Tuning issue, problem found?

[Redog]

OK Took the car to the track today to see what the 3.29 FDR would do in the 1/4 mile. One good run, spinning for about 10-20 feet put down a 15.151@88.81, I think the spinning cost me about .3 seconds easy. The car has only had 3 14 second passes at this track. The other track, it's only had 5 15 second passes, well you get the idea.

The 15.15 run, WB read 12.2-12.6 the entire lenght of the track so I was :D

The other two. Missing like crazy. stumbling, have to get off of it and back in it. Finally past the 1/8 mile point, missing stops, car goes, runs low 17's one time and high 17's the second.

Looking at some tunes on HPTuners and one Alero guy, has more work done to his car, has a stock MAF (I have the LS1 MAF, which I will change back to stock) and his Delta flow + and - are .3, .6 and 1.2 or something like that. Both of mine are 66.141 across the board.

Air cyl pressure is a bit different, but this guy is bored out with a hot cam, I'm stock bore and stock cammed. MAP was kinda weird where I was higher than him at a low RPM, but lower than him at a high RPM.

I was thinking about coping his Delta flow and see what I get. Only looked at those 3 things. I had to get ready for work and I knew I wasn't tuning before I left.

Thoughts?

If you don't know, please don't respond. Not trying to be a prick, but I just want to get this fixed before I blow the engine, or my top :cry:

[Redog]

bump bump

[Nas Escobar]

You might want to ask this on an engine forum... not to be mean or anything, but you did say "If you don't know, please don't respond" and the fact of the matter is that most of us don't know much about mechanical, since we learn as we go.

[sleepyalero]

B888 will probably chime in, or mmgt1, maybe mfuller to.


Free bump.

[Redog]

I emailed Fuller on FB, he responded. He's going to get back to me.

You might want to ask this on an engine forum... not to be mean or anything, but you did say "If you don't know, please don't respond" and the fact of the matter is that most of us don't know much about mechanical, since we learn as we go.

Yeah, I don't want to sound mean, but just like AOTM pic posting, I don't want to go thru 150 post of guys saying "Oh man that sucks" I know it sucks, and everybody reading knows it sucks, I just want to get it fixed

[Nas Escobar]

I agree, but when people read that, people usually assume that you wouldn't take guesses, so if someone said "well maybe it's a faulty MAF" it would be assumed that you would be mad about that.

[WhiteV6]

Remember when I told you it wasn't the tune? That is still true.

[Redog]

I remember you saying it was the O2 sensor.

Your tune is still in place.

Swapped in the stock MAF and now the car still leans out a little bit, very little, but when I floor it, it's running 11.3 one time, the other 11.7, until I get off the gas. After doing some reseach, I found that boosted guys may or may not need to upgrade their MAF. I'm still NA, so....yeah

[WhiteV6]

I got an email that they added one of the tables I needed but not the trans shift pressure with MAF disabled....couldn't find it. Um...well unless your computer is special compared to every other N body, I am at a loss but HPTuners is all we have for support so that is what we deal with.

Your issue is not in the tune. There is still tuning to do of course, but it isn't the reason you drop out of PE mode at full throttle or that your O2 reads max rich or max lean randomly. Shit, I have a trans tune for you to try when we get the engine done:) Its a totally different car with the trans settings changes Gerson had done.

[falloutboy]

ok, I have no clue about HPTuners program, but I may be able to help if I get the info I need.
And especially no abbreviations :D as these tend to mean something different to everybody.

Got some graphs of what happens during ur run down the 1/4mile?

[Redog]

I got an email that they added one of the tables I needed but not the trans shift pressure with MAF disabled....couldn't find it. Um...well unless your computer is special compared to every other N body, I am at a loss but HPTuners is all we have for support so that is what we deal with.

Your issue is not in the tune. There is still tuning to do of course, but it isn't the reason you drop out of PE mode at full throttle or that your O2 reads max rich or max lean randomly. Shit, I have a trans tune for you to try when we get the engine done:) Its a totally different car with the trans settings changes Gerson had done.

I've looked at the O2 wiring and didn't see anything wrong, but if you are convinced that there is something going on in that area, I'll shoot over to my mech's shop and let him look at it. Maybe it's something down low that you can really only see on a lift :drunk:

Floor it again today and guess what happened? Getting so fucking pissed at this point, as in so pissed that a trade-in is in order

[falloutboy]

if it would be the o2, coudnt u look at ur data of it via HPTuners to see if it worked correctly or where it went wrong?

[WhiteV6]

id guess ground or power issue, not necessarily the O2 wiring itself. Id also suspect an exhaust leak as a possible problem.

[AleroB888]

if it would be the o2, coudnt u look at ur data of it via HPTuners to see if it worked correctly or where it went wrong?

Whatever the problem is, yes, a scan would be fundamental information to have.

[jackal2000]

Is your air filter in good shape?

[Redog]

Air filter is pretty good. Exhaust leak? Maybe at the headers. I have the stock metal gaskets on the rear and 1 or 2 ports on the front, going to remove and paint my headers and put the metal gaskets in place. I had the paper gaskets in place but they kept blowing out. There is one paper gasket left

Taking the car to my mech. I'll mention the ground and power issues as possibllies. He said he's never dealt with anything like this, but has heard of it. He asked how old my TPS was right off the bat.

[WhiteV6]

looking at the logs again....put your stock MAF back in. The MAF reading drops, then it drops out of PE mode.

[falloutboy]

if your TPS work, could be easily checked by a "Rauschprüfung" - but I have no clue how's it called in english.

Whats PE mode?
MAF reading drops, meaning what? The voltage drops or the signal fades out?

