Car Cranks, But Will Not Start

[XanderWiFi]

Common problem I know. I searched it, looked things over, but cannot recall seeing one with a resolution or anything that seems to pertain to what could be my issue. Also similar story in the "gas fume" thread but they could be separate issues thus requiring separate threads.

With the disclosure out of the way, here goes: walk out to my car tonight after work and click the autostart button and watch as the car cranks, but does not start. I get in and continuously crank the engine (thank god I have a good battery) but no dice. I tell my wife she may want to get ready to come pick me up but it finally turns over and I am off.

I am low on gas so I stop and grab some, same problem again, but I do not have to crank as long this time. Sometimes it starts up, but sounds very rough and choked-like not all cylinders are firing.

After starting back up I return home without any problems. It idles and runs wonderful when it fires up. I park it in the garage but gas fumes permeate the entire garage and even can be smelled inside the house.

So after reading other posts I can rule out the following:
-I hear the fuel pump when I turn the key to on, but this is my primary suspect.

-My fuel filter is changed yearly along with all other regular maintenance

-I thought bad wires could be the cause so I put in new spark plugs and wires and the problems persists.

-My high flow catalytic converter has 15k miles on it at most so I doubt it is clogged.

-No security light, no service engine light, no codes to be found thus far.

-Mechanic tested the fuel pressure and said it was fine (don't have numbers though). I have been unable to find fuel leaks and another mechanic with the ability to fully raise it cannot find one either.

-My K&N fuel filter was cleaned 4k miles ago.

-It is winter time. But Texas winter time. Ohio snowbelt weather is so much wetter, colder and harder on an engine. Due to the dry El Paso climate I highly doubt there is any water in the tank.

-The battery cranks wonderfully. The way this persists I can't believe it is holding up so well.

This should summarize the previous posts for easier searching and I would like to hear any other suggestions on what could be the cause. I am ready to take it in and tell them to replace the whole fuel system so I don't blow up...

[falloutboy]

Ever checked how good the spark is?
Maybe on or 2 of your coils are going bad.

My Primera has the same prob right now, but it wont start.

The fuel smell, might just be cause its runnig quite rich, as due to the hard starting issue.

[whiteliquid]

Coils, starter, passlock, remote start bypass messing up.

IF you have a voltmeter, place it on battery and see what the volts are under crank.


If you know anything about remote start bypass then unplug check wiring and factory reset and program it. If you dont let me know what kind it is and ill help you. - Free possible fix.

[clutch1]

Gas fumes as in it's running rich??

Sounds like a leaky injector or bad FPR. When it's hard to start, put some pedal into it, and I'll bet it starts up a little better then.

Anywho, if you can do a fuel pressure check again, see what happens when the car's turned off...
If it drops I'm betting you've got an injector leaking too much gas into a cylinder.

Also pop the vac line off the FPR and see if any gas comes out the vac hole.. seen a few of those and they cause it to run real rich.

Couple places to start.

[zzyzzx]

Are you sure that the ignition system is working properly?

When it does run how does it idle?

How many miles on the car?

Have you replaced the LIM yet (if applicable year)?

[XanderWiFi]

Ever checked how good the spark is?


How would you go about checking the spark? With a hard start like that, and a good fuel pump, will it continuously keep pumping fuel and cause it to be rich with extra fuel after a 20 mile drive? It was not as hard to start tonight but the fumage is still terrible.


If you know anything about remote start bypass then unplug check wiring and factory reset and program it. If you dont let me know what kind it is and ill help you. - Free possible fix.

I have a viper 5701 and it is interesting that you mention that because the wire that runs to the "brain" goes through the engine bay as well. When I did the spark plug change I had found that the a portion of the plastic covering had been melted through but the wire was still intact. Have not had anything out of the norm occur with the security system or the auto start though.

Gas fumes as in it's running rich??

Sounds like a leaky injector or bad FPR. When it's hard to start, put some pedal into it, and I'll bet it starts up a little better then.

Anywho, if you can do a fuel pressure check again, see what happens when the car's turned off...
If it drops I'm betting you've got an injector leaking too much gas into a cylinder.

Also pop the vac line off the FPR and see if any gas comes out the vac hole.. seen a few of those and they cause it to run real rich.

Couple places to start.

When I am cranking it, I have tried giving some pedal but it has no effect so far. How would you diagnose a leaky injector? I have only heard of them becoming blocked, not leaking too much so it is a bit new to me.

The fuel pressure was hooked up at a shop...I don't have the equipment myself : (

Vac line as in the one you would put seafoam into on the 3.4? And some fuel could actually come out the top of that?

Are you sure that the ignition system is working properly?

When it does run how does it idle?

How amny miles on the car?

Have you replaced the LIM yet (if applicable year)?

Runs and idles great. 113,000 miles on the car and no LIM replacement but I had heard they corrected that for the 2004...what would I look for in the ignition system to not be working properly?

[falloutboy]

How would you go about checking the spark?
[quote]
The easiest is to remove one spark plug wire, and holding it over a good ground or big metal part (I conveniently used the sheet metal on top of the radiator) Have someone crank / run the engine u shall see the sparks - try how far away u can go, and look what color and how intense they are.
Mine produces nearly white (slightly blue) spark which can still ionize air for a couple inches.

[QUOTE]With a hard start like that, and a good fuel pump, will it continuously keep pumping fuel and cause it to be rich with extra fuel after a 20 mile drive?
Yes it will, the ECM doesnt recognize if the engine is running and only a weak spark is igniting the mixture.
But if too much fuel gets down the exhaust and combustion is malfunctioning the OBD will cause a SES light.


When I did the spark plug change I had found that the a portion of the plastic covering had been melted through but the wire was still intact. Replace the cover and the wire anyway. Perhaps its producing random awkward signals - thus the hard start.

How would you diagnose a leaky injector?
By watching the fuel pressure, after the car has been shut off.

I have only heard of them becoming blocked, not leaking too much so it is a bit new to me.
It occurs.

Vac line as in the one you would put seafoam into on the 3.4? And some fuel could actually come out the top of that?

Dont know about it.

what would I look for in the ignition system to not be working properly?
See other post.

Coils, wires, boots, plugs, grounds, connections etc.

[whiteliquid]

Id be willing to bet that the wire running into your engine bay is A)Siren + or B) tach signal. Does the wire connect to a purple wire with a white tracer?

If your tach signal is grounding out, then problem solved. Replace wire.

edit-Also didnt read "fuel odor" when post skimming. This adds a whole new dimension lol.

This leads me to just check plugs/wires and go from there.

[XanderWiFi]

Liquid-The damaged wire cover houses a light purple/white wire. The siren connects with a black/red wire. Oddly enough, I didn't even see it until I saw that it was damaged and then I realized how out of place it looked. Maybe I will take it into the installers just to be sure.

I thought spark plugs/wires might be the culprit initially so I replaced them. Same problem occurs, though it does seem worse now which kind of makes me question the quality of my install-though it did fire right up after and still does half of the time.

Fallout-with how bad the gas smell is now I can't help but wish an SES light would come on so I could have a code to trace to a source. I had some gas fumes before, but they were light enough to possibly be just from exhaust alone. They are downright offensive now.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TAY-82600/

These are the spark plug wires I put in. Something technical about them that I am missing that could be creating the problem? I used ACDelco plugs, with some dielectric silicone around the base of the porcelain to ensure a seal to the boot.

[alero_bmxer]

I thought spark plugs/wires might be the culprit initially so I replaced them. Same problem occurs, though it does seem worse now which kind of makes me question the quality of my install-though it did fire right up after and still does half of the time.

does it run rough after it does finally start? could possibly have one plug wire crossed.

[XanderWiFi]

I thought of that but it runs great after starting. I made sure that all wires went to their proper plugs and matched up the wire lengths the best that I could.

Rarely, when it starts it does not fully start and then there is the rough idle (like the engine is choked mentioned above) which seems more akin to a misfire and dies immediately on its own or if I try to give it gas.

[falloutboy]

Three of my coil post where completely rusted - car ran fine, I only got the feeling I had to pedal it more than I used to a few years ago.

After brushing off the rust the car runs a lot better now.

May just pop off one after another when the car is running, just to see / hear / feel if something changes.
While your at it, u can watch the spark - but keep in mind that it hurts like hell if the spark grounds through you.

[XanderWiFi]

I will have to look into that. Googled car coil and it seems like an easy thing to check. When I was replacing the wires the posts all looked good. Didn't see anything alarming.

I did find the source of the fuel fumes. The fuel pressure regulator is leaking terribly and if malfunctioning, could be the source of my poor start ups. Took it to the shop today to have it looked at and fixed as I am working all the way into next week.

[XanderWiFi]

I will have to look into that. Googled car coil and it seems like an easy thing to check. When I was replacing the wires the posts all looked good. Didn't see anything alarming.

I did find the source of the fuel fumes. The fuel pressure regulator is leaking terribly and if malfunctioning, could be the source of my poor start ups. Took it to the shop today to have it looked at and fixed as I am working all the way into next week.

[whiteliquid]

Purple/white is tach. Could be grounding out. Fuel pressure regulator leaking could be culprit too.

Good luck with it

[XanderWiFi]

The fuel pressure regulator was repaired today but the starting issue still persists. They are doing electrical diagnostics but said when they jiggle the key a bit the dash lights and such flicker and I believe he said that the fuel pump may not be getting the signal all the time. The investigation continues.

I have never had the issue they are speaking of though...I installed a gauge overlay but have not had any issues thus far. What electrical connections are suspect for difficult starts?

[zzyzzx]

The problem that you describe with the electrical part of the ignition switch is very common among 1991-1993 Escorts, and I see it all the time over at feoa.net

The typical symptoms include things like inability to start (more like nothing happens) all the way to it won't shutoff. The hard starting is another one if it's symptoms. If it doesn't start, you try again. Presumably the fuel pump circuit is part of the electrical part of the ignition (possibly through a relay) so it makes sense that they are looking there.

Having said that I've never heard of one going bad on an Alero, but you never know and maybe it's just a intermittent connection where it plugs into the ingition. or something like that. If you owned a factoy service manual and a voltmeter it should be easy enough to figure out for yourself.

[XanderWiFi]

They have it, they can play with it, and I will just report back. My knowledge on the electrical is about as low as it gets.

[XanderWiFi]

update: mech says something is disconnected in the ignition or my alarm system is not connecting properly. The latter makes sense...found that somehow the cable going to the "brain" of my alarm had drooped down and the plastic protector melted on the manifold. Who know what else was tugged around down the line. Good news is, if I can get the car started and make it to a bestbuy, they have a lifetime warranty on their installs. I hope that is the problem.

[zzyzzx]

So, if I understand correctly, a crappy install by Best Buy is causing you money at the mechanic to either fix or diagnose their incompetence?

[XanderWiFi]

No. Just got back from best buy and the alarm system is not the issue and they have disabled it until I do resolve the issue so it does not cause any problems. The focus is on the ignition system now, I do not even hear my fuel pump turn on anymore and if it starts it is simply a stroke of luck.

Oh yeah, I have to get the water pump replaced too. I'm leaking coolant everywhere from what looks to be a bad seal.

And just wait! Now my fucking brake lights won't go off!

[zzyzzx]

I'd be checking the brake light switch itself or for a bad ground someplace. I once had a bad brake light switch on my 1985 Escort. The car had something like 115K miles on it at the time and when it went bad the brake lights wouldn't come on, and hitting the brakes wouldn't disengage the cruise control either (that was before cars had a vacuum switch as well).

:eek:

[xXManwhoreXx]

Alarm system may be the issue if if its not on it could be rerouting power.

[XanderWiFi]

Alarm system may be the issue if if its not on it could be rerouting power.

I think I have the alarm system pretty well cleared. We got some snow and single digit temperatures in El Paso last night and I couldn't get it started to get it back into my garage. The brake lights zapped the battery, haynes manual describes a water pump seal bust, and the fuel pump isn't getting the signal to work...It's pump replacement year it sounds like.

I've had the alarm system for a year or more now and have not had any difficulties with it. I am going to have AAA tow it to my mech and spring this field day upon him. Hopefully he can do radiator flushes too. It would be opportune since the water pump is getting replaced.

[zzyzzx]

the fuel pump isn't getting the signal to work...It's pump replacement year it sounds like.

If the fuel pump isn't getting the signal to work, that's not a sign of a bad fuel pump....

[XanderWiFi]

Who knows at this point. Whether a break in the lines or the pump itself, it isn't able to do the job.

[zzyzzx]

Ever figure this one out?

[TheEdgeofSanity]

could the BCM or PCM be fried?

[Greencoupe2.2]

I had the same issue you had but first i had the security light, but I bypassed passlock with a resisitor and even with the light cleared it still wouldnt start (youre remote starter would have bypassed it anyway when remote started). Since the fuel pump wasn't turing on I disconected the fuel pump connector below the rear seat and cleaned all the contacts with some 400 grit sandpaper and some electrical contact spray and It started and I have not had another issue since

[XanderWiFi]

Viper alarm systems do not affect the fuel pump with their type of kill switch. Turns out the relay was getting the job done and the fuse box was not connecting in the engine bay. They had to run a brass wire to get the connection to go through again.

Only thing that sucks now is my service vehicle soon light is on and my light sensor is not working to turn the headlights on when turned on "auto."

[XanderWiFi]

So the issue with the starting was the fuel pump relay having a bad connection in the engine bay fuse box. This connection issue was solved by putting small copper wires alongside the relay to bridge the connection better. Starting issue resolved.

Problem I have no is the ignition and security codes thrown through a SVS light after this was done. So it is back in the shop.

[2004alero]

i had same issue with mine my secrity light never came on didnt use car a whole winter had all my shit tested it was my ignition switch i replaced it got one from junk yard for 8 bucks with key put key in on pos then waited 15 mins and then cranked it and alls been well hpfully you got simple propb try to do the key in on not cranked thenen w8 15 mins then try to crank her over if it works great if not hope you get it worked.

[XanderWiFi]

Thanks for the info. It was the fuse box in the engine compartment.