Sleepys tuning thread.

[sleepyalero]

Paul this one is basically for you. i hate to keep bugging you through pms and emails on questions. i feel like i sound annoying haha. :) but i sent you a pm a few days ago about how to get to the table to change what you requested with no reply. (i assure you, im not trying to sound like a rooster!!!) so mainly this it to Paul. or anyone with HPT knowledge.

anyway i posted this on GAGT as well. but almost no one there uses HPT. so i was out of luck. ill just paste everything i said over there to here. so here it is.




okay im going to use this thread as a place to ask my tuning questions when i have them. so i will ask one here in a sec. and maybe more down the road. so stay tuned.


anyway me and a guy from aleromod have been tweaking my tune. and sometimes when he tells me to change things its hard to find the table cause im still new to tuning and HPT. but hes usually so busy that when i ask where to go i sometimes dont get a reply.... (which i understand hes a busy guy! i just dont like to keep annoying him about how to do this and that and so on)

anyway he asked me to do this....


"Remove 2* timing from map of 96 and up

Get timing a constant 40* in the 45-58 map range

Little false KR shifting at high RPM but nothing to worry about

Trims look really good actually"



i asked him to break it down a little for me and i got this back.


"Look at your timing table, it is based on MAP pressure. Remove 2* from the table where it covers 96Kpa to the top of the table, the whole area"




all i need to know really is. how to get to the table he wants me to change. so if anyone knows can you say like open hpt> click engine> spark tab> etc... to help me out. i believe ive changed it before but now i cant seem to find the table.





one more thing. what does he mean by get timing a constant 40* in the 45-58 map range? bare with me im still learning in tuning. ive been making changes and sending him scans via email and been getting alot of help. im just trying to get one step closer to finishing the tuning so help is appreciated.

[sleepyalero]

okay i found the table i believe. engine > spark > advance tab > main spark advance high/low octane.

said remove 2* from 96kpa. i see it as this. it goes up to .92 and i dont see it say kpa?

[MMGT1]

Hey bud...lol

Open your scan and "load all data"
In your scan, look to see where g/cyl are at when you are hitting MAP of 96kpa. Then go to the high timing table and remove 2* from where you hit 96kpa and carry that removal of 2* all the way to the top of the table. While tuning, make sure you are copying your high octane and pasting it to your low. Once the car is tuned you can remove 3* from the low table in case you do ever get a bad tank of gas, that's what the low table is for. If your MAF were to fail, your car would in turn also use the low timing table.
For cruise, timing it is good in the 40-42* range. Again, in your scan, find what g/cyl are reported in the 45-58kpa MAP range(the area that your car resides in at cruising speed) and adjust timing so you get 40-42* while cruising. I use the Graph view to find the area I want, then cursor over the spot your zeroing in on and switch to table view. In table view you will see g/cyl and MAP. When you cursor to where you see the MAP range you are looking for, just look at g/cyl and you will have the exact cell nailed for timing change... make sense????

[MMGT1]

And here is probably a good place man, I can barely get on the PC anymore here because of the kids and that dam Netflix!

[sleepyalero]

I figured so haha kiddos!!! ;)


Seems to make sense... ill give it a shot probably tomorrow. Gotta be up in 6 hours. So ill report back tomorrow and let you know if I have issues.

Thanks Paul!

[MMGT1]

I should have said, when you have your MAP and can see g/cyl you need to reference RPM as well. The table works off g/cyl and RPM...

[sleepyalero]

Haha okay. God this seems difficult. Ill give it a shot after work and report back. :)

[sleepyalero]

i cant find "load all data"

[sleepyalero]

okay i loaded the scan. never saw a load all data. but i looked through the scan and it shows this...

at 96kpa it is .59 and .60 g/cyl. but the kPa went all the way to 100. dunno if that matters. but heres some data.


at 96 kpa it was .59 and .60 g/cyl.

at 98 kpa it was .60 g/cyl.

at 99 kpa it was .58 and .54 g/cyl

at 100 kpa it was .52 g/cyl then went down to 98 kpa at .49 g/cyl.


does all this matter? or should i still just make changes to the 96 kpa part and adjust the timing as suggested above paul?



if you look back on the scan yourself just letting you know im looking at the 6k scan i sent you a few weeks ago. which im sure thats the one you wanted me to look at... so i dont know why i said that... lol i think you knew what scan i was in. :)

[Shiwnath]

okay i loaded the scan. never saw a load all data. but i looked through the scan and it shows this...

at 96kpa it is .59 and .60 g/cyl. but the kPa went all the way to 100. dunno if that matters. but heres some data.


at 96 kpa it was .59 and .60 g/cyl.

at 98 kpa it was .60 g/cyl.

at 99 kpa it was .58 and .54 g/cyl

at 100 kpa it was .52 g/cyl then went down to 98 kpa at .49 g/cyl.


does all this matter? or should i still just make changes to the 96 kpa part and adjust the timing as suggested above paul?



if you look back on the scan yourself just letting you know im looking at the 6k scan i sent you a few weeks ago. which im sure thats the one you wanted me to look at... so i dont know why i said that... lol i think you knew what scan i was in. :)

When he says load all the data, I believe he means play through the scan so the data populates in the histogram log tables.

[sleepyalero]

Oh well yeah thats how I got all that info you quoted.

[AleroB888]

okay i loaded the scan. never saw a load all data. .....:)

Right-click on the Histogram display, you'll see it......click on "load all data"

[sleepyalero]

Okay. I will try that. Thanks.

[MMGT1]

There is a reason I go to histograms and load all data. I find the program has a heck of a time scrolling through data in the Chart view, it screws up, freezes, acts funny so to speak overall when trying to view it. If you go into histo view and load all data before looking around it flows much nicer when using it.

Sleepy, get a new scan today if you can. Use the config I gave you as always, try photobucket or something to post your file on and give us a link here. I'm putting a big push on myself right now to make money to give the kids a good Christmas this year. And I'm aiming for a head, cam and stall package for my TA after Christmas as well....lol So, I'm busy as all hell right now. 3 painting jobs going at the same time and they are all big jobs man. After dinner I'm going to be on most nights though, only going to work a couple of nights a week is the plan. I'll keep an eye here and lets get you set up! B is really good at this too, keep an eye for his posts in here as well if he gets involved. What he has put together there is no small feat, he knows his shit as well with this platform!

[sleepyalero]

Will do paul. Thanks alot buddy and best of luck. :)

[sleepyalero]

i cant figure out for the life of me how to upload a scan to the site.... so im going to just email it to you paul.

got some high KR in this one. car went up to 6300 or so rpm cause my shifter didnt want to go into gear during one pull. so i missed the shift. :p but took it up to 6k in second to 3rd gear. (lots of traffic, rush hour) but i got a scan in. i loaded all data in the histo. saw what you meant.

but before i continue to do anything... ill let you look over my scan since you wanted a new one. good news is TPS goes to 100% now. :D



edit: email sent.

[MMGT1]

Good, Ill get on the PC and have a boo at it and post up here. Wont be able to load one here. You could post it on HP tuners and post a link here, or post it on photobucket and post a link to it here

[sleepyalero]

I tried photobucket. It wouldnt take it. I might try hpt site later. Im out at bdubs for wings beer and sports with fisdad. Go colts!

[MMGT1]

Your lean in PE now Nate. Open your tune, then go under **Airflow**. MAF calibration, highlight the table from 7500Hz to the end of the table. Multiply highlighted area by 1.05 and get another scan. Don't pull timing just yet. You will loose a bit of that KR when your fuel is a little deeper in AFR

[sleepyalero]

PE?

and okay will work on it tomorrow! Thanks!

[MMGT1]

Power Enrichment

In your scan, when you watch Commanded AFR, you will see, when you go wide open throttle, that your commanded fuel goes from 14.7afr to 12.9afr. Right where that drop happens is where PE Mode begins and continues through to the end of the MAF table. Tuning PE is not recommended without a wideband but I know that in a 3400 you will end up with a reported value of around 930 on the narrow band to get 12.9 to 13.0 afr. Need a wideband to do it right but as I said, in my experience you are a tad lean and need to add some fuel up top there.

