Tuning Gurus: help please

[Redog]

I posted over on HP tuners as well, but I'm still new at this and getting lost pretty easy.

My custom PCM which was tuned by an old member on here from Colorado, is my baseline for this tune. I still have my DHP PCM and my stock PCM.

Fuel: put in trailblazer 28 lb injectors. The orginal program was 21.31 across the board under the MAP screen. I uped that to 27.31 across the board. Redog can lay wheels now upto about 35 MPH on a slick street :D I couldn't find the IFR chart. I calcuated that I need to chage my injector rate (or something liek that) to 78.6% becuase my injectors are 21.4% larger now.

No idea on MAF tuning. Any insight?

Transmission: raised shift points 10% and feel nothing, don't know if I used the correct program. Don't worry I saved the orginal chart I messed with

Also the 1>2 shift point was 6600 RPMs I lowered it many times but it would still shift at 6600 RPMs. A guy on HPtuners.com said I have to change the MPH shift point too. It was at 47 MPH, it's now at 39 and the shift point is at 5750. Car shifts at 6200 RPM's now. It's not redline, but I still want that down to 5900 or 6000.

Fixed all the easy stuff. Fan on and off temp at temps 1 and 2. Idle speed in P/N in gear and with the A/C on and the fans are on for 180 seconds after key off ;) Also bye bye pesky P0440 code (AIR Injection system code)

Any ideas on the programs? Basicly bolt ons on the car. Heads are milled bringin CR to about 9.7:1. P&P manis, Headers, 180* thremo, 28 lb injectors, intake and full exhaust. Looking for a LS1 MAF soon

[AleroB888]

I'm not a guru, but I have my have my 28 lb injectors set at 25, and my fuel trims are now just right for this temperature and altitude. Also using a stock LS1 MAF table.

[Redog]

Where is the stock LS1 MAF table? is that on the HP tuner's web site?

[AleroB888]

Where is the stock LS1 MAF table? is that on the HP tuner's web site?

The one I use was listed as a "1997 Corvette LS1", and one of the GrandAmGT.com guys got it from the HPTuners site. That's been a few years, though. There was a way you could copy and paste it out of a regular forum post, but it was tricky, IIRC.

[BlackJack]

whoa, before you get into LS1 MAF tables, you ARE using an actual LS1 MAF yes? LOL

Ok, so basically the formula for calculating for different size injectors are (original size) / (new size) = percent difference.

Then take the IFR and (original IFR) * (percent difference) = new IFR.

So, if you had 18# injectors and went up to 28# injectors, it would look like this:

18/28 = .643
and then for your IFR,
21.4 * .643 = 13.76
and there you would have your new IFR under the MAP tables.

Now that you have your new starting IFR, I recommend you do a full VE tune before continuing. Start with your PE set to 0 all the way down, disconnect your MAF sensor and get your tune on after you reset and relearn the trims. Scan and make your adjustments. Ensure all your trims are at a slight negative (-) because you don't want an induced lean condition. Once you have your VE dialed in and reprogrammed, then reconnect your MAF, set your PE back to where you like it, and then start your MAF tune.

Now, as for your shift points, during WOT shifts (actually above 99.6% TPS), the computer uses RPM. For less than WOT, it uses MPH.

Hope this helps. Good luck buddy :D

[Redog]

No I don't have a LS1 MAF yet, I wanted to get the other stuff working first.

The stock injectors are 18? I thought they were 22? :eek: Will I be OK setting that at 27.31 on the MAP side?

I've seen the VE, I've seen the PE, but I did not go into them yet because I did not know what they are. What are they? I also have not seen the IFR tables or where I would put in that 13.76 in at. Also is that 13.76 a %? so putting it in I would just highlite the entire chart and mutiply by 1.1376?

How do I get more pressure at the shift solidon (sp) I don't want to go high enough to break my neck, but I want it stiff enough to feel it when I shift and not lose much RPM on a WOT, like at the track. It'd be sweet to keep the shift points at WOT right in the power range (4000 RPM's)

[mfuller]

Although I have DHP and not HPT, I have been tweaking my tune with Ben's help.

I have Trailblazer injectors also, and use a factory-stock FPR.

I sent him my bin file, and my Injector flow rate was way off. Now, DHP uses mSec/Gram for the fuel injector measurement, so it's a bit of a different calculation. But I went from 340.15 mSec/Gram to 300.97 mSec/Gram and my fuel trims are damn-near spot-on (FYI, stock setting was 371 mSec/Gram). And if you are using a stock MAF, you should use the stock MAF table. My MAF and VE tables are factory-stock right now.
That said, 2000+ cars allegedly got 22.5#/hr injectors, and that is measured at 55psi. The Trailblazer injectors are 28#/hr, but that is measured at 62psi, so you have to adjust if you are running a stock FPR @ 55psi.
At 55psi, Trailblazer injectors flow 26.37#/hr.
Good luck!

