2.4>3400 crap

[Lucalare]

I wish I had an LD9, it's frustrating trying to do anything to the LA1. Plus DOHC beats pushrod anyday IMO

[xXManwhoreXx]

I wish I had an LD9, it's frustrating trying to do anything to the LA1. Plus DOHC beats pushrod anyday IMO

True story!

[kwhauck]

I wish I had an LD9, it's frustrating trying to do anything to the LA1. Plus DOHC beats pushrod anyday IMO

why? there are tons of option for you, just because you don't have the funds doesn't mean its a frustrating motor option.

[Lucalare]

why? there are tons of option for you, just because you don't have the funds doesn't mean its a frustrating motor option.

Unfortunately I can't do anything with this car that will leave it out of commission for a day or week or anything like that. It's the only car I have and can't really get by without it.

[kwhauck]

Well, don't blame the motor for that. The motor is obviously not the problem if that is what is holding you back.

[Lucalare]

Well, don't blame the motor for that. The motor is obviously not the problem if that is what is holding you back.

But with the LD9 there are more things I could do without taking the motor out (Cams, intake mainfold, headers, etc.) that you almost have to pull an LA1 to do.

[kwhauck]

You can do headers, heads, and intake manifold fairly easy on the 60degree without pulling the motor....

Ion can correct me, but IMO, putting cams in the quad 4 seems like a pain in the ass to me because of the timing chain cover.

[Lucalare]

I wasn't sure about headers, but heads are pointless without a little cam IMO. The intake is something I might do this coming summer but with college and winter coming on soon I don't want to go there just yet. And I'm going to wait for WOT-Tech's headers cause I've heard nothing good about Pacesetter. I'm just hoping my exhaust doesn't rust out too soon cause I can't afford to have someone do a custom one for me right now.

[kwhauck]

I would wait too on the headers, but you will see decent gains with ported heads even without a cam.

Manifolds, TB, and headers would be a great start though!

[Lucalare]

Oh yeah, I forgot the TB. I don't know if I'll ever get as far as heads though because this car needs to stay streetable, and I probably won't take it to the strip, I just like a car to have some zip to it.

[[ion] C2]

Ion can correct me, but IMO, putting cams in the quad 4 seems like a pain in the ass to me because of the timing chain cover.
Yeah it is lol. You're basically down to the block when you get to the cams, the next step is undoing the head bolts...

[billytheman1188]

i understand what hes saying about the 3400 being a PITA.....yea....if you have the funds it isnt a huge deal.....but KW....you know that a lot of people on here dont have the money to dump into the 3400....everything is tougher/more expensive for this motor.

your telling me headers are fairy easy on this!? i had enough trouble with the damn sparkplugs....i cant imagine how the headers would be...... lol

[Lucalare]

i understand what hes saying about the 3400 being a PITA.....yea....if you have the funds it isnt a huge deal.....but KW....you know that a lot of people on here dont have the money to dump into the 3400....everything is tougher/more expensive for this motor.

your telling me headers are fairy easy on this!? i had enough trouble with the damn sparkplugs....i cant imagine how the headers would be...... lol

Agreed on spark plugs! That should not be an hour and a half job, it's just ridiculous.

[Alerojester]

i love my LD9 for that its about a 5 min. job:ninja:

[Redog]

Agreed on spark plugs! That should not be an hour and a half job, it's just ridiculous.

1.5 hours to change the plugs? Are we talking about an Alero or a Venture. :rolleyes2:

30 minutes, taking my time

[Lucalare]

1.5 hours to change the plugs? Are we talking about an Alero or a Venture. :rolleyes2:

30 minutes, taking my time

I had the factory plugs still at 80,000 miles, they were seriously stuck cause they never put any anti-seize on them originally. Plus I have big arms so it was hard to get back there, lol.

[[ion] C2]

Nice, the off-topic stuff from the intake manifold thread was moved into a new thread.

[kwhauck]

yeah sorry about that ion, looks like a quality manifold, you think they would be interested in doing a one-off v6 for my whipple?

[[ion] C2]

No reason not to, need a car to do measurements/fitment on though probably.

