Too much is never enough....boost+juice

[BlackJack]

Ok, so I was having a fun time getting spooled off the line with the rediculous size T70. After adding the 4t65 with a 2.93 gear ratio, it made it a little more sluggish out of the dig.

With the 4t45 (3.05 gears) I was getting spool time at around 2800 to produce boost. Now with the 4t65 it's spooling more around 3500 or so.

Easy fix. Yeah I could put a tighter gear ratio in, but at the expense of the 30+mpg highway I've been getting. so......

Nitrous going in this week. Should be interesting to say the least. Stay tuned (pardon the pun).

[Oldsnut]

It has got to feel good to be playing with the toy again instead of shootin and blowin things up BJ. Nawww you probably enjoyed killing the bad guys.

Let us know what goes on with the NOS.

[AleroB888]

Ok, so I was having a fun time getting spooled off the line with the rediculous size T70. After adding the 4t65 with a 2.93 gear ratio, it made it a little more sluggish out of the dig.

With the 4t45 (3.05 gears) I was getting spool time at around 2800 to produce boost. Now with the 4t65 it's spooling more around 3500 or so.

Easy fix. Yeah I could put a tighter gear ratio in, but at the expense of the 30+mpg highway I've been getting. so......

Nitrous going in this week. Should be interesting to say the least. Stay tuned (pardon the pun).

Finally, some action around here!

Mine's got to be de-modded to do repairs right now, probably going in to a tranny shop here for a while. Good to see you back at it.

[BlackJack]

thanks guys, it's good to be back !

By the way AleroB888 - I'm moving to Fort Riley Kansas shortly, which I think would be closer for us to get together than southern Arizona. Or is it?

[[ion] C2]

Put the money toward a legitimate ball bearing turbo! If you plan on keeping your engine free of compressor wheel pieces and would like to make the turbo spool up faster and be more efficient, a nice ball bearing GT35R will do the trick. :thumb:

Besides, nitrous + boost usually isn't the easiest to tune, and if something goes wrong with your setup, it goes REALLY wrong. Not to mention that stock bottom end probably won't survive that amount of forceful power being shoved into it.

[AleroB888]

thanks guys, it's good to be back !

By the way AleroB888 - I'm moving to Fort Riley Kansas shortly, which I think would be closer for us to get together than southern Arizona. Or is it?

How long will you stay there?? Topeka is one possibility for racing when the track opens.... I think one other Aleromod guy lives there.

[wrestlingandrunning]

Here I am there is heartland park in topeka and KCIR in Kansas City, BlackJack when You come up let me know and I'll show you around to everything I know

[kwhauck]

nitrous makes me giggle........hehe.......

and i'm def up for a kansas track trip.......

[Bad99Olds]

I think my dick just moved.....

[wrestlingandrunning]

Let me know if you guys do, I'm going to try to have a meet when heartland opens up next season.

[kwhauck]

we'll see how far the car is along.......if i'm close you may have to delay until both me and greg (alerob888) are back in running order.....

[wrestlingandrunning]

Well I haven't even started on my 300zx tt, my schedule has me held off from working on the first one and selling it but I will hold it off to see some other aleros

[BlackJack]

Not yet on the GT35R. That's $1200-1500 by itself. I'll risk it for now, since I'm doing a complete forged bottom end at tax time :D

[kwhauck]

i like the way you think........

how about a really big cam too.....like mine.......

[Trickyslick]

Looking forward to seeing this in person...this weekend

[AtomicX]

Finally another alero besides myself jucied =]

[BlackJack]

i like the way you think........

how about a really big cam too.....like mine.......

I don't know what "big cam" you have, but I'm going with a WOT-Tech turbo grind quite a bit on the wild side. I have to get all my mods together before selecting the grind though.

Mod-wise, things will be looking very hellacious by spring time.

[kwhauck]

i posted it on here before, and i can never remember my icl.....

but it is a comp cams billet

230/242 @ .050 duration
280/294 @ .006 duration
.577/.577 lift. 115 LSA

[[ion] C2]

damn .006 duration lol

[BlackJack]

You must be going for some serious RPM's with that LSA. That's going to bump your power band to the upper range quite a bit.

I'm not going for stretched rods on high RPM's, so I'm opting for a little lower on the LSA. So, what are you doing with your springs and/or rockers for that .577 lift?

[kwhauck]

You must be going for some serious RPM's with that LSA. That's going to bump your power band to the upper range quite a bit.

I'm not going for stretched rods on high RPM's, so I'm opting for a little lower on the LSA. So, what are you doing with your springs and/or rockers for that .577 lift?

i have some narrowed scat forged sbc rods in my built motor that should help, as far as the springs, rockers, ben mentioned the 29816 comp springs i believe, which will hold up to a .650 lift, and then the rockers will be stock, although i would love some of the new scorpion ones (in a stock 1.7), but who knows when they will be done

[BlackJack]

right on. Are you really in South Dakota, or is that old?

[Blktrax]

Just curious, other than the labor of love involved, why not go sequential twin turbo, or run a 7th injector to prespool/maintain turbo speed?

[BlackJack]

prespooling is good for road-rally type vehicles, not as popular for drag racing. And on the additional turbo, it's a really nice idea, but I'd like to present the challenge of allowing you to identify a location for it.

That's not shooting down your idea, that's inviting you to show your mettle with a solution that works.

[Bad99Olds]

prespooling is good for road-rally type vehicles, not as popular for drag racing. And on the additional turbo, it's a really nice idea, but I'd like to present the challenge of allowing you to identify a location for it.

That's not shooting down your idea, that's inviting you to show your mettle with a solution that works.

Remote mount? The guys over at STS seem to have maximized the efficienty of remote mount turbo systems with minimal lag

[BlackJack]

Remote mount? The guys over at STS seem to have maximized the efficienty of remote mount turbo systems with minimal lag

Yes, however that avenue has already been attempted. There is no place to fit the charge pipe coming from the rear back up to the engine.

[Bad99Olds]

Yes, however that avenue has already been attempted. There is no place to fit the charge pipe coming from the rear back up to the engine.

Ah, kinda figured that had been thought of, worth a shot none the less.

[kwhauck]

right on. Are you really in South Dakota, or is that old?

yeah i'm here, me and linz moved back after we got laid off from our jobs in colorado........

[BlackJack]

bah, lay-off's suck.

[cherrington17]

Yes, however that avenue has already been attempted. There is no place to fit the charge pipe coming from the rear back up to the engine.

couldn't you bang up some sheetmetal into the cabin? its a ridiculous amount of fab work... but isn't it possible?

[HazMatt24]

couldn't you bang up some sheetmetal into the cabin? its a ridiculous amount of fab work... but isn't it possible?

yeah, who needs a passenger seat, just shoot that shit straight on through

[Bad99Olds]

sequential turbos and Nozzzzzz :)

[natedawg9640]

Yes, however that avenue has already been attempted. There is no place to fit the charge pipe coming from the rear back up to the engine.

or do like that mustang guy did with his twin remote setup, make hollow rocker panels and turn the charge pipe into something attractive.

http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29942&stc=1&d=1218898716

http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29943&stc=1&d=1218898716

http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29947&stc=1&d=1218898848

http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29937&stc=1&d=1218898592


mmmm... sweeeetttttt
http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29930&stc=1&d=1218898383

[Blktrax]

prespooling is good for road-rally type vehicles, not as popular for drag racing. And on the additional turbo, it's a really nice idea, but I'd like to present the challenge of allowing you to identify a location for it.

That's not shooting down your idea, that's inviting you to show your mettle with a solution that works.

Understood, unconventional thinking is what Alero-modding is about.

To the turbo idea, just penciling it out, a small GT2056 off the back 3, obvoiusly cats gone. Inlet comes around from the passenger side, outlet comes up and over like a volvo motor. Off the front Log the GT2854R, exhaust routed in paralell down under the car into a Y collector. Intercooler routed through the existing air/ relocated battery area.
.
http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/press/graphics/twin_turbo_engine.jpg
Basicly something like this but one turbo on the D/S and one on the Rear, but you see the exhaust path I was discribing. the charge pipes going around the engine not nessacarily over it.

[[ion] C2]

or do like that mustang guy did with his twin remote setup, make hollow rocker panels and turn the charge pipe into something attractive.
that's just for uniqueness, it's totally impractical and the horrible flow characteristics of the way its designed make sure it performs far poorer than a standard turbo setup.

[BlackJack]

the volvo diagram doesn't show me anything new as far as design characteristics. What I would like you to do now is to measure the clearance between the engine and firewall, then the dimensions of the tunnel, and I think the light-bulb will come on as to why this would be more difficult than you can imagine. not only clearance as it exists when stationary, but also think about the amount of torque-over the drive train gets during hard acceleration. I think you'll find this is the reason it hasn't been done yet.

Nobody's going to knock you for presenting an idea. That's what this forum is about. However, turbo placement is something we've considered very in depth, and there's very few places that one can be mounted for practical daily driving.

[DOHC_tuner]

I thought this was just a track car?

[Blktrax]

Nobody's going to knock you for presenting an idea. That's what this forum is about. However, turbo placement is something we've considered very in depth, and there's very few places that one can be mounted for practical daily driving.

I completely understand, the final part of the comment though is what throws me off.

Power vs. Reliability on a long term time-line; Those, of course that have had the experience of grenading a few motors tend to shy away from super high increases of power because reliability becomes a total unknown.

I'm not saying in anyway, that hasn't been considered as well. But what is the expected run time between rebuilds at that kind of level and still maintain sustained drivability.


In regards to the clearance issues, relate all back to the daily driving issue. If the Firewall was modified, in such a way it would intrude on the HVAC. Basicly like clearancing a Small Block car to fit a Big Block and bell housing. Minus the A/C all together, there would be enough room for the second turbo to fit in front of the block down low simmilar to the new Subaru Legacy GT.

As you said however, I'm sure this ball has been tossed around a lot. To me at least looking at the engine bay and the locations, it seems if the charge pipes were oval and just round at their connection points going around the motor on either side would be possible.

