3.4 Cai

[-Alero-]

im looking for CAI's on ebay and i found this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...7926904328&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38634&item=7926904328&rd=1)

what do you think? im looking for a trusty CAI that will give that 8-12 hp etc etc etc. but i'd like advice on whether to shop on ebay or end up spending 180$ on dr. speed's

[Pimpalero03]

just be safe and get dr. speed

[FormulaNERD]

well, you probably dont want to hear it, but there is NO cai that will actually give you 8-12 hp.

but yea, Dr. Speed is the way to go.

the one in the link you posted doesn't even replace the tubing that attaches to the TB.

[-Alero-]

really!?...........hmmph so i have to spend 180 dollars <_<

[FormulaNERD]

there are other options, but seriously, i switched from CAI to WAI... and i dont notice any difference. and i dont have to worry about water/snow in my intake this winter. not that it snows all that much here anyway.

[Redog]

Well that one isn't going to help you too much anyway.

It leaves the plastic accordin piece on the back part right before the TB, that will rob you of some power.

Start off with WAI first, later go to a CAI

[-Alero-]

hmmmm which WAI do you think i should get?

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by Redog@Oct 8 2004, 02:06 AM
Well that one isn't going to help you too much anyway.

It leaves the plastic accordin piece on the back part right before the TB, that will rob you of some power.

Start off with WAI first, later go to a CAI
haha, i just said that ken... you're so silly.

[-Alero-]

yeah now that i think about it, a WAI would be pretty nice, i think i'd get a bad ass air filter. and i'd say it would be alot easier to work on induction stuff like a new TB or a TB spacer or new UIM, with that short WAI sittin there. kinda like aplug in pull out :P

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by Alero-@Oct 8 2004, 02:13 AM
hmmmm which WAI do you think i should get?
talk to niach, he has a decent cheap alternative.

[-Alero-]

im assuming its reliable? with good gains?

[Redog]

Originally posted by FormulaNERD+Oct 7 2004, 10:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FormulaNERD @ Oct 7 2004, 10:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Redog@Oct 8 2004, 02:06 AM
Well that one isn't going to help you too much anyway.

It leaves the plastic accordin piece on the back part right before the TB, that will rob you of some power.

Start off with WAI first, later go to a CAI
haha, i just said that ken... you're so silly. [/b][/quote]
O sorry ;)

DO NOT GET A TB SPACER, bad news

A buddy of mine put one one his mid 90's Caramo with the 3.4, and it starting misfireing

[FormulaNERD]

well with WAI you have TB -> coupler with 2 grommets -> MAF -> Coupler -> short angled tube -> coupler -> filter

so yea, 3 pieces of rubber, one piece of metal tubing, and a filter.... i'm not sure if you can say that it's "reliable" or "unreliable" or how you'd even classify that.. you know what i mean?

but yea, you'll get the most "gain" you can out of a WAI (or even CAI in my own personal opinion)

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by Redog@Oct 8 2004, 02:28 AM
O sorry ;)

*cough whore *cough

[Redog]

A nice filter to get is this one (http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=esearch.asp&N=100&Ntk=PartSearch&Ntt=KNN+ru2430) :thumbsup:

EDIT Gotta give me time to get up the right page :D

[FormulaNERD]

filter looks good, but i'm still afraid of k&n after the first encounter i had destroyed my MAF with too much oil...

and the description here scares me more! lol....

"They use a surgical cotton fabric soaked in oil as their tack barrier."

lol, SOAKED IN OIL is right.

i really do want a k&n that is oiled, but not too oiled. you know what i mean?

[-Alero-]

the carbueretor?

[Redog]

Originally posted by FormulaNERD+Oct 7 2004, 10:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FormulaNERD @ Oct 7 2004, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Redog@Oct 8 2004, 02:28 AM
O sorry ;)

*cough whore *cough [/b][/quote]
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/images/smilies/blah.gif

[Naich]

I do ave a WAI option that I will be selling in the near future. I need to order a little bit of stock first before I start selling them though.

[-Alero-]

guess i'll save my money for that. or maybe buy that b&m shiftplus thing or maybe the FFP crank pulley.im just looking for a few things to bump the car up to 200HP, nothin fancy

[Naich]

Well, to get to 200, you're probably going to need headers :)

[FormulaNERD]

good luck dude, horsepower doesnt come as easy as you think.

you may hit 200 at the crank, with all that stuff and exhaust, but i dunno.

[Redog]

And figure 200 at the crank is about 150 at the wheels.

I guessamate I'm putting 206 at the crank. I could be wrong, I did a really rough figure via 1/4 time and weight

[FormulaNERD]

i seriously dont think there's 25% loss through the drivetrain... though i could be wrong, someone else care to chime in?

[Naich]

no, that is more or less right. It is disapointing how poorly our cars respond to performance modifications. 200 crank = 150-170 at the wheels depending on the car.

[FormulaNERD]

i could see 170-180 at the wheels with 200 at the crank, thats with engine/tranny mount upgrades.

[Naich]

The generally accepted rule of tumb is 20-25% power loss through the drivetrain for most vehicles. Of course it varies from vehicle to vehicle....

[-Alero-]

uhh im possitive i wont need headers to get to 200 hp. CAI 10 hp.... borla cat back...17 hp, ffp crank pulley 10 hp.......im guessing that should be around 30 hp, but i'll assume im worng

[FormulaNERD]

yea... advertised expected gains and stuff like that are all speculations....

you'd be lucky to get about 12 hp i'd say.

[Naich]

HP doesn't work that way. It's not as simple as saying "this adds 12 HP, this adds 8 HP...."

