Really bad ticking/ knocking?

[clutch1]

Mike called me today, and his Alero sounded pretty bad on the phone.. like a good ticking/ knocking that increased with RPMs. I can't describe it exactly, since phone sounds aren't very good, but it wasn't a healthy sound. He said the SES light was flashing the other day, too.

He said the LIMG was done about a year ago, as well as plug and wires.

I'm going over to his place after he's out of class, and we're gonna do a little poking around and try to find the problem, but I was hoping maybe you guys might have an idea?

Few ideas I'm gonna check..

-stretched timing chain slapping case
-misfire, triggering knock sensor to flash SES light.. gonna check coils and ICM probs.
-loose rocker or something making some noise
-belt tensioner failing making a slapping noise

Any other things we should check out that come to mind?

[jayson_waltz]

depends really if its a loud tick or a loud knoc. there is a difference. loud knock is what you don't want, that's more probably a internal problem like rods, bearings, crap like that. a tick would be best, then is likely something fixed a lot cheaper, and usually much easier.

[a.graham52]

well a tick could be a sign of no oil pressure. or do they have solid lifters?

[clutch1]

Probs hydraulic.. I don't think anything has solid lifters anymore!

I'll see if it's a tick or a knock later on I guess.

[sound_xtreme]

if it's a tick and not a knock and increases with rpm's i'd say lifters. mine started doing it when my LIMG got really bad and the oil could no longer lubricate properly. check oil would be #1 imo, easiest thing you can do.

[clutch1]

We got into it tonight and got it all figured out... pulled the 1/4 coilpack and, unlike the other 2 coils, it didn't get any worse.. so pulled the plugs and didn't really find any other problems.. so pulled the valve cover.

Found this on cyl 4.. go figure why it was running weird.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/clutch1234/100_2118.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/clutch1234/100_2119.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/clutch1234/100_2120.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/clutch1234/100_2122.jpg

The piece must've dropped down by the cam, because it wasn't by the valve springs.. would that be something that would need to be fished out, or should it be ok in there? Would it have the chance to drop down into the oil pan?

[mbeals]

Wow, that sucks. I've seen rocker arms work themselves free but never fail like that.

if it were my engine, I would fish out the piece, but that's just me

[a.graham52]

hey that would do it!

[arsenal]

^ Yep, I have to find the piece. I won't be able to rest easy if it's just hanging around ready to knip me in the ass later.

Firstly thanks for the help from Clutch. We figured it out in 2 trys!

Now it's time to pick up the peices... dropping the oil pan and crossing my fingures that it made it's way down there.



Anyone know if "about a square inch peice" will have the clearance to make it that far?

[Nate's Alero]

hmm, i dont think so, it could be getting ground up by the cam..... let's HOPE not

[99alerogirl]

holy bajeesus... tell that rod to stay where it belongs!

[a.graham52]

your lucky it was the frotn bank of cylinders too. could have been not soo much fun.

[clutch1]

^ Yep, I have to find the piece. I won't be able to rest easy if it's just hanging around ready to knip me in the ass later.

Firstly thanks for the help from Clutch. We figured it out in 2 trys!

Now it's time to pick up the peices... dropping the oil pan and crossing my fingures that it made it's way down there.



Anyone know if "about a square inch peice" will have the clearance to make it that far?

Word, might as well make it into a real fun project. Hit me up if ya want another guy hangin around the garage for the teardown, lol.

[arsenal]

hmm, i dont think so, it could be getting ground up by the cam..... let's HOPE not

The cam is a precision part for sure!

I'm gonna drop the pan tonight, if it's not there I may do the repairs and hope that there's no issue. Should know immediately.

And if it really is near the cam chances are it's already damaged. The car was drove about 2 miles after the breakage. (putting along was not so bad)

Tomorrow is decision day so if anyone can chime on the missing pieces where abouts i'd greatly apprieciate it.

[Kilroy]

Stick a really strong magnet on your oil pan, or get an oil pan plug with a magnet built in. It will catch any metal particles floating around your oil. It is possible that there is no big piece, but that it just gradually wore the hole, thus creating a bunch of tiny filings.

[clutch1]

Looks like a pretty clean snap on the metal there, there's at least going to be a few chunks it appears.

[arsenal]

Most the people i talk to don't seem to concerned about the missing peice. Also, I think it's smaller than i previously thought.

[mbeals]

Smaller just means easier to get sucked into a gallery.

Are you still going to drop the pan? I would at bare minimum change the oil and cut open the filter to check for shavings.

I do agree though. If it was going to do damage, it probably would have already done it, or at least started, and there should be evidence (shavings) of the damage.

[meadus101]

Smaller just means easier to get sucked into a gallery.

Are you still going to drop the pan? I would at bare minimum change the oil and cut open the filter to check for shavings.

I do agree though. If it was going to do damage, it probably would have already done it, or at least started, and there should be evidence (shavings) of the damage.

THis is an idea. Drain the oil and cut apart the filter, if it's in the filter then no worries ;)

[arsenal]

Definately changing the oil/dropping the pan. Didn't get to it lastnight cause I ran out of propane to heat the garage and lost my motivation.

[clutch1]

There's a pickup screen on the oilpump, right? The piece surely wouldn't clear that, and fingers crossed on no metal shavings for ya dude!

[arsenal]

So I ordered the part from the stealership and it cost $29.xx for just one rocker. I snapped a shot of them side by side for comparison shot.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r246/mwmmikey/100_2123-1.jpg?t=1261089182

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r246/mwmmikey/100_2124.jpg?t=1261089261

...Still fishing for the piece. I don't believe it would go down as far as the pan. There's a small gap where it might have went but i've gotta track down some sort of magnet snake (something flexible) to fish in and hopefully catch it.

[arsenal]

Got it all put back together w/ no big problems.

Didn't drop the pan cause it seemed like a pain after reading the haynes manual, I did get a led snake magnet and didn't find and shaving or chunks above the cam area.

The only part that sucked was making sure the valve gasket was exactly where it needed to be.
When we did the LIMG the Rtv from it was also holding the valve cover gasket on at both ends. I really didn't want to break that seal...so it was like putting the valve cover on over a gasket with 2 spots holding it in place while the middle of it wanted to fall down.;)

While i was getting into things I washed the air filter...CAI. (went thru the wheelwell). The filter is still the original from Chrome Intakes (which is too large imo) and plan on getting a K&N after the spring thaw.

Also I had a problem with a rattle from my rear lowering springs. Earlier I determined it was coming from the bottom 3-4 coils were clapping together while on bumpy roads. After removing and installing them about 5 times all it took was jacking the car up and putting thin peices of rubber between the coils and no rattle.
...So I disassembled them for the last time, got rid of the jimmy rigged shims and got some clear rubber tubing, cut it in half along the axis (long ways) then wrapped the bottom 3 coils, Taped it every 3-4 inches w/ threaded tape (much stronger).
My guess is that the spings are just wore out, I know at least one other person here had them on their ride. All in all i sacraficed about 1/4" of drop for a quite/solid suspension by adding the tube.

All in all the car seems to be running perfectly now.:yahoo: It is definately seems more responsive now that the filter is clean.

[clutch1]

Good news Mike, glad it's all working well!

Where'd ya find the magnet snake? Seems like something I wouldn't mind having in my toolbox, too

[arsenal]

Harbor Frieght - they had snake and telescoping ones. All were less than 10 bucks. Magnets are pretty strong too.