Looking at your scan again here, make the adjustment 3% instead of 5%. I think 5% is going to overshoot the mark. Multiply from 7500hz to 10,500hz by 1.03 and get a scan after to shoot over to me. I'd like you to add 2% to your MAF table from 5000hz to 7400hz as well there bud. Its just a tad lean right before PE mode and this should fix that right up!

[MMGT1]

Do you have rigid mounts on your car?

[mfuller]

Do you have rigid mounts on your car?
He has the same mounts as I do, since we both have 6-speeds.
The bushings in the tranny mounts are Delrin, and they are very stiff.

[MMGT1]

Good to know! When I get the latest tune I will look at your control of KR and see if we cant desensitize them a little. The v6s have extremely sensitive KR sensors as they are fluid referenced..... more on that once I go over his latest scan with above changes

[sleepyalero]

Awesome Paul! Thank you matt as well.

Should have known about pe lol brain fart.

Also I do have a wideband in the car. Just not hooked up to the tuner.

[mfuller]

Wideband is very beneficial to WOT tuning, as it provides much better resolution.
I don't have my NGK AFX wideband hooked up yet; I need to review the how-to on the HPT board to wire it in through the unused EGR harness.
I think that's how Paul did his.

[sleepyalero]

It seems to have a plug on the side for it. Was always curious if you had to hardwire or you could just plug it straight in.

I have the pro series hpt.

[sleepyalero]

Just made changes to maf calibration. Though you told me to go to fuel then maf calibration. I found that table under airflow. :p

[sleepyalero]

okay Paul you have an email. :)

[MMGT1]

True that man, was hurrying pretty good this morning...lol

I can help both you guys wire your wideband in. If you have the PRO the resolution is twice what you get going through the EGR. I think EGR is fine myself, but if you want to really get serious you use the data port right on the Pro Box

[sleepyalero]

i have no EGR :p but if it helps tuning i might do it... mine might be a paint to do it though. all my wires are pretty tight and not much slack.

[MMGT1]

Sleepy, you've got PRO as well right? Check this out dude...

http://www.hptuners.com/help

once there, type "wideband" into search. Then click on "EIO How to" section

Then click on "How to install a wideband"

Follow the steps to having your PRO report your wideband AFR instead of EGR signal

[sleepyalero]

I do have pro. And okay ill look at it in awhile.

[MMGT1]

In the latest scan, you've got your fuel bang on up until PE(7500hz), looks perfect now bud. We have you within 1% of actual. Thats whats known as a "Lab grade tune". Having trims within 1% is really freakin good....lol

Shoot me the latest copy of your tune when you have a chance. I am going to have a look at your timing tables now and your KR tables

[sleepyalero]

In the latest scan, you've got your fuel bang on up until PE(7500hz), looks perfect now bud. We have you within 1% of actual. Thats whats known as a "Lab grade tune". Having trims within 1% is really freakin good....lol

Shoot me the latest copy of your tune when you have a chance. I am going to have a look at your timing tables now and your KR tables


Awesome man. Will do im about 10 mins when I get back to ryans :)

Also what about the VE tables? I know a while back you said we could do that as well since I now have a manual car. Lol just curious but will report back here soon and let you know I sent the email.

[MMGT1]

Yup, we are going to tune VE as well, but need your wideband for that one, running through HP Tuners. And once you have your wideband reporting in your scans we can properly set up PE mode. I know I have you a tad rich in PE, but that is for safety for now....

[sleepyalero]

fantastic.... lol i just emailed you the latest tune. :)

[MMGT1]

K, Ill get a copy of your tune on a usb stick and bring it out here so I can have a look

[MMGT1]

Ok, open your tune...

Engine:Spark:Retard:Knock Retard Delay

Open High Load Table and Multiply the table by 2
Open Low Load Table and Multiply the table by 2

This will cut the return to High Octane Timing table in half. Or double the reaction time of a knock event, how ever you want to think of it

The V6 also pulls far too much timing when an event happens. So, under Knock Retard Attack, open Base Retard. Multiply table by .5, cutting it in half.

Make these changes and get yourself yet another scan and shoot it over man.... We will keep this step by step so we don't make too many changes at once. When you do that it gets really hard to find where or what has caused a problem.
When a car comes to me for a tune, this is why I need it for at least a full day to get them right. Step by step until you get it nailed...lol

[sleepyalero]

sounds good. gonna throw another coat of paint on ryans gauge pod then ill make the changes. and hopefully get you a scan on the way home.

how do i quick multiply a whole table on a laptop? when you had me do the previous maf changes i typed each section out on a calculator and made the changes one by one. :lol:

[MMGT1]

In the Left Top of each table there is an empty box..., click it. The entire table will highlight. Then click in the Calculator box and enter value that you are using. IE: enter .5 then click X for the Retard Attack Table. Highlight the High Load, enter 2, then X. Same for low

[sleepyalero]

Thanks paul. Changes made. Scan will be shot over in a little over an hour

[sleepyalero]

okay maybe 2 hours ;) email sent man.

[MMGT1]

Here, make this your timing tables. Make this table your high and low and scan again man...

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz159/MMGT1/th_Sleepy_timing_zps13df1c87.jpg (http://s823.photobucket.com/user/MMGT1/media/Sleepy_timing_zps13df1c87.jpg.html)

Here's how it should look in 3D view

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz159/MMGT1/th_Sleepy_timing2_zps8ea43374.jpg (http://s823.photobucket.com/user/MMGT1/media/Sleepy_timing2_zps8ea43374.jpg.html)

[sleepyalero]

Here, make this your timing tables. Make this table your high and low and scan again man...

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz159/MMGT1/th_Sleepy_timing_zps13df1c87.jpg (http://s823.photobucket.com/user/MMGT1/media/Sleepy_timing_zps13df1c87.jpg.html)

Here's how it should look in 3D view

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz159/MMGT1/th_Sleepy_timing2_zps8ea43374.jpg (http://s823.photobucket.com/user/MMGT1/media/Sleepy_timing2_zps8ea43374.jpg.html)

mmmm corsa exhaust. :)

i will have to scan on monday or late sunday night. storms passing through tonight and tomorrow :(


thanks!!!!

[MMGT1]

...

[MMGT1]

Should be pretty good with that table I think. Need to wire your wideband to the HP Tuners program now. What WB do you have?

[sleepyalero]

Should be pretty good with that table I think. Need to wire your wideband to the HP Tuners program now. What WB do you have?

i looked at the chart comparing to yours. all numbers are the same but when i view the 3D chart im viewing the back of the graph... so basically im looking at the back of the yellow section and watching it go green but cant see the full incline when it goes from green to yellow. but i went through the table 4 times making sure i had all numbers correct, so i should be okay.

as for the WB. i have this.

http://www.aemelectronics.com/digital-wideband-air-fuel-gauge-745


my aem af wideband has more then 4 wires. has a seperate 4 wires i tucked away that arent being using (i think its 4. ill have to look tomorrow) but i am assuming thats what you use to connect to the HPT. i had the box and instructions somewhere... gotta find that..... hmmm

also i cant remember the colors off the top of my head. i know there is a white wire and a light blue wire. maybe a black one as well and one other im not sure?



EDIT: looking back through gagt back when i bought it... i believe it is an aem UEGO wideband. so the 4 wires it has should be a blue, white, black, and red. black and red i believe are being used for power/ground of course. but i think i tucked away the blue/white wires since they werent needed at the time.


red: 12V power.

black: chassis ground.

white: 0-5V output.

blue: serial output.

[MMGT1]

White to pin 1 on EIO connector, black to pin 5

Then open your config file. Right click on the EIO section of the table view, EIO1. A window will open and in the list is wideband, click on it. Thanks to the guys at HP Tuners your wideband is already programed into the software. Click on your particular type of wideband and it will now show in your table view in real time when scanning.