[billytheman1188]

C2;558880']Nice, the off-topic stuff from the intake manifold thread was moved into a new thread.

what KW said....sorry bud.....i tend to do that a lot:ninja:


Anyways, ken.....30 min job....good for you. Not for me, took me about 30 min just to do the rear ones...my lower back was KILLING me after leaning over the engine bay....P-I-T-A

Everything is tougher/more expensive on the 3400...... i love the engine, dont like the price for things though. I mean....headers for example....quality ones cost me $900.....how much is it for a header for the 4 bangers? $200? Point proven! :)

[kwhauck]

C2;558912']No reason not to, need a car to do measurements/fitment on though probably.

how about just a block and heads, I can tell them any other measurements they would need.....

It's a little lacking right now.......:lol:

[Shiwnath]

There's nothing wrong with the 3400. If your looking for a quick and easy mod for the 3400 you could always get an aftermarket PCM as well as the other suggestions in this thread. Don't just give up on it because its more expensive than the LD9. If expense is an issue then you should just get an LD9 or leave it stock.

[XanderWiFi]

Had the hptuner hooked up to my 3400 and ion and I found that it already comes built with a turbo modifier option which he said didn't exist for his car when he hooked up. Not that it slows him down any : P but the 3.4 has some kick. I love it.

[radomirthegreat]

The 3400 has plenty of advantages compared to the 2.4.

To start, it has more horsepower. You're complaining about how much the mods cost, but think about how much of that little bit of money here & there you'd have to spend to get an LD9 up to 170 HP at the crank. Subtract that from the price of 3400 headers, and it's not so bad.

Also, the 3400 has splayed valves for intake/exhaust. This lets the intake and exhaust air flow have a clearer path straight at the valves so that flow is increased. This actually gives you more power, and airflow increasing mods like a cam or rockers get you much better results than what you'd have with straight ports. Straight ports like the ones on an LD9, 350, 3800, etc. don't let the air as efficiently flow at the valves and into/out of the combustion chambers.

With a 60º V-design, the 3400 sounds great! The 2.4 sounds like a 4-cylinder engine, which it is, but I don't like the sound. A 60º V6 or a V8 sound fantastic, and you can run them without a resonator and enjoy a nice exhaust note without much rasp.

Downsides are the iron block, so some weight, and that the engine bay appears to be so cramped that those tiny manifolds are used. Otherwise, the 3400 is a solid engine that's generally easy to mod and is more powerful out of the gate.

[kwhauck]

I like the way this guy thinks......lol

[Lucalare]

Are you sure the 3400 has an iron block? I thought I checked once and it was aluminum, but maybe I'm on crack and just don't know it.

[zzyzzx]

The LIM problems and gas mileage of the V6 is more than enough for me to think of the 4 cylinder engine as the better of the two.

[Alerojester]

from what i have read the LD9 has crank bearing problems, BUT that's what i have heard/read. beings to it mine is on it 3rd engine and still under 100k miles

[Lucalare]

The LIM problems and gas mileage of the V6 is more than enough for me to think of the 4 cylinder engine as the better of the two.

I've gotten 32/gal with my LA1

[-Alero-]

the 3400 does has its problems, but out of the box the driveability is much nicer compared to the ld9, due to have over 200 torque.

gas mileage can be 30+ if modded right, i remember getting 34 on the highway.

as far as modding potential goes the L61 has it all, LD9 is 2nd and LA1 is last.

however, i learned alot about a V series 6 cylinder with this engine. its very simple designed and alot can be learned about it, due to this simple design.

all three of them really just require money if you want to go fast, some more than others, but that gives them the personal choice factor.

[Lucalare]

I've kind of gotten away from performance mods because going fast just doesn't appeal to me anymore. I'm currently working on a lot of lighting stuff, then in spring I want to replace my one fender, or get aftermarket fenders, and also get GA mirrors and spoiler. After that I might do an underglow kit, or rims, or maybe both.

[XanderWiFi]

I get 30 mpg with mixed driving conditions with my 3400. MPG is mostly affected by the driver. They have found you can have a forty percent decrease in gas usage if you remove some lead from your foot.

[Ttop191]

you mean increase in gas mileage lol

[whiterider00]

decrease in gas usage ...

that would be an increase in milage.

[Lucalare]

:haha:

[Ttop191]

i swear it said mileage not usage:drunk:

[Shiwnath]

The LIM problems and gas mileage of the V6 is more than enough for me to think of the 4 cylinder engine as the better of the two.

Why would you get a V6 if gas mileage is an issue? Obviously in most cases a 4 cylinder will have a better gas mileage compared to a 6 cylinder. The LA1 has performance over the LD9. You either pick performance or gas mileage.

[widbyj]

I went with both - TwinCam for mileage and S/C for performance. IMO overhead cams and 4 valves beats pushrods and 2 valves any day. Besides the ease of doing basic work on this motor...

[XanderWiFi]

you mean increase in gas mileage lol

No I meant decrease in gas usage which generally equates to an increase in gas mileage.

But White already beat me to it I see lol.

[Shiwnath]

I went with both - TwinCam for mileage and S/C for performance. IMO overhead cams and 4 valves beats pushrods and 2 valves any day. Besides the ease of doing basic work on this motor...

I was talking about a stock LD9 vs a stock LA1. And yeah when you compare a pushrod 3.4 vs a dohc 3.4, the dohc has my vote. The gm 3.4 dohc is better than the LA1 when it comes to performance. I still love my LA1 though.

[radomirthegreat]

I like the way this guy thinks......lol
:coolio:

Also, torque: 155 versus 210 ft-lb. The LD9 has far less torque than the LA1, so you're missing out there as well. My thoughts on the DOHC and 16 valves versus a pushrod engine with 12 valves is that the 4-cylinder needs all that just to keep up. A pushrod 4-banger is just hideous, and yet the V6 pushrods beat the 4-cyl DOHC engines right out of the gate.

By the way, has anyone done an L67 (Series 2 3800) swap into an Alero? With 240 hp and 280 ft-lb of torque with a stock air box, stock supercharger pulley, stock everything, it's king! Plus, it's easy to mod and work on in general, has a huge supply of aftermarket parts, and it's readily available. I'm working on my 99 Bonneville's L36 right now. It has headers, about to get a cam and heads, almost there with a Gen V M90 (Series III 3800's more efficient supercharger), and lots of tuning. I'm expecting about 400 hp at the crank before intercooling. These light Aleros are so much easier to build transmissions for than Bonnevilles. If I keep the Alero around, I may try it. :eek:

[Ttop191]

this has been done, guiguiladry has a L67 s/c'd swap and also a s/c'd LD9

[radomirthegreat]

That's awesome! I'm so happy right now!

[Ttop191]

oooh....and its a 5-speed lol


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2941359

[radomirthegreat]

I had already found him, read about it, and sent him a Cardomain friend request. I love L67s!

[kwhauck]

De repped for that post, L67s are crap. You would be much better off sticking with building the LA1 before swapping in an L67

[zzyzzx]

Why would you get a V6 if gas mileage is an issue? Obviously in most cases a 4 cylinder will have a better gas mileage compared to a 6 cylinder. The LA1 has performance over the LD9. You either pick performance or gas mileage.

Car was given to me.

[radomirthegreat]

No way I'm losing rep over L67s! The L67 is an awesome engine that lasts pretty much forever. As good as the LA1 may seem, it from the factory makes the power of a 4-cylinder with the gas mileage of a V8. Plus, working on it is hideous. The L67 is so straightforward.

I can see where you're coming from liking the LA1 so much, but the L67 was my first engine that I worked on and started building up, and I really like it.

[JLw7123]

ya i should have gotten an ld9 for my second alero but it got the la1 but i have to live with what i bought. I also think the L67 is a lot better.

[kwhauck]

No way I'm losing rep over L67s! The L67 is an awesome engine that lasts pretty much forever. As good as the LA1 may seem, it from the factory makes the power of a 4-cylinder with the gas mileage of a V8. Plus, working on it is hideous. The L67 is so straightforward.

I can see where you're coming from liking the LA1 so much, but the L67 was my first engine that I worked on and started building up, and I really like it.

I don't know any v8 that gets 25mpg, and for the power it makes in its day I would say it was one of the faster cars from the factory v6.

plus you said it yourself.....


Also, the 3400 has splayed valves for intake/exhaust. This lets the intake and exhaust air flow have a clearer path straight at the valves so that flow is increased. This actually gives you more power, and airflow increasing mods like a cam or rockers get you much better results than what you'd have with straight ports. Straight ports like the ones on an LD9, 350, 3800, etc. don't let the air as efficiently flow at the valves and into/out of the combustion chambers.

Otherwise, the 3400 is a solid engine that's generally easy to mod and is more powerful out of the gate.

Not to mention that you throw one of the M62 kits on a stock LA1 and it makes way more power than a stock l67.

[spyhunter]

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2010_Chevrolet_Corvette.shtml (http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/corvette/2006/)

[kwhauck]

very well then.......i don't care......

[spyhunter]

very well then.......i don't care......

don't be a baby.

[radomirthegreat]

Wait, wait, no. The LA1 has the advantage of better flowing cylinder heads. Imagine what this 170 hp V6 as it is now would be like with worse heads, like the 3800 or 350 stockers - 160 hp or even less!

M62 kit for an LA1? Why? The M62 is like four heat guns. Throw on an M90, M112, a Kenne Bell, a turbocharger, or a CSC, and I'll love it.

[Lucalare]

Wait, wait, no. The LA1 has the advantage of better flowing cylinder heads. Imagine what this 170 hp V6 as it is now would be like with worse heads, like the 3800 or 350 stockers - 160 hp or even less!

M62 kit for an LA1? Why? The M62 is like four heat guns. Throw on an M90, M112, a Kenne Bell, a turbocharger, or a CSC, and I'll love it.

Turbo is definitely the best option, you can get a small turbo to spool just as fast as a supercharger, and it's probably cheaper to do too.

[kwhauck]

as far as I know, no turbo makes instand boost like a supercharger does, but i don't want to get into another turbo vs. supercharger arguement, there are so many variables.

Radomir, I'll stick with my whipple over a shitty m90.

[radomirthegreat]

Kw, I'm not really informed about what you've got under your hood. Is there really a Whipple? (I group it with Kenne Bell, but I know they're two different companies.)

I couldn't agree more that we shouldn't debate superchargers versus turbochargers, but one thing I feel like I need to bring up is the absolute need never to use M62 superchargers. The 91-95 L67s used M62 superchargers and made 215 horsepower, which isn't way more power than an L67, in this case a Series II one with 240 hp out of the box.

Also, the splayed valves thing, they're a benefit to people looking to mod their engines to get more power out of each mod than they would doing the same or similar mods on other engines. It's not supposed to indicate the superiority of the engine or its potential to be much more awesome than an engine with straight-across valve setups.

I hope so far that I've clarified not to use M62 superchargers on anything and also to like the LA1 if you have it but not to dismiss the 3800 as an awesome and beautiful engine. Beautiful, yes.

[guiguilandry]

my pics aren't up to date on my cardomain page.... new engine bay is way cleaner and nicer than that now... even if it is still not finished completely

[kwhauck]

Kw, I'm not really informed about what you've got under your hood. Is there really a Whipple? (I group it with Kenne Bell, but I know they're two different companies.)

I couldn't agree more that we shouldn't debate superchargers versus turbochargers, but one thing I feel like I need to bring up is the absolute need never to use M62 superchargers. The 91-95 L67s used M62 superchargers and made 215 horsepower, which isn't way more power than an L67, in this case a Series II one with 240 hp out of the box.

Also, the splayed valves thing, they're a benefit to people looking to mod their engines to get more power out of each mod than they would doing the same or similar mods on other engines. It's not supposed to indicate the superiority of the engine or its potential to be much more awesome than an engine with straight-across valve setups.

I hope so far that I've clarified not to use M62 superchargers on anything and also to like the LA1 if you have it but not to dismiss the 3800 as an awesome and beautiful engine. Beautiful, yes.

91-95 m62s are probably a gen 2 or 3 charger? The rare kits that are available for our car mostly use a gen 4 charger. My setup with minimal mods made 281whp. Others have gone over 300 with minimal head work. However even with the intercooler the charger is getting overspun at 15psi.

Sadly the whipple is not installed. I have been working on a parts pile for 4 years. The pile seems to get bigger, but then so does the list. I really have almost all the parts i need for my built motor, but I am concentrating on finishing the built 5 speed swap, and then I can work on fabrication of the custom intake manifold for the whipple.

And I don't hate l67s, Gtp's were always fun to pick on with my old setup...lol

[Lucalare]

as far as I know, no turbo makes instand boost like a supercharger does, but i don't want to get into another turbo vs. supercharger arguement, there are so many variables.

Radomir, I'll stick with my whipple over a shitty m90.

Sorry for the misconception, I didn't mean instant, I meant fast spool, if you want to do a supercharger more power to ya(pun not intended).