[BlackJack]

No I don't have a LS1 MAF yet, I wanted to get the other stuff working first.

The stock injectors are 18? I thought they were 22? :eek: Will I be OK setting that at 27.31 on the MAP side?

I've seen the VE, I've seen the PE, but I did not go into them yet because I did not know what they are. What are they? I also have not seen the IFR tables or where I would put in that 13.76 in at. Also is that 13.76 a %? so putting it in I would just highlite the entire chart and mutiply by 1.1376?

How do I get more pressure at the shift solidon (sp) I don't want to go high enough to break my neck, but I want it stiff enough to feel it when I shift and not lose much RPM on a WOT, like at the track. It'd be sweet to keep the shift points at WOT right in the power range (4000 RPM's)

ah jeez....here we go. I'm going to have to start with the disclaimers. I said IF YOU HAD18# injectors. Meaning, as an example. Do not plug any of the numbers I gave you up there. Those are calculations based on a theoretical situation simply to display the METHOD of how to get those numbers. And Matt is right. Fuel pressure comes into play here.

Next, VE and PE.
VE is Volumetric Efficiency by definition is how effectively the engine can move airflow. Now, as it applies to your tables in the tune, these are numerical values that tell it how much fuel to spray based on RPM vs. MAP. These will be your base level fuel numbers, and the computer will use these to make all the other calculations (it will decide to add more or less fuel to this base value on things such as air flow and temperature). The reason you want your VE dialed in is for two reasons. If your MAF ever fails, your fueling will still be "close" to where it should be without calculating for air flow, and less chance of blowing your engine due to excessive lean or rich conditions as a result, and two, your computer has to make less fueling adjustments based on other sensor input (fuel trims will be lower).

Example: Your engine is at say (theoretical numbers here, not actual) 4500RPM and your MAP reads 60kPa and the value for that cell would be around 66%. Your computer will use that as a base, and add a little more or a little less based on your MAF and your O2 readings, along with variances in temp etc.

Last, PE. This is basically an adjustment used for getting the desired A/F ratio when under load. You want to do your VE tune without the use of PE so that it doesn't "add" fuel based on your level of acceleration and load and skew your fuel numbers while you're trying to scan for your base VE tables. After you get your VE set right, you can put your PE numbers back in.

For the rest of the stuff like transmission etc., you're going to have to develop a feel for transmission settings based on your car's setup, such as powerband, gear ratios, tire diameters, etc. I will tell you this though, making wrong adjustments in torque management can end a transmission, so please read up carefully from some of the "published experts".

Here's a link for lots of "how-to" all in one linked post if you're a registered DHP PowrTuner owner and have access to the forum there:

http://www.powrtuner.com/index.php?showtopic=6735

[mfuller]

Another reason to get your VE table in line (in layman's terms).....
At WOT, the computer relies on MAP values (and engine speed) rather than MAF sensor input.
That means, at WOT your computer basically resorts to your VE table and MAP values (and PE adjustments, natch). So if the VE table values are way off, and the computer has to make a bunch of adjustments, you will never run as strong at WOT as you could.

[Cliff8928]

The stock injectors are 18? I thought they were 22?

and....

The 00+ injectors are 21.31# at 55psi


How do I get more pressure at the shift solidon (sp) I don't want to go high enough to break my neck, but I want it stiff enough to feel it when I shift and not lose much RPM on a WOT, like at the track. It'd be sweet to keep the shift points at WOT right in the power range (4000 RPM's)

Lower the values of the Force Motor Current, increase shift pressure, decrease shift time. Those are the 3 settings you have regarding shift quality.

[Redog]

OK That's for all the help, but I want to fix something else, more important, first

I can't change the VIN in my car. The PCM I put in was from a 2001 Alero and I think that is why my P0135 code (O2 heater circut) is comming on. It didn't come on before the PCM swap and now it's on so I want to see if this is the problem BEFORE I buy a new O2 sensor.

I go to "change VIN" and the wrong one pops up and I type in mine and I get "Invalid VIN and OS"

I did a full read, write calibration, and it still won't work. All the error message has is a "close" button. Also the gauge screen doesn't work when the motor's running.

What do I do?

[Cliff8928]

The gauge screen you have to connect and then start scanning (looks like a play button if I remember right).