See image below:

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz159/MMGT1/th_AEM_Wideband_zps351bb5c6.jpg (http://s823.photobucket.com/user/MMGT1/media/AEM_Wideband_zps351bb5c6.jpg.html)

[MMGT1]

HAHHAHAHahahahahaa.... when you look at it in 3D view, put your cursor over the graph, then rt click to "grab it". Move your mouse/touchpad to rotate it to any view in 3D space. If you hold the left and right click at the same time and move your mouse forward or backward you will zoom in/out on the table as well for future reference

[a.graham52]

HAHHAHAHahahahahaa.... when you look at it in 3D view, put your cursor over the graph, then rt click to "grab it". Move your mouse/touchpad to rotate it to any view in 3D space. If you hold the left and right click at the same time and move your mouse forward or backward you will zoom in/out on the table as well for future reference

ha! iv been trying to figure out that one forever!

[sleepyalero]

Lots of good info In here. Thanks paul!!


So since my ground wire is already being used do I just splice a wire into it?

[MMGT1]

Hey Graham, start a thread entitled, "Making histoghrams work in HP Tuners" and I will go through the process with you if your still having issues getting them to work... I'm in a giving mood this week and would like to see you guys use this thing to its full potential. The histo's are a dam powerful tool when you learn how to use them!

[MMGT1]

Lots of good info In here. Thanks paul!!


So since my ground wire is already being used do I just splice a wire into it?

No, I would not. Make sure the ground is sourced from the wideband, don't just ground to chassis from EIO interface

[sleepyalero]

Hey Graham, start a thread entitled, "Making histoghrams work in HP Tuners" and I will go through the process with you if your still having issues getting them to work... I'm in a giving mood this week and would like to see you guys use this thing to its full potential. The histo's are a dam powerful tool when you learn how to use them!


If your in a giving mood... give me a bigger deal on those mufflers!! ;) jk bud. :)

No, I would not. Make sure the ground is sourced from the wideband, don't just ground to chassis from EIO interface

Okay ill figure it out.

[MMGT1]

...

[sleepyalero]

How nice of you. :)

Im sure a pipe can be welded of course

[MMGT1]

...

[MMGT1]

...

[sleepyalero]

Agreed :) haha. Thanks for the help on the mufflwrs. Ill wait till you get more pics and stuff up in the other thread.

[sleepyalero]

Paul, rain cleared roads dried. Tune will be thrown on the car soon. And will get another scan. And I will try to get the WB hooked up as well in this scan.

[MMGT1]

Just make sure you use the 0-5v wire and not the serial one...lol The serial one will look like a narrowband signal. The serial wire you can connect to the factory ECU and "simulate" a narrowband signal. Its balls up man when you connect that way. If you did do that though, you have to leave your WB in full time

[MMGT1]

If you just unplug your narrowband and scan, you will see a constant 450mv reported. That is the programmed "switch point" of the factory tune. The % that the narrowband swings above and below that point is how the ECU derives your trims. When you unplug your narrowband it puts you in open loop. This makes tuning with the wideband a snap because the computer is seeing a constant 450mv and will not allow any trims in PE mode. Good data is the most important part of tuning, always keep that in the forefront of your mind when doing this

[sleepyalero]

Well the way I did it was ran two wires. One to the white wire. And one for a ground. About to hook it up to pin 1 and pin 5 and see if it shows. (Wideband still installed and will also show me a/f)

[sleepyalero]

Ok paul all wired up and did a quick scan at idle to see if it read on hpt.

It does read. When car is in the on postion not running.. 12.1 afr.

Started the car is was a pretty steady 14.1 at idle. But my gauge itself hops around between 14.3 and 15.6 at idle. And hpt doesnt show what my gauge reads. Is that normal? Or is something not hooked right?

I will scan the car this way anyway for the afr reading if it is correct or not. If its not then domt go by it in the next scan you recieve.

[sleepyalero]

okay, scratch that.... i know somehow you said to change the egr or something to read as afr. but i looked through the how to hook up wideband on hpt/help that you posted a couple pages back and it does exactly show me how to use it in hpt... atleast i couldnt find it.


i have one wire hooked up to my AEM wideband wiring, and it runs into pin 1. ran a ground wire to chassis of car. and ran to pin 5. the whole scan im about to email you shows 14.7 afr. but i also found out that i chose the only thing i saw regarding afr for the chart. "air fuel commanded low res" thinking about it on the way home. i think thats only showing me what its tuned to be and it didnt move all the way home. but in my reply above. it did move slightly. i revved it and it showed 11 afr then went back to 14.1 so idk where to go from here to show me afr in the scans.


good news is... only 1.2* KR in this scan. :)


let me know on the wideband if you can. i cant seem to figure it out. but i sent you an email with the scan.

[MMGT1]

You did as above right? Added it to the EIO section of your table view? It will show in that section of the table view if you did, you do not need to add anything else to your config. AFR commanded is exactly that, what the car is aiming for, the WB will give you actual AFR. Its the difference between those two that you will tune in so your Commanded(Afr Commanded low res) will match what your WB actually reads.
If your WB is slightly different than what is reported in the scanner, you can adjust the final number in the function string to match the scan. Yours will have a final value of 10 in the function string of the wideband PID, Ive seen a lot of AEM users end up with 9.8 as the final number in the string to get it to match the scanner

[MMGT1]

Sleepy, this is how your table should look once you have added the Wideband to EIO

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz159/MMGT1/th_widebandAddedToTableView_zps4655ba56.jpg (http://s823.photobucket.com/user/MMGT1/media/widebandAddedToTableView_zps4655ba56.jpg.html)

[sleepyalero]

oh okay! now i got it to look like that. thanks!!

did you get my scan i sent you via email last night? just want to make sure.


ill test it later to make sure it reads it because im sure ill be going out again later... maybe. if not tomorrow.

[MMGT1]

Just got your scan on a stick about to have a look

Need a copy of your latest tune. I want to bump timing in the cruise range now that the fuel is good. I think we can get a few more degrees out of it yet there

For now, go to your MAF table again, highlight the table from 4500hz to 10,000hz and multiply by .98
This will remove 2% from that table. We need slight positive trims before PE so it will not pull fuel like it did there

[sleepyalero]

Oh okay. :)

[MMGT1]

Cool, shoot me your tune and Ill post a screen shot of a table for you then you can try it out. I say we set you up tonight to start VE tuning... we can use your NB up to around 4000RPM, above that we want the Wideband

[sleepyalero]

All I have is a wideband and okay I will in about 10.

[sleepyalero]

tune sent to email.


just did some quick research on difference between a narrowband and a wideband. it said for tuning a narrowband is pretty much useless compared to a wideband. but you know what you are doing so ill let you determine that! :)

[MMGT1]

Narrowband is no good for PE mode, no. There are so many variances between narrowband sensors when outside stoich, which is 14.7:1AFR or 1 Lambda that it makes them pretty untrustworthy. Same platform car can have a narrowband report 890mv wot, and 930mv in another!
But, here is where it gets the debate going, narrowband sensors kick ass at reading stoich. They are specifically made to do just that, read stoich. I trust a narrowband, that is in good working order, aiming for a stoich value.
Then, to boot, if you tune stoich values into your PCM using a wideband, as soon as you hook the narrow back up there is going to be a variance of a couple % between what the wideband had you tune in and what the narrow now reads. Guess what?... then trims would pull or add fuel to make it stoich according to what the narrowband reads! This could easily result in your car pulling fuel in PE making it go lean when you "think" you have a perfect tune.
My 2-cnts.... make sure the O2 sensor is good, people spend the better part of 700 bucks to get HP, they need to make dam sure the car is mechanically sound. Use the narrow band to tune to PE, ensuring 0 trims entering PE and the MAF is used solely to fuel car. Then wideband from where you enter PE to the end of your reachable table. Consistency is key to me and if trims are messing around with delivery in PE that's no bloody good at all

[sleepyalero]

good info! are you saying i need a narrowband? my o2 for the aem wb gauge is still in good working order.

[MMGT1]

Alright, give this timing table a go. Should get you a bit higher in cruise areas. Did a bit of smoothing as well.
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz159/MMGT1/th_timing2_zps46f8b924.jpg (http://s823.photobucket.com/user/MMGT1/media/timing2_zps46f8b924.jpg.html)
And in 3D view should look like this
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz159/MMGT1/th_timing2_3D_zps23763310.jpg (http://s823.photobucket.com/user/MMGT1/media/timing2_3D_zps23763310.jpg.html)

Shoot me a scan after you set the MAF and this timing table. Remember to copy the HIGH table to the LOW table when tuning

[MMGT1]

If you are going to run your wideband full time, leave it exactly as it is bud. Let the WB generate the narrow signal

[sleepyalero]

okay cool. i will make the changes. and should have a scan for you tomorrow evening. :) and should have AFR reading in the scan as well.

[sleepyalero]

changes made. my graph at the top left in 3D looks a little "rough" compared to what you showed me. i went over all the numbers and they are all the same. so im guessing its okay.

[xXManwhoreXx]

No One Cares Nate

[sleepyalero]

Paul sure does!

[a.graham52]

No One Cares Nate

who the eff are you again?

[xXManwhoreXx]

Go away troll

[WhiteV6]

stop ruining a good thread.

[sleepyalero]

good call ben. ;)

[MMGT1]

When you go into 3D view, you can smooth out the "roughness" to make it look like what was posted in post #77. When I make a timing table, I use table view to set what it needs, then switch to 3D view and make sure it is all smoothed out. The table view is the exact timing table you see there in the 3d view. Yours would look a little different as when you manually enter your timing numbers, you enter whole numbers. The smoothing happens in fractions, which you cant get through whole numbers.
So, enter your values, as you have, then open it in 3D and give it a little "hand smoothing" as we call it. Hover over a point that is raised and you will see the red circle highlight that exact cell, left click and hold, then move cursor up or down to pull timing curve in line with the rest of the tables' trend. In other words, make it look like the one I posted. Hope this is straight forward man.... let me know!lol

[MMGT1]

And Nate, something I caught in your tune last night....
Fuel:Power Enrich:PE Throttle: From 4000rpm and up set the pedal to 45%.
70% above 4000RPM is delaying PE a little longer than I like to see. This should result in you entering PE every time at 7500hz on the MAF table no matter when/where you hit it for power.

[sleepyalero]

Seems easy enough. Ill try to get a scan today. :)

[a.graham52]

I noticed in my truck that PE requires 95 % throttle!

[sleepyalero]

okay paul. smoothed out the 3D table best i could. looks pretty close. and changed PE throttle to 45 from 4000 rpm all the way to 6400 rpm. ill get a scan for you later on my way home with all this.

[sleepyalero]

okay i got a scan in. its long... sorry ill break down where the WOT points were. i just recorded all the way home.

but few issues... i hooked up the aem wideband and the whole way home it read a 12.79-12.80 and i also did raw voltage in the scan..... it constantly read 1.440-1.445 but once again the gauge itself read between 14.4-15.6 afr. so idk whats up.......... you'll see it in the scan paul.

also the KR went back up this round. it went up to about 4*


anyway to break the scan down a little bit so you dont have to do much digging... (its 33mins long) :lol:


3rd-4th gear pull - frame 2881

2nd-3rd gear pull - frame 6511


email sent

[MMGT1]

I got pretty heavy on the timing to see where it would pop up. Ill get your scan and have a look. And the best scans are 20 mins plus by he way. Gives everything a chance to settle in and will result in a lot of hits throughout the tables we need to see data in. So a half hour scan is good to see actually

[sleepyalero]

Oh okay. Last I did was like 10 mins or so hahaha.

[MMGT1]

Go through this to see if something is different than what you are doing

http://www.thetuningschool.com/downloads/how_to_setup_wideband.pdf

Video

http://www.thetuningschool.com/downloads/how_to_setup_wideband.wmv

This way you will program your sensor in yourself instead of the HP programming

[MMGT1]

I don't think that blip of KR is anything to worry about either. Once VE is tuned, then you can put a final touch on the timing. See if you can get the wideband reading properly

[sleepyalero]

okay cool. i dont have microsoft excel so im trying to download it to get there spreadsheet.

[sleepyalero]

alright lots of info.... jesus..... head hurts. :lol:

i did as they said. though aem wideband never came with a disc to "configure" the gauge. so basically i have enough info from them to basically trouble shoot this myself and see if i can get it to match my gauge in car.

will try to do this tomorrow morning, and have a scan tomorrow evening.

[MMGT1]

Dont know if you noticed yet, but you've picked up a fair bit of torque. Hitting 238 now, up from 225 when we started on it. Peak torque for you seems to be 4400 to 4700RPM and a nice steady fall from there. From the scan, its looking good man

[sleepyalero]

i saw!! tim can actually vouch for me on this ive texted him a few times telling him new tq numbers i see in the scans :) he asked where i think itll top out at i said im not sure. 250 would be a nice goal for now. ;) or atleast a little closer to it once all said and done.

[sleepyalero]

Still no luck on the wide band. Still only reads 14.78-14.79

The LM1 gauge they had in that video has a program with it to configure it differently. Idk if aem has that.

Also could it be the blue wire I hook up to instead of white?

[mfuller]

Just wanted to mention that I am thoroughly enjoying this thread.
Paul knows his stuff and has helped me sort things out in the past (tuning up to 7Khz on the MAF using NB only), and hopefully I can get additional assistance when I finally get my WB wired in.

[sleepyalero]

Glad you like it matt. Some good useful info for anyone throughout this thread.

[a.graham52]

Just wanted to mention that I am thoroughly enjoying this thread.
Paul knows his stuff and has helped me sort things out in the past (tuning up to 7Khz on the MAF using NB only), and hopefully I can get additional assistance when I finally get my WB wired in.

by the looks of thigns all you have to do is review this thread as a resource when you get your WB up and running lol.

[sleepyalero]

pretty much, yet i still cant get mine to work properly through hpt!

really frustrating. im at work though so cant do anymore research on how to get it working correctly till later. :(

[MMGT1]

This is what I hope we end up with here. A resource of sorts for the V6 platform using HP Tuners.

[MMGT1]

Merry Christmas dude....

http://www.virtualdyno.net/

Just something to have a little fun with

[Starglow]

Merry Christmas dude....

http://www.virtualdyno.net/

Just something to have a little fun with

Thanks....! :awesome:

[sleepyalero]

Thanks paul ill give this a shot probably next week and see what it reads.

[MMGT1]

Took me a while to figure the dam thing out...lol
You set up your scanner to log, click on start scanning and then press the space bar, this will pause the scan, then get to 4th gear, I think your trans is 1:1 in fourth, my car its third gear....anyway... once in your 1:1 gear, start the scan, hammer it and as soon as you hit the top of 4th hit the space bar again to pause the scan. Once you stop, save the scan. You cannot let the car slow down, you must stop scan at the top of 4th.
Then open the log as if you were going to view it. Then click on scan in the function bar at the top. Bottom of that list you will see "export file". Once you export file it automatically converts to a .csv file. This is the file you need to open in the virtual dyno.... Good luck!

[mfuller]

The gearing in the F40 is kinda wonky.
4th gear in the MT2 gearbox is actually a slight overdrive at 0.95.
I which I could have gotten the MU9 gearbox which is geared a bit lower (numerically higher) in 4th through 6th.
Going to redline in 4th isn't really possible for sleepy or I unless we're on the rollers (it's somewhere in the vicinity of 144MPH).

[sleepyalero]

not really. quite easy to hit top of 4th. (atleast for me, you have a bigger rpm range then i do but i dont see why you couldnt hit it as well.)

lets put it this way.... 142mph in my car im in 5th gear at about 5150 rpms.

[MMGT1]

You could still do third gear pull to try it out. On the rollers they will probably just put you in third anyway...

[MMGT1]

Sleepy, up for some VE tuning? We could get you started anyway and did you get your wideband to read in HP?

[sleepyalero]

We can do some ve tuning im down. And nope I cant get the damn thing to read right.... idk whats up...

[MMGT1]

Sleepy, shoot me all the info you have on that wideband, I'll figure it out...

[sleepyalero]

All I really can give you is the link to it.

http://www.aemelectronics.com/digital-wideband-air-fuel-gauge-745


Idk what other info you need. Ive had it for two years hooked up. I ran two wires... one for power to the white wire to pin #1. One wire for ground on oass side of car to chassis to go to pin #5. Went through the whole video from thetubungschool that you sent me. Couldnt do the first step where they "calibrated" the LM1 gauge they had because my aem gauge didnt come with a program to do that. Im just at a loss man. :(

[MMGT1]

Your sensor does not require calibration. I'll find the range of the sensor and things we need to build our own Wideband PID for you. I want to rule out HP's program as the problem here before having you mess with your wires.