[WhiteV6]

TPS works fine. Power Enrichment is what commands a richer AF ratio. It goes from 12.2 to 15.7 right after the MAF drops down in its reading of air flow, then starts pulsing horribly while KR increases and AF ratio remains 15.7. I can post a screen shot if Redog doesn't care.

Oddly enough, he does some more wide open and its fine other than some light KR. Starts pulling off the throttle slowly and all the other readings react accordingly. Not sure what the wideband was reading the entire time but I am sure that is where it is tunable vs a physical issue. Could be the MAF, could be the amount of straight pipe before and after still, or something else. I hope we have the basics covered right now at least. Send another log any time:)

[Redog]

Ben, feel free to post a screen shot, I'm fine with that.

My mech also said O2. He coiuldn't get the car to act up, go figure, but he said my O2 was reading a little weird .

With his scanner an what Ben has been saying, I stopped at Advanced on the way home and expalined the problem. They are going to swap out the sensor for me, it will come in tomorrow. O2 sensor is only 6 weeks old :eek:

[WhiteV6]

First pic shows the O2 dropping off while cruising. Second pic shows the commanded AF ratio going to 15.x at 100 TPS, with KR and the MAF reading already on a strange decline. Notice the next attempt in the same pic is smoother (although lean at that time).

Can't fix the size. Built in forum conversion.

[Redog]

My car is haunted :eek:

[Redog]

After swapping the O2 sensor, the problem still exists :cry:

I was taking my son to the mall and when I got on the highway, I hear that horrible rattling again. Exhaust leak at the header :eek:

Did some research and looked up my problem related to exhaust leak and it turns out that since the leak is BEFORE my O2 sensor, this problem happens a lot.

The MAF is reading a certain amount of air coming in, but the O2 sensor isn't reading the same amount of air going out, thus causing the fuel trim to drop out and starve the car for fuel.

Replaced all the exhaust gaskets today. 2 were paper, one metal. The metal one looked fine, the two paper ones had burns all the way up the sides, not just around the port. Started the car and didn't see or feel (as close as I could get my hand to the header) any exhaust leaks, but the crossover pipe, I didn't know it had a gasket in there and it was sitting on top of my tranny :awesome:

I'll install that tomorrow, because I had to leave for work and ran out of time. On a side note, 2 of the header bolts had backed out :eek:

Also. I couldn't remove the header from the engine WITHOUT removing the coolant hose. I'm saving all my money for ASS so I can't be spending more money on coolant right now ;)

[Redog]

OK So I reinstalled the doughnut thingy today. I had to back out the header bolts to do this, but it was no big deal. Get everything back together and drive the car. Awesome fuel trim for about 3 blocks, then the trims starts going lean, and then guess what, misses even worse at WOT!!! :mad2: :banghead:

I was so mad and then I hear the exhaust leak at the headers again. Get home and 2 bolts backed themselves out just a bit :eek:

Ordered the ARP Header bolts from Ben, if this doesn't work, strongly considering just getting rid of the car. Yes That's how pissed off I am

[Mike The Canadian]

I hear you man... headers are such a big pain in the arse...

I've had a lot of pain with them...

[Redog]

If that's the only problem I'm having, I'll be happy

[billytheman1188]

strongly considering just getting rid of the car. Yes That's how pissed off I am

Perma-Ban! :lol:

[Nas Escobar]

Can't fix the size. Built in forum conversion.

I know this is the wrong thread to do this at, but why is it that this forum doesn't have the auto resize code? It would help a lot for those threads with a big ass picture.

And Redog, don't get rid of the Alero.... I bet you it's something really dumb and computer/wiring related.

[Redog]

I really think it's the header leak causing all this.

Like I said, I ordered ARP Header bolts from Ben today, hopfully they come by Tuesday, but if not NBD

[xXManwhoreXx]

Have had arp manifold bolts on one of my old cars. Loved them never had a problem in like 10k miles or so and that was in highschool... at wot always... in a turbo rwd car

[falloutboy]

yes almost sounds like its the exhaust leak.

Hmm why are the bolts backing out? U are using real headers and not the stock exhaust manifold, right?
what kind of material are the made of, and what is done to reduce the effects of expansion?
Did others with this kind of exhaust header have the problem of loosening bolts?

[mfuller]

Did others with this kind of exhaust header have the problem of loosening bolts?
I have Breslin stainless locking header bolts. Never had a problem.

[AleroB888]

Can you send me a current HPT scan of it acting up? It would help if you scanned "misfire current cylinder #X" for each cylinder, and Trans Current Gear," in the Table display data.

[Redog]

I really don't know what's in there now. Could be just regular bolts. They back out just a little, they are not going to fall out.

Greg, I can send that scan, I'll try to send it tomorrow morning when I get home from work. It will be around the 4:45am mark or so. PM Me your email ;)

Ben has been doing a get job in tuning, I'm excited to get that transmission tune he has lined up for me. One good run at the track yielded a 15.15 @ 89 (my speedo said 102 with the stock tires :eek: ) but it felt lagging in that run :awesome:

[WhiteV6]

I have a dirt track guy that is going to try it out as well, but he stays in 2nd the whole time. That could actually be even better for him though, depending on what his trans temps look like. His results will help me with dialing it in for a street car as well. The more I know, the better I can help everyone:)

[Redog]

I have a dirt track guy that is going to try it out as well, but he stays in 2nd the whole time. That could actually be even better for him though, depending on what his trans temps look like. His results will help me with dialing it in for a street car as well. The more I know, the better I can help everyone:)

:awesome: