MSD Coils.

[[ion] C2]

If I use two 8224 MSD coils and a wireset, will that enhance my spark power significantly? Do I need the MSD DIS-2 ($$$$) to get the multiple spark discharge or do the coils do that on their own?

I would like a more powerful, and if I can, multiple spark to take care of any spark blowout or possible misfires on me.

http://ion-productions.net/LD9coilswap.PNG

[[ion] C2]

Nevarmind. :)
the MSD coils will give you the more powerful spark you require. just get some really nice spark plug wires & wire the msd coils in really well. you'll be good to go

when i went MSD coils I loved that shit. the msd coils are just higher power coils than OEM, the DIS-2 you really do not need.

[cherrington17]

path of least resistance.

if you get plugs that claim they have "multiple spark points" its a bold faced lie. electricity doesn't move from multiple points (in close distance)

...unless your nikola tesla.

[[ion] C2]

Errr, duh. I tell everyone that who wants to buy the gimmick spark plugs. I'm not talking about multi-tipped spark plugs, I'm talking about MSD ignition, regarding multiple sparks (multiple, as in sequence, one after another).

[guiguilandry]

I say that maybe it could help but only if the coils are not sufficient to provide an accurate spark under high boost... a friend of mine had the msd dis-2 on his 500hp eagle talon and it helped a lot over 25 pounds of boost

[[ion] C2]

They aren't. I had to gap my plugs down to .028 to keep the spark from blowing out. I'm going to hook it up as soon as I get the parts tomorrow/monday.

[spyhunter]

I say that maybe it could help but only if the coils are not sufficient to provide an accurate spark under high boost... a friend of mine had the msd dis-2 on his 500hp eagle talon and it helped a lot over 25 pounds of boost


the stock coils aren't

[Oldsman]

the DIS system will give the multi-spark but not the coils. they will just give you a hotter spark.

[datwonguy]

ikno that the msd modual(dis2) is the base technology for the blaster coils!! if you have the performance coils all the way to spark plugs your GOLDEN, but if you get the interface modual and dis2 you PLATINUM. its the technology in this ya kno

[spyhunter]

ikno that the msd modual(dis2) is the base technology for the blaster coils!! if you have the performance coils all the way to spark plugs your GOLDEN, but if you get the interface modual and dis2 you PLATINUM. its the technology in this ya kno

yeah but you really don't need to get the DIS2 to make the ignition perform for you proper. I would know. I think it's an unnecessary thing, more of a luxury to say "AND I GOT THIS MOD TOO!"

[NoSweat83]

If anyone would know it would be spy.

[spyhunter]

If anyone would know it would be spy.

If anything the DIS2 caused me troubleshooting issues, while the MSD coils caused me nothing but joy and happiness.

[[ion] C2]

and the DIS-2 causes a huge gaping hole in your wallet

[NoSweat83]

Not if you already have one...

[Oldsman]

DIS works beautiful on n/a setup.

[Alerojester]

i think i'll stay stock till the stock coil goes out then MAYBE i might go MSD but i also have a turbo build in mind so might end up with MSD anyways

[[ion] C2]

Installed the MSD coils today. Amazing difference.

idles much smoother
no stumbling whatsoever at 18 psi
no misfire/detonation upon shut off/on quickly (like going to store)
throttle response is far quicker, can burn off the quick fuel dump much easier

Overall, I'm extremely happy, the stronger spark is spectacular. :yahoo:

http://ion-productions.net/msd1.jpg

http://ion-productions.net/msd2.jpg

[heineck]

looks good, i like the mounting location. make sure u put a how to with p/n on Amod uprgades

[alero_bmxer]

looks good, i like the mounting location. make sure u put a how to with p/n on Amod uprgades

yes please i wanna do this soon

[BlackJack]

spy, throw your 2 cents in on this:

http://www.kennebell.net/accessories/boostaspark/boostaspark.htm

and also, what wires/plugs are you guys using?

[[ion] C2]

Duralast lifetime warranty stuff yo, 7mm.

NGK TR6 (4177)

[BlackJack]

right on, just comparing....thanks.

[robalero]

I like the setup, I thought they came with coils and boots how did you switch it to wires?

[[ion] C2]

By cutting the existing coils off the ICM wires and extending them to the MSD coils.

[guiguilandry]

Cool so we need a how to ASAP... or at least a little chart for the pluging of the wires to the new coils and what spark plugs wires did you used ???

[Alerojester]

C2;552607']Duralast lifetime warranty stuff yo, 7mm.

NGK TR6 (4177)

ok we know what size but for what i think is what we are all wondering cause that would probably be a good thing to know cause now you OBVIOUSLY have alot of our attention cause now im trying to con the wife into letting me do it.:dance1:

[NoSweat83]

C2;552607']Duralast lifetime warranty stuff yo, 7mm.

NGK TR6 (4177)

1. Why not MSD wires?
2. Why 7mm and not 8mm?

[[ion] C2]

Because there clearly isn't a need for it if I have perfectly strong spark at 18 psi of aiflow from a GT3076R lol

Also, the wires for a 2.2L LN2 Cavalier are what I used.

I'll probably do a writeup later today with pictures. :)

[NoSweat83]

Sounds good.

[Alerojester]

that's a good thing Ion cause we all love write ups on how to do something

[robalero]

yes please do a write up, its just one of those things I now officially wanna do since it will match the color of my car ( aside from being really functional )

[colonel6632]

any big differences it would make on a 2.2 ecotec with mostly stock. perhaps mostly a hotter spark so maybe better mpg? better idling? anything really at all?

[Oldsnut]

yes please do a write up, its just one of those things I now officially wanna do since it will match the color of my car ( aside from being really functional )
Rob it is good to see that your fitting in the Alero community. just my .02

[robalero]

hey I figured if you could make it here so could I! lol

[spyhunter]

spy, throw your 2 cents in on this:

http://www.kennebell.net/accessories/boostaspark/boostaspark.htm

and also, what wires/plugs are you guys using?

I haven't had to need such a device, so I'm just blinking and staring blankly at it. From the Honda guys to the DSM guys to the Evo guys, nobody I know is actually running external ignition boxes to boost their spark, and neither have I.

For all the power I made, I used just MSD coils, and stock 2.2L spark plug wires from a late 90s Cavalier. The car ran better than new with all the whiny turbo stuff in the mix.

Until you make sure what you have is running top notch no reason to add another box to the mix, there are also solutions where you don't need to add a box such as that either.

[spyhunter]

Cool so we need a how to ASAP... or at least a little chart for the pluging of the wires to the new coils and what spark plugs wires did you used ???

The how to, is the very FIRST post of this thread.

You can get away w/ custom cut to fit V8 or V6 MSD/Accel whatever wires, or you can use 2.2L cavalier wires, or you can use wires from a mitsubishi eclipse. You have options.

[spyhunter]

any big differences it would make on a 2.2 ecotec with mostly stock. perhaps mostly a hotter spark so maybe better mpg? better idling? anything really at all?

The idea of going w/ the MSD coils was brainstormed i believe on jbody.org because the quad (2.4) guys have issues w/ misfires, lost spark, etc, etc due to the ignition coils, poor insulation, etc, etc, etc, and being right on top and in between the engine. The heat around the head and the cam towers really jacked things up real well.

Now w/ this lil mod when done properly, VIOLA! Things turn out smoother, better, nicer, happier.

When I first did this 2 years ago or so... it was amazzzzzzing.

[[ion] C2]

It is amazing, I can't believe I didn't do it sooner.

Engine > LD9 2.4L Twin Cam > Ignition
How-To: Install MSD Coils (https://sites.google.com/site/aleromodupgrades/how-to-install-msd-coils)

[widbyj]

You've convinced me to do this also. I've noticed what seems to be a 'loss of spark' under boost that had me chasing low fuel issues, maybe needlessly. I don't know enough to have an opinion about the multi-spark advantages but I can agree with a stronger spark making more consistent power. Similar to my 73 Olds where the best upgrade ever was to an HEI distributor...

[colonel6632]

The idea of going w/ the MSD coils was brainstormed i believe on jbody.org because the quad (2.4) guys have issues w/ misfires, lost spark, etc, etc due to the ignition coils, poor insulation, etc, etc, etc, and being right on top and in between the engine. The heat around the head and the cam towers really jacked things up real well.

Now w/ this lil mod when done properly, VIOLA! Things turn out smoother, better, nicer, happier.

When I first did this 2 years ago or so... it was amazzzzzzing.

well us 2.2 guys have the same thing, but after looking into it, it's hard to do on the ecotec... soooo... i'll just not do it for my basically stock car. although it does feel bogged down on instant throttle sometimes

[Alerojester]

i am gonna do it on mine when i get the new engine and about to install it cause yeah i plan on building a boosted engine for it

[NoSweat83]

Simple mod from the looks of it and def worth it being boosted. Its on my list. Just need a diagram to wire up with the dis-2.... Any advise?