[sleepyalero]

I searched a little on hptuners.com.....

Things I found was....

To unplug my wideband o2 and the gauge shojld read a constant 14.7 inside the car. Then get on hpt and fiddle with the config until I have jt matched then plug back in. Alot of people have the same issue as me but everytime someone steps in on a thread and asks about my problem.. no one really gives them a direct answer. Basically tells them to search. Or other small things... like click on aem afr in the input aux and its all set up. .

Some say a bad ground was there issue. But I think my ground is strong and should be in working order.

[MMGT1]

If you dont have it, here is the owners manual for the AEM 30-4100

[MMGT1]

Something to check over to make sure its reading properly
When connecting to AEM’s EMS, make sure toverify that the O2 #1 Gain option is setso the voltage from the O2 #1 Volts parameter matches the voltage input at the EMSfrom the O2 sensor. An easy way to do this is to disconnect the UEGO sensor from the UEGO gauge. When in this state, the UEGO gauge will output 2.35 volts. You can then adjust the O2 #1 Gain until the O2 #1 Volts display in AEMPro reads 2.35 volts.
When connecting to a third party EFI system, the AEM UEGO gauge’s WHITE Analog Output wire shall be connected to the analog O2 sensor input of that system.

[sleepyalero]

Thats all very confusing I dont reallt understand. Lol

What is ems? Break down what you just said for me if possible haha

[MMGT1]

It's just a way to check voltage of the sensor output. Your gauge works properly in the car though right? Its just HP that is not getting/processing signal properly. In the owners manual, the sensor has a range of 8.5 not 10, so I'll build a config and send it to you.

[MMGT1]

Sending you a config file via e-mail to try. I have set it to report in Lambda, not AFR, so don't be surprised when you see values around 1 in the scans with it if this works. Shoot me a log after you try the config whether or not it actually works for you

[sleepyalero]

Yes gauge works in car. And okay. It may be tomorrow. Thanks! :)

No email yet

[MMGT1]

Hey.... buggerballs.... found something. Your entry into PE had me going in circles a bit and not sure how I missed this, but you still have delay enabled in your tune dude!
Engine>Fuel>Power Enrich>PE Delay>Delay vs TPS
0 that POS out dude! Now we will get what I'm looking for man.

Setting up a post right now on how to VE tune your car... brb... lol

[sleepyalero]

Haha okay ill get to it! Havent had a chance to do anything today to the car though. But thanks for the extra info. Ill get a scan as soon as I can :)

[MMGT1]

V6 VE Tuning

Now lets see if we cant get your VE table a little more in order. You've made some serious mods to Airflow and Fueling, so you are the perfect candidate to actually need proper VE tuning done. First off, we need to put the car in Open Loop and keep it there for the duration of the tuning process. We cannot have Closed Loop kicking in at any time whatsoever or it will ruin any data that you log. The simplest way to get the car in Open Loop is to unplug the narrowband. This is the easy one, lift the hood, unplug MAF and unplug the narrowband, close hood, done!
The problem with V6 VE tuning using HP tuners was always the fact that we did not have control of Commanded AFR in Open Loop. You could force open loop but what you were left with was trying to tune a moving target making it really impossible to do. Now you can do this properly with the addition of a couple of tables in the Editor for you!
Open your Editor and your current tune, then go to Engine>Fuel and set up your tables as illustrated in the attached pic
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz159/MMGT1/th_V6_VE_Tuning_zpsd6d23a51.jpg (http://s823.photobucket.com/user/MMGT1/media/V6_VE_Tuning_zpsd6d23a51.jpg.html)
What you are doing in those tables is setting a solid target for Open Loop, 14.7AFR. Setting the open loop enable temp to its highest setting is another security measure so that you do not go into closed loop.
Make these changes to your tune and remember to unplug your MAF. Some people like to go into the DTC's and turn off the check engine light you will get when you fail the MAF, I don't. When that check engine lamp illuminates you know you have properly failed the MAF and you are now utilizing the VE table to fuel the car.

*A note about timing in open loop/SD Mode
When in open loop SD your car will use the "Low Octane" timing table. This is why, when tuning, any change you make to the High table gets copied to the low table. Both tables must be equal at all times.

Hopefully your VE table is not far enough out now that you cannot start the car. If the car wont start with the changes to the tune, I'll take you through getting it to start. Lets just go with the fact it will fire up and go from there for now. Use the config I sent you last night and get the car up to full temp driving around before starting to scan. A good 15-20 driving around and then should be good to go. Get a good 20-30 min log driving around and keep it below 4000RPM. Try to get up to speed as smoothly as possible and do not "down shift" while logging. Once you have your log, shoot it over so we can go through it.

Oh, and if you notice, the tables description is reversed in HP. Just set both tables how it is in the pic and your good

[sleepyalero]

This will be fun lol

I thought I needed afr for ve?

[MMGT1]

Scanning in lambda will still give me % offsets. I want to see if we can get lambda to work, if not then we can go up up to 4000rpm using nb. I'd really like to see us using the wide band though if possible. I forgot to tell you to unplug the narrow band as well. updated the post... but unplug both maf and narrowband for ve tuning. Been a while since I've VE tuned a V6 but we will get there...lol Aiming for 14.7 in your car is aiming for lambda 1.

[sleepyalero]

What is my narrow band

[a.graham52]

What is my narrow band

#1 o2 sensor.

[MMGT1]

You are using the narrow output from your wide band I believe. Unplug that connection so the computer is not getting a signal from the sensor

[sleepyalero]

My wideband isnt hooked up to the pcm at all

[MMGT1]

So your nb is in place then? #1 O2

[sleepyalero]

I do have an up stream o2. The one after the cat is gone

[MMGT1]

Then follow original instructions to ve tune it. Make sure you unplug the #1 and the MAF when you do this... We may go back to using it up to 4000RPM if you cant get your wide band to read in the HP Scanner

[sleepyalero]

So I need to unplug my stock o2 sensor and maf?

[MMGT1]

yes, you dont really have to unplug the NB, OL will be cancelled out when you set the OL temp to its max, but it is just insurance. Again, this will only work this way if your WB is reading in the scanner. If not, we will need the narrow band to tune the ve to 4K. With the wideband working we will tune the full range of the car in ve

[sleepyalero]

Gotcha. Lot of things to do now. Its been cold and havent wanted to work in the garage on it. Ill try to get a scan thanksgiving day with all these changes.

[sleepyalero]

okay paul. did a scan. didnt go over 4000 rpm. took it easy, 30 min scan. the aem gauge did not read period in the scan. so idk how much you got to work with on this one. but ill shoot it over now via email. also zero'd out that table you told me to do. hope you can do something with this scan lol

also unplugged maf and o2 for this like i was told. :)

[MMGT1]

Well, its useless...lol Just had a look at it. You have everything set up right, but no info from WB at all. So, for now, plug the #1 O2 sensor back in, use the "fuel trims 2" config file and get another scan bud. Keep the MAF unplugged and we can at least see what the trend of the VE table looks with that for now until we can figure out whats up with your wideband bud. Too bad I cant just pop over and fix this...lol If the car was here I bet I would have it working in no time. Hell, I would patch the signal right from your gauge to the tuner to make it work if I had to. The gauge works so I wonder if you could figure out what lead going to the gauge is carrying the signal and attach that to pin 1. What is the gauge reading when you drove it like this? Did you see or notice?

[sleepyalero]

Upsetting.... okay will get another scan when I can. I will try the other wire it has soon to see if I get a reading... and the wb during the scan was anywhere from around oh... 12.x to 13.3 I believe I saw?

[MMGT1]

Well your definitely running rich down low then. Multiply the lower region of your ve table by .95 to take 5% out and see where it puts you for now. You could "kinda" do it this way, get yourself as close as you can, but we really need to get that wb reading Nate.