You can't change the VIN because the OS is incorrect. Also, with a VIN change, you will have to re-license the new VIN.

The OS version on the 2001 PCM most likely is not correct for your 2000 because of the changes from 00 to 01. It knows this and won't let you do it.

[Redog]

So what do I do about the VIN?

Is this why I'm getting a heater circut malfunction on the upstream O2? Or is the O2 ensor actually bad?

[Cliff8928]

To change the VIN to your VIN, you would need to have a PCM with the correct OS on it. So basically that means either getting a different PCM or having that one flashed with a Tech2.

As for the upstream, I doubt they changed the wire locations. The sensor might actually be bad.

[Redog]

OK, Ill look around for the PCM.

Just checking on the O2 sensor. It was just odd that it when out right after I put in the new PCM

[sleepyalero]

my buddy has a LS1 Trans Am and my car has the same MAF as his does, and i have never changed it.

[lvemy3100]

So what do I do about the VIN?

Is this why I'm getting a heater circut malfunction on the upstream O2? Or is the O2 ensor actually bad?

If you pay for shipping to me and back to you I will change the vin to whatever you want ;)

as for the o2 sensor I could not say anything about that for sure.. could be bad o2, bad wiring, bad connector...

[Redog]

I trimed the VE, left the PE alone (put at 0 to get a reading) and changed the IFR to 26.27.

The VE I changed everything 1.2% except for the bottom left corner, which was all at 91 stock. That I cahnged 1.1% One block was at 106, but I put it back to 105. I did not want the MAP to be higher than 105.

I'm going to leave the PE at stock.

I smell the car running rich now. I didn't touch the MAF Delta postive and Delta Negitive where both at 66.71 stock, but the max says 67.7 accroding to the HP tuners.

I'm guessing it's working. The car feels much slower, but it running richer, a lot richer. I'm going to pick up a 1997 Corvette LS1 MAF tomorrow and find that chart that Alero B888 was talking about.

Sound good?

I want to get this fixed first, then I'll worry about the trans program

[Redog]

Is this why I'm getting a heater circut malfunction on the upstream O2? Or is the O2 ensor actually bad?

This went away, hasn't come back :D

[AleroB888]

......... I'm going to pick up a 1997 Corvette LS1 MAF tomorrow and find that chart that Alero B888 was talking about.
...........................


If you hit the "quote" button under the post (as if to reply to the post), then copy the table out from between the quote tags, you can paste it into the HP tuners MAF table. ............worked for me....

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72597&highlight=LS1+MAF+table&page=2

[AleroB888]

2.46094 2.85938 3.28906 3.76563 4.29688 4.89063 5.53906 6.25000 7.02344 7.86719 8.77344 9.72656 10.73438 11.81250 12.97656 14.21875 15.56250 16.99219 18.51563 20.14844 21.89844 23.77344 25.78125 27.89844 30.10156 32.36719 34.71094 37.16406 39.71875 42.38281 45.18750 48.12500 51.19531 54.47656 58.02344 61.77344 65.71094 69.85156 74.10156 78.52344 83.10156 87.79688 92.71094 97.81250 103.15625 108.77344 114.57031 120.57031 126.75781 133.14063 139.70313 146.39063 153.27344 160.25781 167.51563 174.94531 182.64844 190.58594 198.76563 207.19531 215.89063 224.85938 234.10938 243.64063 253.48438 263.62500 274.09375 284.89063 296.03125 307.51563 319.36719 331.59375 344.19531 357.19531 370.60156 384.42969 398.67969 413.36719 428.51563 448.93750 463.38281

[Redog]

If you hit the "quote" button under the post (as if to reply to the post), then copy the table out from between the quote tags, you can paste it into the HP tuners MAF table. ............worked for me....

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72597&highlight=LS1+MAF+table&page=2

Sweet!! thanks! :yahoo:

[Redog]

where do I put that?!?!

car is missing and stalling like crazy now, I haven't put in the ls1 program yet but the ls1 maf is in the car

[WhiteV6]

If you want to send me your file and your latest scan, I can help you out. I have some cfg files that might help too.

[Redog]

OK Ben. I will do that tomorrow afternoon. I have to go to work shortly.

The files I can understand, but the "scan" do you mean those charts?

[WhiteV6]

Yes the scanner config file, so you record what is needed.

[Redog]

OK Ben. I'll do that tomorrow afternoon.

PM on here OK?

Thanks again :D

[XanderWiFi]

This is the first thread I have seen about scanning a 3.4. Ion and I were making adjustments to my 3.4 but he was not completely sure what the transmission pressures should be since he has a 2.4. So we just levelled all the transmission points evenly to have nice, smooth and even gear shifting. Does this sound correct to you guys?

