Swapping 99 Alero 3400 with 99 LSS 3800 s/c

[aleros_eat_rice]

I've decided what I'm going to do for my Alero is swap the motor with the stock supercharged 3800 series II from the 99 Olds LSS. I went to rockauto.com, and I can get a reman 3800 engine and charger for around $3k +shipping. I figure that this way, the engine is already built to handle a supercharger, and the engine itself won't need much of any special tuning.
I know I would need a few other things, like flywheel, exhaust, fuel pump, injectors and pcm programming.
What else would I need to accomplish this? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[sleepyalero]

Why not just do the L67 Out of the grand prix. Thats what some do. But some say the swap is worth it some will tell you dont even waste your time. There is only one guy here thats somewhat active on this site that has an L67 swapped alero. He will probably pop in when he sees the thread.

[aleros_eat_rice]

Thought about that too.
Another thing I was figuring was, Alero and LSS are both Olds, so the swap might work easier. Although the LSS isn't an N platform, is it?

[sleepyalero]

Dont think so... but neither are the grand prixs... they are W body.

Just cause they are both olds doesnt mean it can make the swap easier.

The l67 with the 4t65e trans will pretty much bolt right up. But you might need some custom trans mounts..

[Shiwnath]

Honestly an L67 swap isn't worth it. You'd need to do a 4T65HD or similar swap as the 4T45E isn't rated for that amount of power. If you have the funds, you can boost the 3400 for less and make much more power. To get an L67 working you need the harness, aftermarket gauges and much more. Anything and everything related to the L67 swap in an N-Body is custom. The 3400 has a lot of aftermarket support just like the L67.

[aleros_eat_rice]

What places offer 3400 boost products? Not really looking for one that takes out the ac compressor, either.
Most of the websites I've found that offer 3400 boost products either don't work or the charger is discontinued.

[sleepyalero]

Milzymotorsports.com

[Shiwnath]

^ This plus you may want to send an email to Ben over at www.wot-tech.com. He doesn't make off the shelf turbo kits, but he his shop has also fabricated headers for our motors as well as other crazy projects. He may be able to help you out, if not point you in the right direction.

[aleros_eat_rice]

Checked out milzy motorsports. Found a sweet bolt-on turbo kit for $4,749.

I think I'll start off slow and build up to it. You know, start with a ported upper intake, then get ported exhaust mans, cold air, etc. Then after saving up, I'll get the turbo kit.
Thanks for the info, everyone.

[guiguilandry]

what do you want to know ?? want it auto or manual ?? it's a PITA to do...

[aleros_eat_rice]

I would like to stay auto. Would prefer a supercharger, so I don't need to worry about turbo lag. Unless I got a Caterpillar 3406 turbo lol.

...would that actually work? The main problem I can think of is running oil lines to it. All of the other stuff, I would likely have done already.
Edit:
Just tallied up cost for reman 3800, supercharger unit, and reman 4T65HD. Total cost: $4,540.47 +shipping.
Also, caterpillar 3406 turbo is $459.95 + free shipping.
Possibilities.

[[ion] C2]

turbo lag is not an issue lol, full boost @ 2500rpm for me

go turbooo

[guiguilandry]

if you want to stay auto... just get a car with a running 3800sc and good auto tranny...
you will need a lot of things from the donor car...
I can tell you that it will greatly ease and lower the cost of the swap if you have the complete donor car...

[aleros_eat_rice]

I could get the reman motor, trans and super online, then strip the mounts from a junkyard car. That way, the motor and trans will have fresh guts in them.

[sleepyalero]

I prefer turbo over s/c.

If you know what you are doing... and choose the right turbo for the build lag is not an issue.

[guiguilandry]

yeah and what about all the accesories of the engine,the p/s hoses, the coolant hoses, the radiator, all the wiring harness, the fuel pump, the shifter if your donor car have a preformance shift button...

and I forgot probably about a million things..

you can't bolt the mounts of the g-body subframe to the n-body frame...
you'll have to build completely from scratch the motor mounts

none of your alero gauges will work with this engine... maybe swap the cluster or get all new gauges...

and you'll have to stiffen/rebuild the front rad support of the car, I tore mine like butter...

if you do want to keep the 4t65hd, the axles dont bolt into the alero hub bearing

etc... the list goes on and on...
lots and lots of custom things to build the 3800 isn't a 60*v6 it's a 90*v6...

[guiguilandry]

there is a reason why this swap is not popular in n-body... it cost a shit load of money

[Nas Escobar]

Thought about that too.
Another thing I was figuring was, Alero and LSS are both Olds, so the swap might work easier. Although the LSS isn't an N platform, is it?

The fact that they're both Oldsmobiles has nothing to do with how easy or hard you can swap out parts. Oldsmobile is part of GM, and if you know anything about modern GM cars is that they share loads and loads of parts, so the 3800 is a Buick engine and your current 3400 is a Chevy 60 degree V6 engine. Most V6's of the 90's and early 2000's other than the 3800 were based on a Chevy design, with the exception of the 3.5 Aurora, which is based on the Northstar V8.