[xXManwhoreXx]

What you need is wifi and a remote desktop viewing program... and you can actually control his computer and type stuff

[sleepyalero]

paul i just replaced my laptop today because my old one was getting to unreliable imo for me to trust it for tuning. transferred all my hpt files over to the new one so im all good to go now. plus this one actually holds a charge.... lol okay so for the new scan you want you want me to unplug the maf only correct? also are you wanting me to use the "ve" cfg file you sent me awhile back via email? and ill try and swap the wires tonight and see if i get a reading paul... we will see.


eric it wont fix my WB issue if he was accesing my computer. its something to do with the wb wiring or something idk its hard for me to determine atm.... im sure if paul was here he would fix it no problem and make me look like an idiot. :lol:

[MMGT1]

Yea man, but use the fuel trims 2 config. That will give us what we need to tune the cruise region to stoich values. From that I can extrapolate the trend of the VE table and get you pretty close in higher regions. You can get a visual on the WB once we tune the lower region and see how close we get it and adjust at that point.

[sleepyalero]

Alright I will let you know soon... also do I need to upload the "ve tune" where I had to match all tables when you explained how to ve tune on previous page or leave the tune I have now?

[sleepyalero]

alright paul I got a scan. switched the wires around on the aem gauge this time using the blue wire as my power to pin one with no change. it would sit at 12.78-12.79 whole time (again) going back and forth. so im stumped.... ill have to post on hptuners soon and see what they say... knowing them they will be like search its been covered. but honestly ive looked through all that crap and nothing has fixed my issue.

but onto the scan... I just emailed it to you. changed the VE like you said x .95 half table... I don't know how far half table was.. so I went into airflow - main VE - and highlighted all the way to 3200 rpm and did x .95 on it. unplugged maf for scan... I don't know if you only wanted up to 4000 rpm or higher so I did mainly 4000 or less rpm and 2 small pulls above that... one in second one in 4th (at a low speed kind of so it pulled kinda slow up to about 90 and I let out) watching the WB here and then during the scan....

well lets back up for a second.... when I first did the VE change and uploaded tune I started the car and it was reading high 16.x low 17.x on the WB. gave it a min it started to creep back down.... so while driving.... at WOT I saw 12.8-13.1 afr. and while cruising it hit 14.1-15.7 afr.

hope I did ok with this scan. like I said I didn't know what rpms you wished me to keep it at so I didn't go over 4000 rpm much. but hopefully you can get something out of it. :lol:

[MMGT1]

Shit man, sounds like you are spot on! The AFR you are seeing is exactly what I want you to have there. Ill try to have a look at your scan. My PC is crashing constantly right now, thankfully my lap top is fine...lol 15.7 is a bit lean, I like to keep them to 15.3 or under

[sleepyalero]

right on! I have two separate tunes I have been running. my "real tune" and then a "VE tune"

so when it comes to VE tuning I make changes you request then load to the car and get a VE scan with it. then I load my "real" tune back on the car. so those VE changes you had me make are now not currently on the car, they only were for the scan.

I also took another scan on my way home after the first one I shot over to you ill send your way in a second. its my "real" tune that we have been working on before VE work. last thing I made changes to on it was tps vs delay or something when you told me to zero out the table for PE. so ill shoot that over as well to make sure we got what you are looking for now.

also, would you suggest making changes to my "real" tune with the VE changes I made for the first scan I sent over to you?

[MMGT1]

nope... pc is dead, I have no access to email at all here. I think the power supply has crapped out

[MMGT1]

yes, you should run the ve tune you had for the scan

[sleepyalero]

Okay ill make changes. And looks like you gotta computer shop like me lol

I cant remember if I sent you second scan.... ill check in a bit. I was falling asleep on here last night

[MMGT1]

Took my pc apart last night and need power supply for sure, have to try and find one today

[MMGT1]

Sent model number to my bro, hes going to look and see if he has a supply for me at home... might get lucky here...

[sleepyalero]

good luck! I just checked my email and I infact did not send over the other scan I took last night, so I emailed it to you just now.

[sleepyalero]

just posted on hpt forum for help on my aem afr problem.... hope someone will help.

[MMGT1]

Managed to set up email on my lap top for now Nate, so I will get any messages you send from now on. Chad, my brother, does not have a power supply for my PC so I have to find one myself. This should be fun...lol

[sleepyalero]

haha awesome and I hope you get your issue sorted out.

you should have two emails waiting for you. most recent one you received is a non VE scan. latest change was the 0 out table you had me do. another was sent a little earlier in the day or the day before that one which is a VE scan. I believe I said in each email which is which. but im just verifying with you to be sure and so you know. :)

[MMGT1]

Your VE scan, all you need to do now is open your histograms and go to VE error, long term trims, copy that table and then open your tune in editor. Highlight the VE table there, rt click, then paste special multiply by % half. Once you do that, hand smooth the graph like we have before, load it back in the PCM and go through the process again. Your % error is really good there anyway, your within 3%, so its not going to take much to nail this at all. I'd say this will take three goes and you'll be done with it

[sleepyalero]

Alrighty sir :)

[sleepyalero]

sorry paul lol your going to have to dumb this one down for me a bit. :p

also not one answer on the hpt forum. im starting to hate that site.... lol

[WIALERO]

are you able to remove the top speed limiter and such and tune for 93 octane and more ect with this hp tuners? if so i may go up to my buddys collage and use the hp tuners they have up there but find someone who has the saved blueprint? or file or whatever it is for set up kin of like.. say if i saved a document and sent it to u i save it open it up and apply it kind of deal?

[sleepyalero]

you have to have credits for your car which cost 100$. I can view it and tell you what to change (even though im not very experienced with it yet so please don't lol) but since I don't have your car credited on my tuner I wont be able to change and send the file back to you so you can just throw it on. and yes you can take out the speed limit, rev limit, etc. you can change anything and everything.

[MMGT1]

Not 100% sure where I am loosing your there bud.... hahhhaaa
Open scan, then VE Error in histograms, rt click and "load all data"
Highlight entire table, rt click and copy
Open editor, then open your VE table
Rt click on VE table
you will see paste special, multiply by % half... click on it
Then smooth the transitions of the table
Save file... call it sleepyVEtuning
Load the new file to your car
Then do it all over again, scan, save scan, open VE error in Histos again, copy the error again, paste it by % half as you have at this point done once already. Repeat this process until you have near perfect trims, ie: less than 1% error and at that point your VE table has been "tuned" and your good to go!

[sleepyalero]

ThanK you! That helps me!!

Will report back if I have questions

[sleepyalero]

which one is ve error? I see VE LTFT, VE STFT, VE narrowband o2's, ve wideband o2, VE afr error..... wideband o2 and afr error both say this histogram is not supported with the current loaded parameters.

[MMGT1]

I want you to use VE LTFT fore this one

[sleepyalero]

ThanKs!

[sleepyalero]

been a little busy lately, so I haven't had time to do anything yet. and now snow is here. so I am at a halt right now. :(

[Nas Escobar]

Well it could be worse.... You should take winter to do stuff to the car you wouldn't have the time for in the summer.

[sleepyalero]

Thinking about camming it.... but need money.

[a.graham52]

MMGT: email sent!

[MMGT1]

MMGT: email sent!
Replied

[MMGT1]

Sleepy...

Fixed wideband issue. Apparanty the input to the HPTuners can ONLY have the positive side hooked up. When I wire the ground to it, something happens to the PLX module and it wont read anything on the external gauge or in HPTuners.

^^maybe you should try it this way bud

[sleepyalero]

Okay sorry I havent had anything for you. Roads have been nasty and the car is basically put away for the winter. If I catch a day thats decently warm with dry roads and no salt ill get a scan.

And okay so your saying use the postive wire from the aem gauge to pin 1 only and do no ground?

[MMGT1]

Exactly, give it a try. No need to drive the car, just hook it up and see if it reads with just the pin 1 connected and car in run position with scanner going

[sleepyalero]

Okay will try that when I get a chance and let you know. :)

[sleepyalero]

Not 100% sure where I am loosing your there bud.... hahhhaaa
Open scan, then VE Error in histograms, rt click and "load all data"
Highlight entire table, rt click and copy
Open editor, then open your VE table
Rt click on VE table
you will see paste special, multiply by % half... click on it
Then smooth the transitions of the table
Save file... call it sleepyVEtuning
Load the new file to your car
Then do it all over again, scan, save scan, open VE error in Histos again, copy the error again, paste it by % half as you have at this point done once already. Repeat this process until you have near perfect trims, ie: less than 1% error and at that point your VE table has been "tuned" and your good to go!


Okay paul. Car is in top shape again. She had a big list of maintenance to be done over winter. Then had exhaust issues. Then IAC issues... but she seems good now. I still have not done this yet. But will be and tuning will start within the next week to get it finished up. Maybe work on it tomorrow evening.


Is this the last of the tuning (what I quoted) I have not tried the POS only wire to the tuner for the A/F gauge yet. So I will also fiddle with that tomorrow possibly as well.

But ill work on what I quoted above from you. And let you know. Hope you are still around here! Havent seen ya in awhile! :)

[MMGT1]

...yup, always around, not much for me to post on lately bud. But, Im always checkin in man

:scpimp:

[sleepyalero]

Alright!!!

:)

[sleepyalero]

question paul..... just to make sure im on the right track for what you said.


open scan, open histo, go to VE LTFM, load data, copy data. open editor, primary VE, table says primary VE vs rpm vs MAP. select table in editor. right click shoot paste special and click x % half. then smooth the graph?

also I looked back... idk how to do VE been awhile, I looked back at your VE post. I read through it, but the pic you posted along with it is now not showing.

do I still need to keep the rpm under 4000 for this?? unplugging the maf still needed as well?


also where am I looking at to find out when I am less then 1% error in fuel trims??

[MMGT1]

question paul..... just to make sure im on the right track for what you said.


open scan, open histo, go to VE LTFM, load data, copy data. open editor, primary VE, table says primary VE vs rpm vs MAP. select table in editor. right click shoot paste special and click x % half. then smooth the graph?

This is correct ^^

also I looked back... idk how to do VE been awhile, I looked back at your VE post. I read through it, but the pic you posted along with it is now not showing.

do I still need to keep the rpm under 4000 for this?? unplugging the maf still needed as well?

Correct as well ^^


also where am I looking at to find out when I am less then 1% error in fuel trims??

In scanner, look to your LTFT's for now, there are STFT's and LTFT's there plotted against your VE. its under histo's but just use LTFT's to get you close for now

Did you get your wideband functional yet?

[sleepyalero]

Okay. Ill mess with it tonight or tomorrow.

I have not messed with thr afr gauge yet. Will maybe try yomorrow. I will let you know. :)

But still unanswered... how do I know when im within the 1% error. Can I look at something to tell me? Or will you just tell me once I send some scans?

[MMGT1]

Your scan of VE in histo's is your error bud. You need to apply that error that is reported in the scans until you get within the desired error. With VE there will be a 3-4% variance day to day depending on ambient temp, fuel, weather, baro and so on. It is best to do VE tuning in one day to get the best results. You will chase your tail forever if you try to get it to within 1% on a daily basis

[sleepyalero]

Okay. But im still lost. How do I know when im within that 1%?

Maf still has to be unplugged correct?

[MMGT1]

When the error reported in the VE Histo is only showing a value of 1 is when you are within 1%. The histogram is showing you your actual % error

[sleepyalero]

Okay. Im sorry paul, long winter its like almost starting all over again with this... lol :(

I appreciate all the help with this though. Honestly man.

[sleepyalero]

Good news paul! I got the wideband working!!!!

I just got done doing a scan. I will email you the scan soon and we can get going on this.


But lets say how I figured it out. Well I had my wire hooked up to the blue wire on the aem gauge. And put in pin 1. Read 12.78 to 12.79. But then started to read 10.xx-13.xx... so I removed my signal wire from the blue wire and attached it to the white wire. Hooked to pin 1. Started doing 12.78 to 12.79 I fiddle around with it then finally figured out the issue..... the pin connector on the side of the box doesnt seat firmly... so when I pushed the pin connector down firmly with my thumb I started to get an accurate reading on hpt software and compared to my gauge in car. And all was okay. So I took a rubber band, wrapped it around the box and on the pin conmector and it works great now! Just gotta keep a rubber band on it. But im just happy it works!

[AleroB888]

... Just gotta keep a rubber band on it. But im just happy it works!

And....


........That's what she said!......:awesome:

[sleepyalero]

thanks B lol

[sleepyalero]

okay paul, scan sent to your email. I ment to get a copy of my current tune as well just in case, but forgot... I got to excited that I got the gauge to read through hpt. :lol:

[MMGT1]

Checking my email now....

[MMGT1]

Your MAF is still enabled there but all good... may as well clean that up first. If you open the scan you sent me you need to go to "histograms" then go to Histo #8, should be your MAF AFR error. Right click on it and "load all data". Make sure you have your playback in histo set to "A" which is Average. Highlight and copy the entire string from 3000Hz to 7500Hz. Then open your current tune in editor and open your MAF table. In there you will highlight the same cells you copied in your scan, right click on it and then click on "Multiply by %-half". Save the tune and flash onto your PCM. Get the car up to temp then get a good 20-25 min scan of your new tune and shoot it over

[sleepyalero]

Alright will do this tomorrow! I left the maf plugged in and everything. I was to excited I got the aem gauge working. Lol.

My fuel pump died on me yesterday. I just replaced it with a walbro pump. :)

[03glgold]

The way i understand it the car had to stay in the rain...were you able to sleep that night knowing she was outside getting wet :p

[sleepyalero]

The way i understand it the car had to stay in the rain...were you able to sleep that night knowing she was outside getting wet :p

It was a bit aggrevating. Lol.

[sleepyalero]

Paul, I do not have a maf afr error histo....

1. Main spark - timing advance
2. Main spark - timing retard
3. VE - long term fuel trims.
4. VE - short term fuel trims.
5. VE - Narrowband o2's
6. VE - wideband o2.
7. VE - AFR error.
8. LTFT/STFT (not supported with current parometers)
9. LAMBDA/MAF (not supported with current parometers)
10. Unused.
11. Unused.
12. Unused.


And the config file used for that scan was fuel trims (2) one you set up for me that I have been using since day one.

[MMGT1]

Ill shoot you a config to use, will have everything you need

Sent...

[sleepyalero]

Fantastic.

So I need to do a new scan then make maf changes. Then another scan and send to you??

[MMGT1]

sent, you can make the changes I had said in the previous post using the config I just sent

[sleepyalero]

okay just got your email and understood from that. :) thanks bud.

[sleepyalero]

okay changes made. will throw onto the car shortly then get a scan.

I will be using sleepyAEM CFG now for the scans unless told otherwise?

[sleepyalero]

okay paul, I was messing around in the driveway. idle, and tried to do an idle scan with the new CFG you sent over.

few things I have noticed. when I tried to scan, the WB became an unsupported parameter. when I would delete it, reload it, save CFG then scan it would then work.

after the scan (remember only idleing and a few small revs) I would go into histo's and the maf afr error was not available, it said unsupported.

BUT if I did a scan with the fuel trim cfg. then open that log file in scanner, and open the sleepyaem cfg, I then could view the MAF AFR error from the idle scan.... so a little confused here....

I tried to redownload and save the cfg and use it, still same issue.


so I need to know, should I keep scanning with the fuel trim file. then look at it through the sleepyaem cfg or??

if no answer from you soon, I will just use fuel trimming cfg then look at results through sleepyaem cfg...


Oh and the the LAMBDA gauge did not read at all

[sleepyalero]

Scan sent to email

[MMGT1]

You can just shoot over scans like that and I can take you through it. Open the tune of the scan you last sent. Highlight the MAF string from 3000Hz to 7125Hz and multiply it by .98, then from 7250Hz to end of table multiply those values by .99
Flash that on, then unplug your MAF to make it fail to Open Loop. Get a scan of OL and we can fix up your VE table

[sleepyalero]

Okay. I cant go above 4000 rpm when maf unplugged right?

