Won't turn over

[mastershake]

Well, I had a pretty good stretch of problem free driving, until now. Went to get in my car and noticed the key fob wasn't working... So I manually unlocked the car. Got in and tried to start it, lights come on and I hear the fuel pump but it won't turn over. No security light (that's what I thought at first because the symptoms are identical). Any ideas??

[jawa]

so the engine will not turn over or it will not start?

have you tried jumping it

all fuses good

does the starter selinoid click

[sleepyalero]

Id try a jump. Could be a little dead maybe? If not that. Jack up the car a little bit have one person crank the car over and you tap on the starter with a hammer while said person is trying to start it. Not hard but a decent tap... if it fires up from hitting the starter you need to replace it.


Or you could go have your starter tested

[jawa]

Id try a jump. Could be a little dead maybe? If not that. Jack up the car a little bit have one person crank the car over and you tap on the starter with a hammer while said person is trying to start it. Not hard but a decent tap... if it fires up from hitting the starter you need to replace it.


Or you could go have your starter tested





if the car cranks over it would not be a starter

[mastershake]

Tried jumping, didn't work. Fuses are good. Tried tapping the solenoid while my friend turned the key, don't work. It's not even cranking. Lights are perfectly fine.

[sleepyalero]

if the car cranks over it would not be a starter

maybe your right? I forget how that works.... guess tap on it if it didn't crank. oh well brain fart. :)

but with your problem idk... sounds tricky... plugs/wires ok? are you sure you are getting spark to the coil packs and stuff?

[a.graham52]

Said it's not cranking foo.

Tap the starter motor, not just the solenoid. Get down there with a test light and make sure ur getting power to the big cable at the starter. Then make sure ur getting power to the little wire when the key is in crank.

[sleepyalero]

I skimmed.

[jawa]

check the ground under the battery tray too

[RalphP]

Check the small wire at the starter, see if it gets voltage when the key is turned to "START". If not, I'd look hard at the ignition/starter switch and the connector on the back (although typically, you'd be losing the instrument cluster and it would be spinning over and cranking, but not catching and starting.)

If yes, well - starter replacement time.

BIG hint - if you need to replace it, rather than buying a "Made by children in the cheapest place on Earth we can find" reman'ed unit at a Big Box store, find an old line starter/generator/alternator shop (ideally, the sign on the building was painted last in the 1950's - 1960's or so!) and get your current one rebuilt.

Or swap for an already-rebuilt one from the local guy, if this is your Daily Driver and you need it to get back and forth (then again, if it's your DD, you're already renting / borrowing / using the fun car / hitching rides / whatever to get back and forth ... )

And take a few pics as you take it apart - it's a bad feeling when you're looking at the new-to-you starter, and can't remember which connector which cable goes on!

RwP

[MilzyZ34]

try jumping the starter with a screwdriver (connect stud little purple wire to stud with power wire), if this works, the problem is a security relearn. If it doesn't, you have a power problem.

[mastershake]

update on this: had it towed to the shop. was there overnight and they have no idea what's wrong with it. starter is fine. they said maybe BCM, maybe ignition switch, maybe the radio (???)

but they basically said sorry no can do. so i'm having it towed to the dealer. aaaaand i may or may not be buying a new car.

[MilzyZ34]

update on this: had it towed to the shop. was there overnight and they have no idea what's wrong with it. starter is fine. they said maybe BCM, maybe ignition switch, maybe the radio (???)

but they basically said sorry no can do. so i'm having it towed to the dealer. aaaaand i may or may not be buying a new car.

get the car back, and try to fix this yourself. I have a feeling the dealer is really going to stick it to you on this one. The first shop sounds clueless. I think you'd have a better chance trying to fix yourself with a little advice from someone who actually knows what they're doing.

Have you even tried the security learn?

[a.graham52]

Giant case of "everyone gives tons of advice an op never used it"

[mastershake]

sorry guys. i'm not "ignoring" your advice. this is my first car. i do not have the skills, tools, time, or space to figure this out by myself. i figured i would rather let a mechanic take care of it than screw with it myself.

the dealer called and also has no idea what's wrong with it. they said "good news, we got it to start. bad news, we don't know how...."

he said there may be an exposed wire somewhere in the dash thats "injecting" voltage into another wire.. i was half asleep when i talked to him. he said he's going to call me back today to update me.


probably buying a buick regal.