With that being said, the LSS and Alero have nothing in common other than being GM vehicles. The LSS is on the "H" body while the Alero is on the "N". The LSS is full size whereas the Alero is a compact car, so getting stuff like the transaxles, motor mounts, etc will have to be custom. As guiguilandry will tell you, this isn't a project that can be done in a year. This is going to take loads of time, and you're going to have to fabricate or have things fabricated for you in order to get it to work, not to mention PCM reflashing, tuning, and other small bits people forget about when engine swapping.

If you're dead set on forced induction, you're better off finding an LD9 Alero and turbocharging it or finding an L61 Alero and supercharging that. It still would have custom parts, but the LD9 is basically the Quad 4 and the L61 is basically the Cobalt SS engine. There used to be a supercharging kit that would give you the M62 for the Cavalier and basically make the engine more or less the same as the Cobalt SS one. The thing is that it was discontinued and finding everything will be hard, it would be easier to find a Cobalt SS donor and taking all the supercharged components out of it.

Anyways, the N body has more in common with the J body (Cavalier and Sunfire) than any other platform. It would be loads easier to do a 4 banger forced induction build on this car than a V6, unless you have the money and patience, then I would suggest simply sending the car off to Milzy Motorsports and having them rebuild your engine; which I assume has been tried and tested by now to be reliable and build upon it. You could probably turbocharge the 3400 a lot easier.

My advice would be to check out 60degreev6.com, you can see some neat builds over there and you can also learn what the 3400 is capable of. Once you fix the lim issue on the engine you're pretty much golden.

[aleros_eat_rice]

Then I guess I'll do that.
Still considering the Caterpillar turbo. I would likely need a flange fabricated for the exhaust side, then plumbing, MAF, intercooler and porting. The flange would probably be the only from scratch fab I would need.
Think that might work?

[[ion] C2]

anything "works" if you have enough time and money

[03glgold]

To nas why would you not turbo a l61...that is how gm pushed around 900hp on the factory block

[[ion] C2]

To nas why would you not turbo a l61...
where'd he say that?

[sleepyalero]

He said he would supercharge a l61

[aleros_eat_rice]

Seems like swapping for the LD9 is the best bet to go s/c. The superchargers are readily available, and since the Alero used it as well, shouldn't be too difficult to do. The problem being, I need to get an LD9. I can get all of the other stuff (exhaust, belt drive accessories, etc) as I'm building up to get the motor.

[03glgold]

I would go l61 before ld9...the ecotec is a motor known to be very reliable with a very strong aftermarket...find a wrecked cobalt ss and steal the supercharger setup off of it

[aleros_eat_rice]

Might just do that. Or if the engine as a whole isn't too bad, I can take the engine and charger together.

[03glgold]

I know you will have to get the throttle body to work with the alero...maybe power steering as well...cant remember if they had the electric pump or not

[aleros_eat_rice]

Worst case, I can get the engine online. A reman 2.2 for the Alero on rockauto is like $2800 or so.
Though I would probably pull one from a junkyard car first.

[guiguilandry]

why absolutely a reman engine ?? the car is still 15 years old and a good mileage engine would let you more money for the s/c kit...

and you can't swap a cobalt ss engine in there, the power steering pump will not work, the cylinder head, camshaft and valve cover doesn'work with a normal ecotec p/s pump because they comes from a electric p/s car ... plus like it was said before the throttle body is electric and there is no way to even get the cobalt ss pcm to communicate with your cluster or your bcm...

you better get a ''normal'' ecotec 2,2l and swap it, then just the kit for the supercharger from a cobalt.. if you got any question, ask me, I have a 96 sunfire swapped ecotec with a cobalt supercharger...

but all in all you'll need also a different subframe and motor mounts and complete car harness with the matching bcm if you do want to swap it... and even if you do this the l61 swap, it's wayyyy easier to do than the 3800 swap...

I suggest that you sell this one and find a clean 5 speed ecotec one... it'll save you hundreds of dollars and hours to make it work properly...

you can also get a turbo kit from a cobalt ss 2010+ and slap it on a ''normal'' ecotec, that's what we're doing on my cousin's car ( 2002 cavalier swapped ecotec + cobalt ss 2011 turbo)

trust me on that one.... I know my shit lol...

or you can supercharge or turbo the 3400 if you can find a good quality used kit, they are pretty rare, but some pops out sometimes...

[aleros_eat_rice]

At this point, I'm saying worst case. The worst way costs the most, but if it is reman, the engine internals are all fresh.

What kind of reliability does the LD9 have?

[Redog]

From what I've heard the LD9 is a pretty decent engine. It's also an Oldsmobile based enigne which is important to us older Oldsmobile guys. For a 4 banger you are not going to beat an Eco thou. Bottom end is known to stand upto 1000HP, in stock forum, just based on the way the bottom end is put together.

