and have the alero speed limiter with a 3.29 fdr?
if it was a gagt computer my car would have a 128 speed limiter
Ok, you need to pick up the Hyda-matic 4T40E technicians guide. That lists all the relevant information for 4T40 / 45 E transmission. It also lists the available final drive ratios. One of which is the 3.05 and you will find that the 3.07 is not listed as one.

I don't know how your car is cobled together, but I am serously doubting you have the 3.29 FD transmission. I mean who is this supposed paperwork from the dealer?

[3.4Alero]

Springs, is it possible that the dealer had the stock alero PCM recalibrated to the 3.29FD? That would explain both the speed limiter, and why your car runs OK.

[Redog]

Originally posted by Big Poppa Naich@Jan 7 2004, 10:06 PM
Guys, I have been contacted by a GM worker who knows the ins and outs of the transmissions for our cars, and he wanted me to post this on here to clear up any confusion, and so someone doesn't go screw up their trans. for those people that are interested in haveing the 3.29 final drive in there alero's then need to have a PCM that is set up for the GAGT. If you do not have the correct calibration to run the 3.29 FD transmission, you are going to fail your transmission. The calibrations between the 3.05 FD and 3.29 FD are different in that shift pattern is not going to function as it should. Shift feel will be drastically impacted. With the impact on shift feel, there will be more clutch slip and eventually transmission failure. With the impact on shift feel, there will be more clutch slip and eventually transmission failure
What about the PCM on sale at PFYC.com for the GAGT?

Is it as easy as putting this in or does more have to be done?

Grand Am GT PCM (http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PFYC&Product_Code=GA3010&Product_Count=18&Category_Code=GAUNDER)

[Naich]

from my understanding, if you get the gagt transmission, you need a grand am gt PCM, be it tuned or not. You can't just get the PCM, you need both the 3.29 GAGT trans AND the PCM.

[jturkey69]

ok...here is a question then.....overdrive75..
for the ase pcm...most ppl were told to order the gagt pcm tune.....so if im ASSUMING right...when ppl did get the asse..then they should have also got the gagt trans?? i mean it does make sense that some aleros with the ase tune, arent all that faster, so if they ordered the gagt tune, then they could be havin more iisues then ??...does this make sense to you??

i just remember that when ppl said there was no ase for the alero, they wer told to ask for the gagt tune

if that is true...then the ase would actually be a good route to go with the gagt tranny installed.

please help us out here...i dont want to install the gagt trans i have and mess everything up in the process

[Redog]

Originally posted by Big Poppa Naich@Jan 9 2004, 12:37 AM
from my understanding, if you get the gagt transmission, you need a grand am gt PCM, be it tuned or not. You can't just get the PCM, you need both the 3.29 GAGT trans AND the PCM.
Yeah that's what I thought :(

[overdrive75]

Originally posted by jturkey69@Jan 9 2004, 09:28 AM
ok...here is a question then.....overdrive75..
for the ase pcm...most ppl were told to order the gagt pcm tune.....so if im ASSUMING right...when ppl did get the asse..then they should have also got the gagt trans?? i mean it does make sense that some aleros with the ase tune, arent all that faster, so if they ordered the gagt tune, then they could be havin more iisues then ??...does this make sense to you??

i just remember that when ppl said there was no ase for the alero, they wer told to ask for the gagt tune

if that is true...then the ase would actually be a good route to go with the gagt tranny installed.

please help us out here...i dont want to install the gagt trans i have and mess everything up in the process
That's correct, if you install your GAGT tranmission into your alero, you are going to need to have a PCM, weather it be a factory one or a tuned one that is set up for the GAGT.

To your other questions about people having more issues, then yes, this could be true. I am not sure what ASE's tune looks like or does to the stock one, but in this case, the underlying issues my not stand out, weather it be a Diagnostics code my not set, as with the factory PCM you would.

I am not familiar enough with what ASE does to trouble codes or doesn't do. If you are putting an ASE GAGT tune in an alero without the GAGT (3.29) trans, there are going to be some deffinate problems. Once again I do not know what ASE does in reguards to DTC's and stuff, so my best answer is those people that have done the ASE swap with a GAGT tune do have some issues and they may not stand out to them as problems.

[Naich]

but if there was a tune for the GASE, you would be ok, right?

[overdrive75]

Originally posted by Big Poppa Naich@Jan 9 2004, 02:34 PM
but if there was a tune for the GASE, you would be ok, right?
That's right a GASE tune will work fine in an alero with the alero trans.

[jturkey69]

thanx for the help...im gonna research some stuf about ASE and DHP. computer tunes before i start to mess with installing the gagt trans.

[1WhiteOSV]

WHAT I WANNA KNOW IS WHY THE HELL OUR CARS TOP AT 107 AND THE GRAND AM GT TOPS AT LEAST AT 121. I HAVE AN 02 ALERO AND I AM AT 107 AND MY FRIEND JUST BOUGHT AN 02 GAGT AND HE GOT HIS TO 121....I AM PISSED! :evil:

[overdrive75]

Originally posted by 1WhiteOSV@Feb 27 2004, 01:25 PM
WHAT I WANNA KNOW IS WHY THE HELL OUR CARS TOP AT 107 AND THE GRAND AM GT TOPS AT LEAST AT 121. I HAVE AN 02 ALERO AND I AM AT 107 AND MY FRIEND JUST BOUGHT AN 02 GAGT AND HE GOT HIS TO 121....I AM PISSED! :evil:
Grand AM GT has tires that are rated to a higher speed than those that come on the alero and GM SE.

That's it pain and simple

It all boils down to tires.

[misslindseysue]

^ Because that's where fuel cut-off is. Get new tires and a chip, and go as fast as you want.

[3.4Alero]

Uhhh... stock Eagle RS-A's are v rated.... 149mph. Not so simple, now.

[overdrive75]

Originally posted by 3.4Alero@Feb 29 2004, 07:16 PM
Uhhh... stock Eagle RS-A's are v rated.... 149mph. Not so simple, now.
All V-6 alero's with have the same calibration. So hence you are forced to default to the lower speed rated tires. Those being what comes on the 15" rims. So yes it was actually that simple.

[springs fastest alero]

Originally posted by 3.4Alero@Feb 29 2004, 04:16 PM
Uhhh... stock Eagle RS-A's are v rated.... 149mph. Not so simple, now.
pretty sure its lower than that
the rs/a's have different ratings
the gagt also has them but they are a higher rating than on the alero and the gase

[Final-Reality]

Every posting in here go put a manny tranny in your alero so you can all stop arguing, k? :popcorn: