Water in LH IP fuse panel and lower A pillar

[falloutboy]

Hi sorry, to rush this a bit, but I didn't search the forum, just looked at the general waterleak diagnostics

Got some nasty water or condensation happening on the backside of my fuse panel.
first of, does someone have some good pics on how such a broken seam looks at the windscreen, or where and how these drain hoses look on a sunroof?

Or how else to check for a waterleak, as this seems to not happen if it rains a lot, more if the car sits there for couple days / weeks

and last, how to clean the back side of the fuse panel without taking stuff apart too much.

thx, and cheers
Julian

[MMGT1]

The moonroof drains is where I'd start. Open the roof all the way. At the 4 corners of the track you will see a hole, those are the drains. Use a compressor and blow gun to blow the lines out. The holes you see have hoses attached to the underside. It is a good idea to drop the headliner and ensure that one of the hoses did not come loose/let go under there too. Because its on the left side Im thinking its the moonroof myself

[falloutboy]

Thanks for the fast reply.
Because its on the left side Im thinking its the moonroof myself
Why that in particular?

[[ion] C2]

because nothing else usually causes this

[falloutboy]

ok, will take a look there asap.

I love this forum, everytime u need something fast and precise, u get delivered.
:usa:

[MMGT1]

If nothing found there the next step is whats called "The Paper Test"

Tear a 12" strip of paper, fairly good gauge stuff, but not cardboard if you catch my drift. Open door, drape paper over door as far forward as you can. Close door on paper then try to pull paper out. You should be able to actually pull it out, but not easily. If it just pulls out without much effort at all then the door requires adjustment or a new seal. Check all around top section of door for possible locations that water may be able to by-pass the seal.

[a.graham52]

Could be windshield. I could lift the windshield out on corner on my by hand. Here's a good test. May require to people. Get a garden hose and start at the base of the windshield. Nice gentle running water. Don't use a lot of pressure. Hd that position for about. 2 minutes and inspect for water leak. If no leak found then go a few inches higher and repeat. Go all the way up the windshield and then across the top. Once/if a leak has not been found around the windshield then I like to take a soda bottle and gently pour water down the sunroof drains . Water should not pool in the sunroof. You may want to do the sunroof test first so u can see draining from the body. Pull ur a-pillar trim and that will tell u if the sunroof drains are leaking at the top. On my cell phone so sorry for the long arse paragraph.

[Redog]

If nothing found there the next step is whats called "The Paper Test"

Tear a 12" strip of paper, fairly good gauge stuff, but not cardboard if you catch my drift. Open door, drape paper over door as far forward as you can. Close door on paper then try to pull paper out. You should be able to actually pull it out, but not easily. If it just pulls out without much effort at all then the door requires adjustment or a new seal. Check all around top section of door for possible locations that water may be able to by-pass the seal.

Probably what's wrong with my door. I get water on the floor in the back seat when it rains, well I used to, doesn't rain too much in the garage. If it did, I'd have a more serious problem :awesome:

[falloutboy]

so, tell me this cant be off works from GM
holy cow

http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/164/1710/60353366/206358846-w1188.jpg

http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/164/1710/60353866/206358914-w1188.jpg

[falloutboy]

Ok, here the Pics from my car
Didnt have a compressor handy, so i could not check the drains
SR LE front
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60386485/206362865-w1188.jpg
SR LE Mid
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60386485/206362866-w1188.jpg
SR RE mid
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60386485/206362867-w1188.jpg
SR RE front
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60386485/206362868-w1188.jpg

A-Pillar
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60386485/206362870-w1188.jpg
A-Pil top
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60386485/206362871-w1188.jpg
A-Pil top
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60386485/206362872-w1188.jpg
A-pil mid
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60386485/206362873-w1188.jpg
A-pil low
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60386485/206362874-w1188.jpg
A-Pil low
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60386485/206362875-w1188.jpg
A-pil top
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60386485/206362878-w1188.jpg

see water at lower cover, and the drop right at the bulb
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60386485/206362879-w1188.jpg

Any suggestions?

[falloutboy]

going to do the paper test now

Edit:
ok, used a thick paper, the front and middle of the upper door part seal very good - quite hard to pull it out.
the back end and upper rear side of the door are considerably more easy to pull out.
(both gaskets tested)

[falloutboy]

the drain hoses #24 and #7 are routed through the inside of the A-Pillar or where?
So by removing the pillar trim, I should be able to see / reattach them if there is something wrong?

http://genmotorinfo.com/images/12/040702MN12-031.png

[falloutboy]

ok, as I dont have air, I poured some water into the corners with funnel where the drains r.
the rear one seem to work fine
the front left, water comes out as soon as the A-pillar trim starts.
the front right, only starts to dripp mid a-pillar if I put a lot of water through it, most of the water comes out below the wheel well and rocker, where I suppose the nozzle from the hose is.

So, but to no avail the pillar trim wont come loose. and its pretty cold and wet today, and I dont wanna break anything off, as these parts r a bitch to get over here on the other side of the pond.

[falloutboy]

ok folks, I am stumped.
ripped the a-pillar trim off - what a PITA - the hose is attached and not cracked or anything else.

