Premium Gas?

[sleepyalero]

Question is, could i run premium in my car with out a tune? would i see a minor improvement in power? or... does the car need tuned for it?

if no tuning is needed to run it, would a tune give me the full potentional of said gas?

[JLw7123]

Most boosted cars and sports cars run on premium. I ran premium in my alero for a little bit when gas was cheaper. I felt no difference. Maybe mfuller will chime in because on built engines it might help. Sleepy you live in the Midwest have u thought of doing the zero 85 conversation. I am pretty sure you can have different fuel maps on your tuner.

[mfuller]

Without tuning, you will see no difference except for a lighter wallet.
You can tune in a few extra degrees of timing; that coupled with premium may net you a few horses, but nothing that you'll notice.
Premium is not needed until you do a cam, higher compression, and/or forced induction/nitrous. Of course, tuning is a requirement at that point.

[[ion] C2]

Higher octane fuel is not a performance booster, it's a SUPPORTING mod. It's used because you have to use it, not because it does anything on its own. It has a higher resistance to combust.

[JLw7123]

Is 93 the highest octane you can get. Does Canada have higher octanes like 95 or 98.

[[ion] C2]

I get 100 unleaded from certain Speedway stations and 110 leaded from Sunoco.

[RalphP]

The Alero motor, due to federal regs, is supposed to run on 89 octane gasoline.

Now, just as a mind exercise, if GM tuned it for, say, 91 octane, but used the knock sensors to detune to enable running on 89 (the reason why you can run on 87!), then yes, a higher octane gas would yield better gas mileage and performance (because the car wouldn't be running with pulled timing and not quite as rich).

It's also why you should be running 89 octane in your car.

RwP

[sleepyalero]

thanks all, so i can put premium in my car and be okay as of now?

e85 would be cool but with how far a e85 station is (about 30 miles) it would be kinda pointless to fill up then waste about a gallon of gas on the way back.

i know premium fuel is needed for performance cars, like my buddies gtp needs premium cause it has a s/c on it.


and to be clear i got mixed thoughts, premium gas will not give me any power what so ever if switched over to it? my thought is i would get better mileage and have "heard" that it will make the car perform a bit better (performance wise)

[[ion] C2]

thanks all, so i can put premium in my car and be okay as of now?
yeah but there's no point.

and to be clear i got mixed thoughts, premium gas will not give me any power what so ever if switched over to it? my thought is i would get better mileage and have "heard" that it will make the car perform a bit better (performance wise)
you'll get lower mileage and lower peformance, theoretically

[xXManwhoreXx]

The e85 station is just down the road from me sucka!

[sleepyalero]

lower milage and worse performance? how the hell does that work with higher octane fuel? lol

i can understand fuel mileage, but figure you jump up to a better fuel, then it would give you a cleaner faster burn off.


eric must be nice to bad you cant use it

[03glgold]

because the higher octane fuel is harder to burn so it has to be compressed more in some way in order for it to burn fully

[sleepyalero]

Oh okay. Well darn. So 100% no point to swap to the higher octane yet then?

[mfuller]

Higher octane fuel, which is better at resisting pre-ignition, burns more slowly.
So you may get an incomplete burn and see fuel economy fall (albeit marginally).
If you can run 87 octane without knock, that's what you should use.
If you aren't getting pre-ignition/knocking, higher octane fuel is just a waste of money.

[a.graham52]

i ran 89 in my my alero and i noticed the idle quality increased and it did tend to have a bit more throttle response. but its marginal. i agree with mfuller, if you can get no knock out of 89, no point in going higher... unless you tune if for higher.

otherwise just put some higher octane fuel in and let us know what happens!.

[guiguilandry]

In canada, Well in Quebec, regular is 87, plus is 89 and premium is 91....

only a couple specific Petro-Canada gas station offer 94...
at the moment
the 87 is 1,38/liter... 5.22/gal
the 89 is 1,42/liter... 5.37/gal
the 91 is 1,46/liter... 5.52/gal
the 94 is 1.52/liter... 5.75/gal

and one us gallon gives 3.78liter...
do the math, we are getting raped with these prices overhere...

[guiguilandry]

it cost me 65$ to fill my sunfire and 80$ to fill my baja... both needs to run on premium 91...

[sleepyalero]

I might throw it in, but whatever regular is here price wise... It's 3.59$ a gal ATM, premium is always 20c more a gallon. So it's 3.79 a gal right now for premium.

[a.graham52]

regular here is 3.719/gallon.

[JLw7123]

regular here is 3.719/gallon.
Really down here is Gorham I am paying 3.62 a gallon.

[DeeJayy]

Luckys, I'm paying 3.91 a gallon lol

[a.graham52]

Really down here is Gorham I am paying 3.62 a gallon.

yeah over here its jacked up a bit. bangors cheaper then us. you go to bar harbor and it was like 3.75

[TheEdgeofSanity]

In our trucks we always run premium fuel when pulling heavy loads. We have a 22 ft. fiberglass boat and when pulling it with our suburban, there is a big difference in throttle response and torque when we run premium vs. regular gas.

When I had my alero, I would run midgrade because it was the same price as regular at the gas station near my house and I always found I got better fuel economy on the mid grade.

[sleepyalero]

Thanks for the insight guys, I guess it's not worth the extra 20 cents.

[Mike The Canadian]

If I run premium at all my car does better on gas mileage for a tank, sometimes maybe 2. After that it settles down to normal if I keep trying to do this...

So I'll toss in a tank of premium from time to time to screw with it :) lol

[RalphP]

lower milage and worse performance? how the hell does that work with higher octane fuel? lol

i can understand fuel mileage, but figure you jump up to a better fuel, then it would give you a cleaner faster burn off.


eric must be nice to bad you cant use it

Add to that ethanol isn't really a fuel, but an oxidizer.

It takes more E85 to equal the energy output of non-ethanol gasoline.

Now, if you were only running down the track, and didn't mind upsizing the injectors and the rest of the fuel system enough, then it's A Very Good Thing because of the horrendous amounts of advance you can get by with :awesome: On the street, it sucks. :eek:

(As an example, one guy on the TBird forum I'm on switched to E85. Now, I run my Cougar with 19# injectors, and a 140 ... I forget if it's liters or gallons .. per hour pump. HE runs with 80# injectors and a 400 whatever per hour pump. And he's pushing 85% duty cycle. As he shows Camaros and Corvettes his tail lights on the 1/4 mile ... )

RwP

[RalphP]

Luckys, I'm paying 3.91 a gallon lol

Ouch.

For 87 octane, I've passed gas stations running it at 3.319/gallon here in Shreveport LA.

RwP

[AleroB888]

Add to that ethanol isn't really a fuel, but an oxidizer.



That doesn't sound right, how is ethanol not a fuel, and what would it be "oxidizing"? Did you mean used in oxygenated gasoline?

[falloutboy]

Ok, first I didnt wanna join in, but now I kinda feel like I have to.

Over here, we are forced now to run 95 E10. Thanks to environmentalists.
But by the time the change came it later turned out that I save gas by it. Its more costly (right know 1,56€ for a liter) now so I dont save money.

The car runs a bit smoother and I dont need to slam on the throttle so much which in end with the adaptive transmission controls and engine controls results in a better gas mileage.

But there would be more from it, if I could retune it to get better use out of gas. But thats out of reach :(

Btw the La1 and Alero runs fine with E85, although on colder weather cranking can be more of a hassle.

[sleepyalero]

some more good info.


runs fine with e85? idk i heard you need to tune and stuff for e85 for it to be safe

[falloutboy]

The problem with E85 isnt in the engine or combustion. The problem is more with rubber parts and gaskets.
as Ethanol is aggressive and hydroscopic.
eg. E10 has a tank life of 3 days before it starts to begin separating.

The issue with the high ethanol values and cold start cranking is due to the enrichment - which isnt enough to support a smooth cold start, hence multiple cranking.

To get it right, all I said is that the (european) Aleros run right with E85 fuels here. They are miles away from really benefiting from the fuel.

Ur where asking about higher grade fuel, which normally brings us to terms like RON and MON and knocking.
The ECM of the Alero can learn in some degrees what kind of fuel ur using, but more likely the way u drive (again thanks to electronic transmission) which may result in better mileage.
How far this learning and "sensing of fuel" goes, u have to ask the pros that know the programming of the ECU.
All that I can tell u is that, changing from 92RON to 95RON and from E5 to E10 here in Germany netted me with better mileage and a bit smoother operation.
for the records I get around 8L/100km on the Autobahn (cruise control 110kmh) and around 10L/100km for rush hour traffic in city.

as I bought the Alero years ago, I got about 12 in the city (rush hour) and 10 tops on the highway.

[guiguilandry]

Ouch.

For 87 octane, I've passed gas stations running it at 3.319/gallon here in Shreveport LA.

RwP

Damn, last time gas was this price here was 2004-05... !! here it's 5,52/gal for the 87....

[Alvarulanda]

I'm new to the forum people so bare with me. I have a 2001 oldsmobile alero v6 3400. I was using 89 for a while and change to 87 and saw no difference. But I really like the 3400 engine that I have, for some reading I can't find a reason to sell my car, it's a horse it is still going strong. I see that you guys fixed your alero and I was hoping if anyone could help me where should I start by modifying my alero so it can last a very long time. It's a really good car. Thank you guys.

[falloutboy]

lets do the math
1,56€ is 2,04$ right now.
1 gallon has 3.785L
= 7,72$

Now only to find an old thread where I posted gas prices too to see how it changed.

uhh nice graph to compare
http://p4.focus.de/img/gen/V/v/HBVvVmIA_Pxgen_r_467xA.jpg
red: taxes
yellow: contribution margin
blue: gas buying-price

[03glgold]

on the Autobahn (cruise control 110kmh)
you only go 69 mph on the autobahn :blink:
I'm new to the forum people so bare with me. I have a 2001 oldsmobile alero v6 3400. I was using 89 for a while and change to 87 and saw no difference. But I really like the 3400 engine that I have, for some reading I can't find a reason to sell my car, it's a horse it is still going strong. I see that you guys fixed your alero and I was hoping if anyone could help me where should I start by modifying my alero so it can last a very long time. It's a really good car. Thank you guys.

start an introduction thread in this section and we will help you there
http://www.aleromod.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11

[falloutboy]

you only go 69 mph on the autobahn :blink:
yes, as the speed limit is 100 km/h or for short stretches 120km/h
But most of the time i am stuck in traffic anyway and happy if i can move

But thats now going way out of topic.

[Nas Escobar]

thanks all, so i can put premium in my car and be okay as of now?

i know premium fuel is needed for performance cars, like my buddies gtp needs premium cause it has a s/c on it.


and to be clear i got mixed thoughts, premium gas will not give me any power what so ever if switched over to it? my thought is i would get better mileage and have "heard" that it will make the car perform a bit better (performance wise)

You can use any fuel that's higher than 87, so long it's not too rich as that will clog/burn the cat. That's what happens when you use race fuel.

The thing about "better mpg" is more or less depending on the car. I used to have a Jeep that beat MPG estimates because I ran it on 93. This of course was a ZJ jeep, which didn't have so many gadgets and gizmos in it.

In the case of the Alero, you MAY get an extra mile or 2 but nothing you will notice. All you will see is that you're spending more on fuel.

Fuel grade has more to do with compression ratio than anything else. It's like using Dexcool on a japcrap. Yeah, it may benefit said car by having less intervals to change the coolant, but you sometimes end up doing more damage in the long run (Only GM cars are really designed to run Dexcool, it's notorious for eating gaskets, hence why earlier GM cars would have that issue... among other cheap practices)

To answer your question... run it if you want. If you still have fuel in your tank, it will degrade the final rating.... 87 mixed with 93 will yield you somewhere between 89 and 91.... which BTW is how Sunoco gets the rating for 89 and 91. Not sure if other gas stations practice this, but they mix a certain amount of 89 and 93 octane to get the other ratings. But back on topic, run 93 if you want and compare MPG with a normal tank of 87. You may not notice much of a difference, mostly because the engine is still compressing at a stock level.

[sleepyalero]

right on thanks for that.

[MilzyZ34]

You can use any fuel that's higher than 87, so long it's not too rich as that will clog/burn the cat. That's what happens when you use race fuel.

The thing about "better mpg" is more or less depending on the car. I used to have a Jeep that beat MPG estimates because I ran it on 93. This of course was a ZJ jeep, which didn't have so many gadgets and gizmos in it.

In the case of the Alero, you MAY get an extra mile or 2 but nothing you will notice. All you will see is that you're spending more on fuel.

Fuel grade has more to do with compression ratio than anything else. It's like using Dexcool on a japcrap. Yeah, it may benefit said car by having less intervals to change the coolant, but you sometimes end up doing more damage in the long run (Only GM cars are really designed to run Dexcool, it's notorious for eating gaskets, hence why earlier GM cars would have that issue... among other cheap practices)

To answer your question... run it if you want. If you still have fuel in your tank, it will degrade the final rating.... 87 mixed with 93 will yield you somewhere between 89 and 91.... which BTW is how Sunoco gets the rating for 89 and 91. Not sure if other gas stations practice this, but they mix a certain amount of 89 and 93 octane to get the other ratings. But back on topic, run 93 if you want and compare MPG with a normal tank of 87. You may not notice much of a difference, mostly because the engine is still compressing at a stock level.


race gas is leaded, which causes the O2 sensor to fail, which then makes the car run rich. Running race gas does not necessarily make the car run rich, good race gas is also oxygenated, which makes it actually lean out the air fuel ratio a little, so you have to run a richer commanded af to keep it running perfect. I highly recommend anyone who wants to use race gas on a daily driver car, just get unleaded race gas. VP Racing MS109 is really good. I run C16 in my race car because it's 118 octane, but i also don't keep o2 sensors in there for very long. unless you enjoy changing out O2 sensors often, stick to unleaded.

you can run dexcool on other cars, you just have to purge the system of any other type of coolant. When we do a flush here to get rid of the glycol coolant, we flush out the radiator, engine, heater core, and resevoir individually to get every drop of coolant out, then we refill with dexcool.

i think most cars here especially those with performance parts, would see a gain going to mid-grade octane fuels, but you may not see much of a gain going from mid-grade to 93. it all depends how much knock you currently have. Once you've got zero knock, you don't need higher octane. By the way, if you improve gas mileage by only 1mpg, guess what, you just paid for the difference between 87 and mid-grade. Anything more than 1mpg, and you're actually saving money.

[02AleroGLS]

Premium fuel cost here in Sherman,Texas is $3.63 per gallon. It cost a small fortune to fill up.

[kwhauck]

I can't wait to have my boosted motor going and cranking on e85.....

[sleepyalero]

get it done...

[DJx79x]

Smh I live in Southern CT like 20 mins from NY gas is 3.95 for 87 on a good day

[JLw7123]

Gas here is between 3.49-3.55 for 87.

[sleepyalero]

3.75 here now, few days ago it was 3.35

Funny how this thread went from a question to gas prices everywhere. :lol:


Someone should change the thread title now to gas prices hahaha

[kwhauck]

filled up for 2.92 at sams club in Rapid City today......everywhere else is in the 3.05 to 3.15 range.

[sleepyalero]

must be nice.

[xXManwhoreXx]

3.75 at speedway today

[kwhauck]

must be nice.

eh it matches the pay and COL here locally so it all equals out for the most part.

[sleepyalero]

3.75 at speedway today

same

[RalphP]

3.209 at WalMart (Murphy Gas) in Shreveport, LA, but with a WallyWorld credit card, they deduct 15 cents/gallon, yielding 3.059/gallon.

RwP

[natedawg9640]

dunno if it was covered of not... but if your car is meant to run on 87... and you put a higher octane fuel in such as 93... the increased resistance to burn means a less complete burn by the time it cycles and you wind up with a bunch of shit in your exhaust which basically does nothing but decrease the life of your catalytic converter. so basically. if you dont need the high octane due to some forced induction, and you think you are 'giving your car a treat' you're a fool who wastes money.

[sleepyalero]

got it established. but your comment is on point! :)

ive still been putting unleaded in mine.

[Nas Escobar]

all fuel grades are unleaded..... -__________-

[sleepyalero]

smart ass :p

[JLw7123]

Paid 3.23 in new Hampshire.

[Redog]

Wondering if I could get away with 89 in the Redog?

[xXManwhoreXx]

Are you tuned for 91+ ???

[mfuller]

Wondering if I could get away with 89 in the Redog?
Only way to know for sure is to fill up with 89, scan it and see if you get any KR.
If no, you're good. If yes, either drive gently until you can feed 'er premium again, or use a tuner to dial back the timing.