[03glgold]

There was no point in posting if you werent going to try and fix it yourself... it isnt impossible for them to play games with the clueless person...if you mentioned to the gm dealership that if it wasnt fixed you would trade it in of course it will be unfixable...they will make a sale and get your car for cheaper trade in... while not all people are bad that doesnt mean you can trust everything you hear...if they got it to run they have a good chance of knowing how while sometimes there are freak incidents

[sleepyalero]

most dealerships can screw you over. so you will have a bill wether your problem is fixed or not, and they will make more money off you selling a car.

i go to my local GM dealer when i severly need them (dont trust auto shops) my car goes to dealer only when it needs something, i have one guy there that is a tech, its the only person i deal with, and the only person i call when i need something, the car goes in, they treat it VERY well never had a problem out of them, and they know how i am about my car. they are very respectful with it, and im very appreciated for it.

yes, it is more money out of my pocket to have them look/work on it compared to most side shops, but that extra cash im happy to spend at the dealer knowing they treat my car with 110% excellent care. great guys at that place.


now, not every dealer is like that, ive had friends get screwed by other dealers. so me finding this one, its the only one i stick with.

[mastershake]

again, sorry guys. if i had time (working 12 hour shifts at the PO) and it wasn't so freezing out, and if i didn't need a car to get to work, i would keep it here and attempt to fix it myself. the reason i started the thread was to just get ideas. i guess i'm just curious.

also, i'm not buying a car from the same dealer i took my car too. and i'm not planning on trading it in. if they can't do anything with it, i'll tow it back here and mess with it myself before parting/scrapping it.

[mastershake]

just picked the alero up from the dealer. it's running fine. they don't know how. apparently none of the modules were communicating when they hooked the scan tool. they tested the voltage at the ALDL connector and it was way too high (8 volts when it's supposed to be 5). when they took the voltmeter off, everything started communicating again and the car went back to normal...

my car is haunted.

p.s. sorry for the double post.

[MilzyZ34]

just picked the alero up from the dealer. it's running fine. they don't know how. apparently none of the modules were communicating when they hooked the scan tool. they tested the voltage at the ALDL connector and it was way too high (8 volts when it's supposed to be 5). when they took the voltmeter off, everything started communicating again and the car went back to normal...

my car is haunted.

p.s. sorry for the double post.

sounds like BS to me. The DLC (Data Link Connector) has 4 wires going to it ... one 12v power wire, two grounds, and one serial data wire. Sometimes it also has a 5th green wire, but I've never seen one with a grey 5v reference wire for it.

[mastershake]

you guys think my ultragauge could have had something to do with it?

when i first discovered it wouldnt start, i noticed the ultragauge's backlight was lit without the key in the ignition... so i unplugged it.. just went and tested it on my moms car and it doesn't work anymore :(

rip ultragauge.

[a.graham52]

Could have. If it failed it could have broght down the comm circuits in your car. But things should have returned to normal shortly after unplugging it.

[a.graham52]

sounds like BS to me. The DLC (Data Link Connector) has 4 wires going to it ... one 12v power wire, two grounds, and one serial data wire. Sometimes it also has a 5th green wire, but I've never seen one with a grey 5v reference wire for it.

Serial data communication wire should have an average of 2.5V (aprox) on it. It's a 5v circuit.

[MMGT1]

I bet the thing went through a CASE relearn and that's what the problem was..... but what the heck do I know

[MilzyZ34]

Could be right about voltage on the serial data line. I don't test that wire for voltage, just continuity, resistance, and short to ground. With the output on that wire being a stream of data from the pcm, I just don't think measuring the voltage is the best way to test that.

I think it's pretty hilarious that the dealership is clueless when they are the most expensive option, and also the option people assume would be the ultimate solution to their problem.

[a.graham52]

Many times iv run into the situation where the problem is no longer present and there's just nothing I can do. I could just throw an SDM in a vehicle for a history problem... But then we become STealerships. Can't determine the problem and then were idiots. No matter what they only care when u screw up.