[BlackJack]

not sure what you mean by "leveled all the transmission points".

Shift pressure on a 4t45 should never go above 96psi, and should only hit that number when you're at WOT under heavy load. Shift pressure and shift time (amount of time it takes to transtion from one gear to the next) should be incremental based on torque.

WOT (99.6% TPS and higher) commands shift points by RPM. Anything below is regulated by MPH.

[XanderWiFi]

Next time I go to tune my car is there someone who can walk me through the transmission section by chance? And for a stock 3400 how much would you advance the spark? We were planning to just do it +2

I guess the best way I can explain it is there was a graph with uneven peaks and pressures. If I remember correctly it moved in an ascending ladder like pattern to represent each respective gear shift-except my stock tune is very uneven. The way we tuned it was to level all the "rungs" of the ladder so they were nice and smoothed out and actually looking like a ladder.

However, the software isn't updated enough with hptuners to read my 2004 for whatever reason...so I am awaiting an update. Hopefully ion takes a look at this, maybe he can explain it better?

[BlackJack]

And for a stock 3400 how much would you advance the spark? We were planning to just do it +2

I wouldn't do a spark advance generically across the board in a 2 point increment.

First order of business is to decide on what octane fuel you plan on running, because once you get your timing down the way you want it on the fuel you want, you need to stick with it. I personally like to leave a little margin of error since the fuel has some variances as well.

For starters, I'd bump it up 1 degree at a time across the board and go incrementally. Once you start seeing KR in a particular cell, try to tune out the KR through adding a tiny bit more fuel. If adding more fuel doesn't sort out the KR, then back the timing off a degree in that cell and put the fuel back to where it was when you started. By using this method, move the cells up again, and repeat. Once you have your entire range adjusted the way you want it, start smoothing out the timing curves so there's no erratic jump from one cell to the next that's inconsistent with the other cells around it.

Just make sure you have all the mechanical issues sorted out that can cause false KR readings. Some of which are making sure all your bolt-on's are fastened tightly. I've had a slightly loose nut on an exhaust manifold cause KR before. Check your engine/trans mounts, etc.

Here's a basic guide to tuning timing. Don't use the numbers in the tables, since every engine is different. Just pay attention to the methods.

http://www.turbov6camaro.com/safr.htm


Good luck.

[jabartram]

Blackjack are you still using DHP or have you changed over to HP tuners?

[XanderWiFi]

Something tells me I should probably just find a professional to do this...with the tuner ion and I bought we don't have a wideband so we cannot adjust air/fuel ratios.

I'll check out the link in hopes I can understand better. Makes me feel better I didn't have the ability to make the changes...might have really messed something up. Can I contact you further with any other questions I may have?

[BlackJack]

I'll be temporarily unavailable for about the next month. Once I'm re-established online hit me up.

Blackjack are you still using DHP or have you changed over to HP tuners?
HP Tuners. Ben showed me the light. Much more versatile, and easier to use.

[XanderWiFi]

Is it even worth it to tune a vehicle that only has a CAI, high flow cat and 2.5" exhaust? Can there really be any gains that will outstrip risks?

[mfuller]

Is it even worth it to tune a vehicle that only has a CAI, high flow cat and 2.5" exhaust? Can there really be any gains that will outstrip risks?
Absolutely.
I've been reading Greg Banish's book on Advanced Engine Tuning and even just a CAI makes changes to the pressure wave in the intake tract that you should tune to get optimum benefit.

[Redog]

I still have that P0135 code in my car and for some reason my laptop will not reconigize my HPTuners box

I think it's the ground pack for the O2. going to look at it over the weekend. Right now we have 8 inches of snow on the ground in NE Philly.

Still waiting on my WB A/F gauge. Ordered it back in March '10. Found out it doesn't get released for sale until Janurary '11 :rolleyes2:

[XanderWiFi]

And is it still worthwhile if you do not have the wideband to change air/fuel ratios?

[Redog]

You need the WB so you can tell what the fuel curves are. Without it, your tuning blind and there is a very good chance you'll hurt the engine

[XanderWiFi]

So I need to get Ben's hptuners pro set...

[AleroB888]

I still have that P0135 code in my car ..............

I also started getting that code back when I first got the headers and exhaust system changed out. I never could get rid of it, so I changed the DTC status to "no error reported." I have not had any operational problems that I can say were definitely caused by that, although I would rather have it operate correctly....

[Redog]

That's the next step here too, althought it's not what I want to do