I found a smaller hose and stuck it to my funnel, now I could pour water directly into the drain.
NO water spilled out anywhere, except at the end of the drain hose where it belongs.
But if I fill the area around the drain with water I get a small dripping from above onto my headliner. But I cant feel or see where it is coming from.
The only thing that is odd, is this brown hose / pipe, but it seems like its coming from the top of the motor, so it cant be culprit.

Feel free to speculate.

The hose (the cracking is the cracked paint) its completely dry
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60394433/206363807-w1188.jpg
from the sunroof seen, with the hose in the background
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60394433/206363808-w1188.jpg
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60394433/206363809-w1188.jpg
end of brown hose
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/60394433/206363810-w1188.jpg

[MMGT1]

I would urethane the entire area around the drain up top. Make it so the water has to go into the drain and no possibility of going anywhere else

[falloutboy]

looks almost that I have to.
but now my time ran up, and I need to put everything back together, hopefully I have time in the next month to tackle this issue again *grmpf*

thx for the help.

[unchained01]

get someone to spray the car while your in it I think the windshield maye leaking if you have the sunroof drains cleared and working correctly Also look for very small crack in the sealant around the A pillar and at all points where the body panels are welded together I used to work at a body shop and did a lot of warranty water leaks

[falloutboy]

Have to dig this up again, as I had no chance to work on the car. I just drove it again last night.
And guess what, the water on/in the fuseblock made my IP cluster and gauges cut out and all warning lamps to shine :eek:
which is not nice if u have a 3 hour in the mid of the night drive ahead of u.

The car itself ran smoothless, as usual :D , but this scared the carp out of me.

So any hints, recommendation, drawings and torque specs to the get the interior trim of, to get the headliner out, to get both fuse block out of the IP are really appreciated

[falloutboy]

ok, took the headliner off as far as possible without having to tackle that bs wiring.

So, it seems like that the drains works fine, but somehow if the sunroof is closed and car parked for a long time (multiple weeks) water runs down the pillar and puddles up in the fuseblock.

First of, the closed sunroof and its fitment to the outer roof panels
front
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596689-w988-h741.jpg
front left
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596690-w988-h741.jpg
left back
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596691-w988-h741.jpg
back
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596692-w988-h741.jpg
back
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596693-w988-h1317.jpg
front
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596694-w988-h1317.jpg

right side closed - no apparent leak
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596695-w988-h741.jpg
left side closed
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596696-w988-h741.jpg

this is where the leak seems to be. But how and why the water gets there in the first place
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596697-w988-h741.jpg
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596704-w988-h741.jpg
left side
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596701-w988-h741.jpg

gap between sunroof frame and roof panel - this ridge has to be passed by the water.
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596702-w988-h741.jpg

from front
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596703-w988-h741.jpg


btw, looks like there is something missing in these 2 "hinges" - may this cause the leak?
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/11/2852/62108952/206596707-w988-h741.jpg

[falloutboy]

ok folks, i am stumped.
I reassembled everything except the a-pillar trim yesterday and wanted to park the car outside today. Have to drive around the block for this, and as soon as I hit my first left turn, a finger thick stream of water shoots across the dash, the steering wheel and onto my pants.
coming from the lower opening for the trim clips.
Well I plugged the drain and filled the hose to the top, drove a bit up and down on my steep driveway to get rid of the excess water in the sunroof and went for the same testdrive.
And well, NO water.

unplugged the drain and whoosh - all the water out of the drain hose.

Where did it come from, and why only on left corners and on a slight incline with a left touch.
I hosed the car down, bottom to top, left and right, and nothing, and now all of sudden. ?!

help me guys.

[xXManwhoreXx]

I wamt to man.... I just have no idea :-(

[a.graham52]

How tight is the rubber seal around the glass? I had a truck made a gurgling noise going Down the road because too much water was getting past the deal .

[falloutboy]

Well it seems to be tight, as after draining the car in water, the roof panels around the the glass below the weatherstrip were bone dry (and still dusty).

but at the corners it seem like that there can water pass, but after pouring about 7 Liter on the weather strip itself, there was no accumulation around the drain hose or so, and no excessive water around / at the sunroof frame :(

[falloutboy]

yesterday it was raining like hell.
today was pure but cold sunshine.

the sunroof, the drains and the drain hoses were bone dry.

Hard acceleration and a left hand turn, I get spray by water that seems to be creeping up the a-pillar and out of the clip-hole.

After that, I also saw that the grommet for the door cables had water drips on it. But no water at the end of the drain hose, it was almost like it came out of the grommet and boot.

Any insights?

[a.graham52]

Did you ever water test the windshield like I discribed Earlier?

[falloutboy]

Could be windshield. I could lift the windshield out on corner on my by hand. Here's a good test. May require to people. Get a garden hose and start at the base of the windshield. Nice gentle running water. Don't use a lot of pressure. Hd that position for about. 2 minutes and inspect for water leak. If no leak found then go a few inches higher and repeat. Go all the way up the windshield and then across the top. Once/if a leak has not been found around the windshield then I like to take a soda bottle and gently pour water down the sunroof drains . Water should not pool in the sunroof.

Did this test a few days ago. To no avail. No leak, no nothing.

[MMGT1]

Are your rockers in good shape? Have you looked at the rockers under the car? Wheel well, any cracks in seams in wheel well?

[falloutboy]

Hmm tbh, I dint really know. Never got the rocker cover off, without risking to rip the plastic apart.
So yes, will have to check these parts next time I get a chance to look at it.
This may take several month again :(