[MMGT1]

not right off the hop, no. We need to see the "trend" of the table so a good estimate can be programmed in before you go to PE mode. We can get it fairly close, mainly SAFE, before you see that section if the table being hit with actual, "real life", values

[sleepyalero]

Okay. Well the car is down again. Another bad IAC. last sensors were autozone. Most recent was napa (lasted me like a month) and car will not run on its own again. So I am going to order an AC Delco IAC to see if I have better results...

But until I get that. Car is not driveable. :(

[03glgold]

Good luck getting that IAC...it is discontinued for my 03 eco

[sleepyalero]

rockauto has it, and many other places I have found should be to hard... funny thing is, my IAC is the same one used on a ZR1 corvette from what I have found. :p



but on a side note, paul.

while the car is dead in the water, I was looking through the tune editor and came across something.

engine > general > EGR > MIN IAT

description says "EGR min IAT - above this inlet air temp, EGR diagnostics are enabled."

mine is set to 32*F. I don't have an EGR, could I technically set it to 284*F so it never enables EGR diags??


the EGR isn't there, and the plug is just dangling, but I feel the computer would still be trying to send the signal to the EGR when it isn't there... idk just a thought. looking up some info, if I did that, im understanding that it "shuts off" the EGR signal.

[MMGT1]

Set it to the highest possible temp. There is an EGR referenced timing adder in there you want no part of without an EGR in the car

[sleepyalero]

Will do paul!

Ac delco iat has been ordered so soon my friend before shes back on the road!

[sleepyalero]

I might get a scan tonight with maf unplugged. Car is back up.

[sleepyalero]

okay got a scan, didn't go over 4k rpm. and unplugged maf. and the changes you had me do to the maf has also been made.


sending email.

[MMGT1]

Hey Sleepy.... sorry its taken a while here, been working insane days and dropping dead when I get home the last couple of weeks. I got your scan and from what I see you have a choice here. Your averaging around 15.3:1 in your VE table. As you know 14.7:1 is stoich, but here is the kicker. Running 15.3 in cruise is actually close to what is called "lean cruise" mode and will net you 2-3 MPG. 15.3 is what I aim for since it is actually a very safe range to run your motor in and will gain that couple miles per gallon. So, IMO, I would not change the VE table at all below that 4K RPM and would get a scan of some WOT stuff and set up that area from here. If you so desire, to achieve that 14.7 you would add 2.5% to your VE table and scan it again to see if its a little closer to the 14.7 that gives stoich. Again, your call.
If you go ahead and decide to leave it as it is, get a scan of some WOT and shoot it over....

Paul

[sleepyalero]

Ill keep it!

Understandable you are busy. No hard feelings!


Maf unplugged? Wot?

[MMGT1]

Yessir!! .... And if your asking, take it to 6kRpm. We can check it from there

[sleepyalero]

Okay! Thanks for letting me know! I was worrying about you. :lol: but hope all is well man!

[MMGT1]

How you making out Sleepy? Any scans to have a look at from where you were the other day??

[sleepyalero]

Sorry paul. Been a little busy. I plan on getting one today so ill report back later letting you know I sent the email!

[sleepyalero]

email sent!

[sleepyalero]

Paul email sent few days ago when u asked for current tune.

[MMGT1]

Found it Sleepy.... having a look now bud

[sleepyalero]

Cool thanks!

[MMGT1]

Open your current tune, you are a little lean WOT but really close. Open your VE table under the "Airflow Tab". Highlight the bottom rt corner of the table from 4800 rpm to 6400 rpm and from 100kpa out to the 140kpa. You should have a square highlighted that is 5X5 squares. Then multiply that highlighted section by 0.985, this should land you dead nuts at 13.0:1 when WOT. Right now you are hitting 13.2 to 13.3. Not bad, but I found my best et and quarter was aiming for 13:1 plus 13:1 is very safe for these engines bud

[MMGT1]

I'd like to add, your choice in injectors was perfect! I like it, 75% at 6000RPM... Id like to see a 6400RPM shift if your willing to go that high. As long as we stay 80% or less on the Duty Cycle your good to go man!!

[sleepyalero]

My choice in injectors?? They are stock! Hahaha

[sleepyalero]

But thanks im not near my computer atm. Ill have to make changes later. Sounds a little confusing I might be back with questions later ;)

[MMGT1]

Pretty surprised your injectors are stock! Your hitting what I was hitting % wise with 36lb ones man! If they can feed it to 6400 and stay at that 80% mark then no need to touch them. That's a good thing man, money you don't need to spend...lol

[sleepyalero]

Havent touched the tune yet. I may just mess with it tomorrow at work and do a scan on the way home if I can figure out the new adjustment you want. Will I need maf unplugged again?

Also. The car is still stock motor. It has 204k miles on it (including injectors) is 6400 rpm a safe thing to do? I was a little worried going to 6000 when you first told me to just because I have never had it that high before. I always steered away from the red on the tach hahaha

[sleepyalero]

okay paul, at work and just made the adjustment to the tune, ill get a scan on my way home from work!

[sleepyalero]

okay paul, did a scan on my way home. few things for you..... after I type this out, I will shoot it over to ya via email.


anyway,

1. I did one high rpm pull for you, ended up around 6327 rpm.... after I went over 6150-6250 ish... somewhere in that range. the car kind of kicked... like idk how to explain this umm... it kinda of studdered. like you hear it vrrrooooooommmmmm then kinda studdered then would be a steady increase again then studder (studdered like twice once over that rpm range) but before that was fine, and after the pull was fine at 6k or under. I assume the injectors didn't like it?? lol

2. ive noticed a big decrease in my delivered trans tq. does the maf being unplugged play a part in this? the hot weather? its a humid 85 degrees here. previous scans (maf plugged in) I saw as high as 242 ft lbs IIRC. recently I have been seeing a max of 232 rarely but more in the 210-225 range... just curious on that.


also I had the maf unplugged for this scan. shooting it over..

[MMGT1]

Now its making sense man, being stock do not exceed 6200 RPM MAX... Going to look at your scan, and if you were overfueling before, ie: Too Rich, that will give false high Tq numbers. Since your fuel is more in line to where it should be now, your going to see lower reported tq numbers, and in actuality, more of what you would expect to see on a dyno

[MMGT1]

don't see your e-mail here either... wanna re-send?

[sleepyalero]

Okay paul. And yeah I will re send here in a few!

[sleepyalero]

sorry for the delay paul, just resent the email

[MMGT1]

Got your e-mail and replied...

[sleepyalero]

Thanks paul. Will scan tomorrow or fri night.

[a.graham52]

1. I did one high rpm pull for you, ended up around 6327 rpm.... after I went over 6150-6250 ish... somewhere in that range. the car kind of kicked... like idk how to explain this umm... it kinda of studdered. like you hear it vrrrooooooommmmmm then kinda studdered then would be a steady increase again then studder (studdered like twice once over that rpm range) but before that was fine, and after the pull was fine at 6k or under. I assume the injectors didn't like it?? lol


couldnt that just be the revlimiter?

[sleepyalero]

rev limiter is set to a ridiculous number so I don't hit it. I can have the car at a dead stop, in N, and tach it out at 7000 rpm.

im actually about to make the changes paul told me so I think I will take the rev limit to 6050 rpm. so expecially if im WOT and miss a gear I wont mash the gas and rev out the car haha. its happened a few times.

[mfuller]

With a stock cam and valvetrain, there's no reason for you to spin over 6 grand, Nate. The power peak for a stock car is 5200rpm, so figure 5-800 rpm beyond that is all you need to go.
With my old setup, even though the valvetrain was stable up to 7 grand, the power peak was at 6000rpm so there was no reason for me to spin past 6500; that's where I had my rev limiter set.

[sleepyalero]

Yeah I figured 6400 was a little drastic on a stock motor. Lol but paul asked for it, and I learned something new along the way haha. But yeah I take it a max of 6000

[sleepyalero]

well I forgot to charge my computer so it died during the scan, let me know if I gave you enough in that scan or I need to redo it, sent to your email.

[MMGT1]

fuller is bang on, when I saw that your running a stock valve sent a message about valve flutter...

[sleepyalero]

Yeah haha I saw :)

[sleepyalero]

Paul remember I sent u a scan yesterday


Edit: just read your email. How exactly would I fine tune it?