Not to upset you or anything, but this is the truth. I would also say that with the pulley, CAI, and exhaust, you might gain 15 HP. Each car responds differently. I just don't want you to have high expectations and then not achieve them. To break the 200 HP mark with our engines, you really need to consider headers. They make the biggest difference.

[Mac]

Do generic filters on WAIs destroy your MAF like the oil on the K and N filters? Have alot of people had there MAFs destroyed????

[FormulaNERD]

good question, that's why i'm afraid to change mine.

i had a k&n kill my maf, at the time i didnt know what was wrong, then i switched to CAI, and well after that was "broken in" i swapped my maf.

i'm still looking for a filter that isnt oiled (all metal) or one that isnt oiled that you oil yourself.

[-Alero-]

well im pretty sure i keep my car in very good condition, i dont drive it too hard, i clean the engine as often as i clean the car, but anyways that borla cat back says it give a 10% increase in hp, and 10% of 170 is 17. and if i cant trust a WAI,crank pulley, and exhasut, then i might as well get a DHP PCM, that will unleash the WAI, and exhasust potential a bit. so yeah $720+ just for some pieces of metal......maybe another day :P

[FormulaNERD]

if you're refferring to headers, they're the one upgrade that will actually make a difference, well aside from forced induction.

[-Alero-]

umm ok, then why would companies say what gains thier products can provide and thier products dont even provide that.......if thats true then why would people buy them

[BDizzle]

okay...im new to the engine work realm. Could someone explain what headers are and what the do exactly? And how much, roughly, do they run for?

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by Alero-@Oct 12 2004, 04:59 PM
umm ok, then why would companies say what gains thier products can provide and thier products dont even provide that.......if thats true then why would people buy them
in certain situations you will get advertised gains, but what we're saying is that everything works together, and it doesnt just add up with each bolt on.

they may put headers on a car that is supercharged with all kinds of other mods, and get another 12hp out of it. but that doesnt mean you're gonna get 12 hp... understand?

[-Alero-]

yeah, but this engine seems more and more like an engine thats meant to be stock. cause it seems like you could spend over $1000 (not including headers) and only get 5 hp.............lol it just seems to me that things you can buy for the 3400 engine will provide .3 hp or .6 hp. i mean its like, whats the point.......lol i hate to say it but this just doesnt seem worth it. so how bout this- AN ENGINE SWAP. anybody know info about engines that could fit the alero, i know that there are northstars, shortstars, etc. i just dont know anything about thier price or performance. but anyways do you guys think it would be better to switch to like a 2.4 or a 2.2? i mean they make alot more things for the engine, and they're alot cheaper. just give me your input, i'd appreciate it

[Crazytaxi37]

Facts off my dyno sheets......

Apoc CAI and slp exhaust produces 152 whp. (Sureflow dyno)

167.2 whp on a dyno jet

[-Alero-]

so thats..............2 hp?

[Crazytaxi37]

A stock 3400 alero is 170 hp at the crank.

A stock 3400 alero is 136 whp - 140 whp

[-Alero-]

ok..........uhh i dont wanna hear about the 3400 i wanna hear about the other engines, like the shortstar. the 3400 isnt worth putting money into, IMO.

[Crazytaxi37]

You will need to post in the proper forum for that then. This is for 3400 purformance only. Thanks.

[-Alero-]

.................................................. ...................... <_<

[Crazytaxi37]

Sorry man, you can always take this to the general performance forum.

[FormulaNERD]

Originally posted by Crazytaxi37@Oct 13 2004, 02:26 AM
You will need to post in the proper forum for that then. This is for 3400 purformance only. Thanks.
damn.... craxy was like BAM sucka!

[GainesvilleAlero]

what is the best "headers" buy for your money?
(3400 OFCOURSE LOL)

[Crazytaxi37]

Both S&S and TOG have been shown to have the same numbers virtually. TOG's I think are a better product. I use them. :smokin:

[FormulaNERD]

well this is a CAI thread, and you're actively posting in the tog header thread, and it's been said there that they are comparable, but not real documentation.

i'd go with what you can afford. the s&s is almost half if you have an exhaust hook you up with a custom pipe made in place of the flex that they sell for 350 as well.

[GainesvilleAlero]

:unsure:

[BDizzle]

hey can someone explain headers to me please?

[FormulaNERD]

(my quick explanation)
headers replace your exhaust manifold to more efficiently move exhaust gases from the engine to your res/cat/muffler

(results from an easy google search, i reccomend everyone does that before asking questions)

Headers are one of the easiest bolt-on accessories you can use to improve an engine's performance. The goal of headers is to make it easier for the engine to push exhaust gases out of the cylinders

The idea behind an exhaust header is to eliminate the manifold's back pressure. Instead of a common manifold that all of the cylinders share, each cylinder gets its own exhaust pipe. These pipes come together in a larger pipe called the collector. The individual pipes are cut and bent so that each one is the same length as the others. By making them the same length, it guarantees that each cylinder's exhaust gases arrive in the collector spaced out equally so there is no back pressure generated by the cylinders sharing the collector.

[-Alero-]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeyah anyways, i guess i'll just buy an APOC CAI. i noticed it has a k&n filter. didnt some people have problems with some sort of substance that f'd up thier MAF? and i also noticed its on back order, anyone know when they'll come back in stock. and one more thing, do you think the APOC CAI is better than the DS CAI?

thanks,
-kyle

[FormulaNERD]

people had problems with the k&n drop in filter for the stock airbox, or at least that's where i had problems. i'm still afraid of getting another k&n after getting a new maf.