[robalero]

he has one in the alero wiki area

[[ion] C2]

For the DIS-2 you'll need those 8870 coil interface modules. There's a wiring diagram on MSD's site I believe, and one floating around j-body.

[widbyj]

So without the DIS-2 I don't need to buy the interfaces?

Saving a chunk there makes it even more attractive. Thanks

[Caboose73]

No you need the interface either way

[[ion] C2]

I just said it's not required. Why is my ignition system working without it if they are required?

I don't see MSD 8870 coil interfaces on my car:
https://sites.google.com/site/aleromodupgrades/_/rsrc/1282089123341/how-to-install-msd-coils/7.jpg?height=300&width=400

It simply makes for an easier installation and provides a baseplate for the coils to sit on. The coil interfaces are designed to allow connection to the DIS-2 module.

[Caboose73]

Sorry didnt know you could run the wires from the plug straight to the coil without the interfaces

[spyhunter]

Simple mod from the looks of it and def worth it being boosted. Its on my list. Just need a diagram to wire up with the dis-2.... Any advise?

Remove DIS-2, sell, buy MSD coils.

If you have instructions for both you can easily have it interfaced, but to me, it's not worth it.

[spyhunter]

C2;553150']I just said it's not required. Why is my ignition system working without it if they are required?

I don't see MSD 8870 coil interfaces on my car:
https://sites.google.com/site/aleromodupgrades/_/rsrc/1282089123341/how-to-install-msd-coils/7.jpg?height=300&width=400

It simply makes for an easier installation and provides a baseplate for the coils to sit on. The coil interfaces are designed to allow connection to the DIS-2 module.

BOOM.

[guiguilandry]

Doing this tomorrow and my oil change.....
Thanks ion for this precise how-to.. It motivated me to do it....... and hptuner is ordered... next week ordering a pulley from smoothflow...

[guiguilandry]

Did it just for fun today with used 2002 cavalier wireset and coils from a 3800 n/a that I had, but had to do a bracket that hold the coils next to the P/S pump, because the wires are a little shorter.... and even with that gettho setup I feel a difference and it doesnt look bad at all.... before my car was a little bogging under 2200rpm when starting from a stop... wanting to get MSD Coils and the DIS-2 installed by the end of the next month !!!!!!!

[Cliff8928]

Really, the stock coils aren't that bad at all. They can power plenty of higher powered engines just fine like the 405HP Corvette ZR1 (90-95) and the 300HP Cadillac NorthStar (93-99).

[spyhunter]

Really, the stock coils aren't that bad at all. They can power plenty of higher powered engines just fine like the 405HP Corvette ZR1 (90-95) and the 300HP Cadillac NorthStar (93-99).

the oem coils on quad cars are POS.

Just from what I have experienced.

[[ion] C2]

x2

[Cliff8928]

the oem coils on quad cars are POS.

Just from what I have experienced.

I guess I forgot to specify the stock delco DIS coils, not the IDI (quad) ones.

[spyhunter]

I guess I forgot to specify the stock delco DIS coils, not the IDI (quad) ones.

so you're talking about ignition bits for a different car.

[Cliff8928]

so you're talking about ignition bits for a different car.

I was referring to the post above the original one I made where he was using stock 3800 coils (which are the same as many other engines, including the 3400)

[Redog]

^^ Agreed

[irondiezl3]

can you use these msd coils on the 3400 ?

[Ttop191]

yeah, just use 3 packs instead of 2, it's been discussed already if you had read the whole thread

[irondiezl3]

just put them in. is it normal for my car to take extra long to shift now? instead of shifting at 2500 its at like 4000 now? it makes the car feel slower? does the computer need time to adjust?

[spyhunter]

There shouldn't be anything for the computer to adjust to.

[[ion] C2]

just put them in. is it normal for my car to take extra long to shift now? instead of shifting at 2500 its at like 4000 now? it makes the car feel slower? does the computer need time to adjust?

you left something disconnected

[irondiezl3]

you think something is disconnected? i checked to make sure all the wires were down all the way?

[[ion] C2]

IAT, something. you messed with something and screwed it up. can't really help you without looking around the bay

[Caboose73]

When it does shift does it shift hard? Cause i agree with Ion on the IAT sensor i left it unplugged before and my trans didnt like it at all it was taking forever to shift and when it did shift it would shift real hard.

[irondiezl3]

shifts smooth. idk alls i unplugged was one coil pack at a time and replaced. ill check over it again but i dont see what could be unplugged

[Banks860]

this msd coil setup, will it work on my 2.4L non-s/c non-turbo?

[[ion] C2]

ya