As for swapping in a 3800: Sure you could do it, but it's going to cost. Guiguilandry is the only guy I know that has done this. There was a guy over in NJ that was going to swap in a totally stock 3800 S/C motor, just so he could race me and win. The sad thing is, with the horsepower increase, plus the added weight, the car was going to be a little bit faster than stock, but not faster than my car. :lol:

With that said, if you do it, and do it right, it's going to cost some bucks. It requires some custom work and it's not a common swap, so kits are not ava. It's not like an LS swap into a S-10.

[guiguilandry]

based on my experience the l61 is wayyyy better than the ld9...
i had both stock and also both supercharged and I can tell you that the ecotec is by far a stronger and more boost happy engine than the ld9
you can safely go up to 325-350hp on a stock ecotec with no modification at all... the ld9... it's gonna blow really soon if you want to push it that hard without forging it..

[aleros_eat_rice]

Given all of this info, I think I'll keep the GLS simple. Ported, cold air, etc., and try to find another with the ecotec and supercharge it.
I could pluck the charger from a wrecked cobalt, or again with the worst case, a brand new supercharger kit for the ecotec is about $2600.

[guiguilandry]

yeah but a used, complete kit up here cost around 850-1000$ and a tune is about 500$

AND FYI probably this summer I will have a kit for sale with an alerady tuned pcm...

[Nas Escobar]

To nas why would you not turbo a l61...that is how gm pushed around 900hp on the factory block

He said he would supercharge a l61

No particular reason, I was going by ease of parts availability. The L61 had the M62 option which was a supercharger and it later found its way into the Cobalt. Notice I also said turbocharge a LD9, and I stated as such because it's more common than the supercharge build. These examples were that... just examples. I wouldn't hesitate to build a turbocharged L61, and in fact I think it would be more intriguing than a supercharged one considering that not many people have done a turbo.

Anyways, both the LD9 and the L61 can be turbo or supercharged. It really dones't matter what you chose, what mattes is how you build the internals, I wouldn't just slap an s/c or turbo on an engine without making sure it can handle the boost.

Seems like swapping for the LD9 is the best bet to go s/c. The superchargers are readily available, and since the Alero used it as well, shouldn't be too difficult to do. The problem being, I need to get an LD9. I can get all of the other stuff (exhaust, belt drive accessories, etc) as I'm building up to get the motor.

I would recommend you getting a second car. Unless you already have a backup car or a daily driver, you're going to cause many headaches swapping a 3400 to a LD9 or L61. I think there was a member on this forum that went from a 3400 to a LD9 and he always had wiring issues. To make a long story short, if you want a LD9 in your car, you need to swap EVERYTHING that's not frame, body, or trim out. The trans has to go (different gear ratios), the wiring has to go, the PCM and BCM have to go, you might have to swap out the fuse box. It's a royal pain not to mention a big money pit, whereas if you already have the platform, all you need is the parts. Seriously, it's easier this way.

IDK how you want to do this type of engine mod, but I would recommend looking for a low mileage $1500 - $2000 Alero and go from there. I know many are going to tell me it's impossible, but I bought a rare Cutlass Supreme convertible for $1500 and a Camaro for $2000, both with low miles, 2nd owner, and good condition. Sure they needed to be fixed up, but what used car doesnt have issues? Take the hunt slow and it will come.

[aleros_eat_rice]

That will probably be what I do. Get a stock Alero w/ ecotec, rebuild and supercharge.

Still want to port and cold air the 3400.
Btw, what kind of power and/or efficiency differences can I expect if I port everything and mount a cold air on the 3400?

[sleepyalero]

Just build up the 3400. Its faster then the 4 cyls of course.


You will see a decent increase in power. Mine takes stock ones easy. With my mods and a tune that is unfinished atm im at 240 ft lbs tq. Hp I cant tell you. But I dont doubt my torque going up more once I get the tune locked In.

[aleros_eat_rice]

I was considering taking plenum, lower and exhaust mans from a junkyard Alero and sending them somewhere like milzy to have them ported. Then, when I rebuild the motor, I can send in the heads for porting and milling.
Edit:
That'll probably be what I do. I know I can expect decent power increases, as a friend from work has a 98 GAGT with the 3100, ans he had his ported, milled and tuned. Says his power jumped up a bit, even with it being NA.
Plus, I think I saw someone in the timeslip thread post their all stock Alero quarter mile, at like 16.9 or so. This makes me feel good, because I think back to a video of a Turbo Civic SI attempting to keep up with a Buick Grand National. The GN gives the Civic a head start and still pulls off a 10.4, but the Civic takes it to (I think) 15.9 or so. Since mine is stock now, it wouldn't fall too far behind.
Here's the video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g7RBeYfOkk&feature=youtube_gdata_player)