[Blktrax]

Ok having gone out to look at the car in the cold and rain twice now, and having searched for a reverse waterpump for the last 45 minutes. All I can come to the comclusion is, It'd take a hell of a lot of re-engineering to do it.

[cherrington17]

Ok having gone out to look at the car in the cold and rain twice now, and having searched for a reverse waterpump for the last 45 minutes. All I can come to the comclusion is, It'd take a hell of a lot of re-engineering to do it.

thats commitment for the conversation, right there.

[KenshinZero]

lol Turbo Muffler




http://www.modularpowerhouse.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29930&stc=1&d=1218898383

[kwhauck]

Power vs. Reliability on a long term time-line; Those, of course that have had the experience of grenading a few motors tend to shy away from super high increases of power because reliability becomes a total unknown.

i disagree.......

[BlackJack]

well, let me reinforce Kyle's point here.

I've been running in excess of 10psi regularly for what, 3 years now?

Same engine I don't baby this thing either, I outright hammer the crap out of it all the time.

It's all a matter of whether you know the limits, operate within your limits, and most importantly, tune correctly. With proper tune, and ample fuel supply, I'm pretty certain I can push one of these STOCK blocks past 20psi with only using either copper or MLS headgaskets and using ARP studs.

[[ion] C2]

It's not just the tune, the internal parts just cannot handle that amount of force made by a certain increase in power output... it's not about pressure, it's about power output when it comes to pistons/rods.

I disagree too (along with kwhauck). My head gasket blew from too much boost, but here I am pushing the same amount of pressure. I put in a stronger gasket and ARP head studs this time. Now that it's reinforced, the worries have lifted. If you break something, you simply make it stronger. It's not going to keep one from modding.

[DOHC_tuner]

C2;508563']If you break something, you simply make it stronger. It's not going to keep one from modding.


Exactly what I have been doing;)

[Blktrax]

I aggree with everything that has been said here. Im not trying to patronize anyone or say any one thing is wrong or right. I personaly dont have the complete understanding of what any other person as or has not done.

Mostly thinking how you sneeze and these things blow LIMG's.

Overall I'm just of the opinon that as long as the motor itself is build strong enough, then of course it will hold, then its a matter of engineering the plumbing to get the turbos hooked up, but it appears its going to take a lot of unconvential tactics.

[Caboose73]

you can do the rear mount system http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78090

[kwhauck]

you can, but his results so far have been what i would classify as less than desirable.......

[AleroB888]

you can, but his results so far have been what i would classify as less than desirable.......

He himself considers his a low-medium boost application, and made a lot of expedient compromises to get it done... but the twin scroll and unique controller system he was going for didn't quite materialize, iirc., had trouble sourcing parts.

[BlackJack]

Yeah, let me modify my earlier statement. it "CAN" be done, but not worth it for the results vs. what you have to go through to get any reasonable results. That's WAY too long of a charge pipe to get the instant power I'm after, and I can achieve the results I'm after with the simple addition of the NO2, and/or a higher stall speed converter (which will be added after the cam). Either one being much less financial impact vs. fabricating a whole additional turbo setup.

[kwhauck]

Yeah, let me modify my earlier statement. it "CAN" be done, but not worth it for the results vs. what you have to go through to get any reasonable results. That's WAY too long of a charge pipe to get the instant power I'm after, and I can achieve the results I'm after with the simple addition of the NO2, and/or a higher stall speed converter (which will be added after the cam). Either one being much less financial impact vs. fabricating a whole additional turbo setup.

hey what the hell, you have tickets for my thought train.......:lol:

[BlackJack]

Ok, finally got to the point where I can use it. I seriously need a purge system for it though. I thought it didn't work at first because it completely shut down my engine the first few times I sprayed from a 2800 RPM launch, but after I got it rolling.....found out there were still a few air bubbles in the line.

I want to put this out there. This thing was stupid-fast to begin with, but when I sprayed, the car damned near launched off the ground. All I can say is, well worth it. I burned rubber from a 40mph roll with well-heated BFG GForce T/A drag radials.

[Gr1m]

yea that shit is crazy, how big of a nozzle you running?

[AtomicX]

Ok, finally got to the point where I can use it. I seriously need a purge system for it though. I thought it didn't work at first because it completely shut down my engine the first few times I sprayed from a 2800 RPM launch, but after I got it rolling.....found out there were still a few air bubbles in the line.

I want to put this out there. This thing was stupid-fast to begin with, but when I sprayed, the car damned near launched off the ground. All I can say is, well worth it. I burned rubber from a 40mph roll with well-heated BFG GForce T/A drag radials.

Same thing here man. I've been trying to get a purge valve but I haven't scraped up the money yet.
BTW how much does your local shop charge you for a refil? They charge me 4.75/lb here :(

[Cliff8928]

Ok, finally got to the point where I can use it. I seriously need a purge system for it though. I thought it didn't work at first because it completely shut down my engine the first few times I sprayed from a 2800 RPM launch, but after I got it rolling.....found out there were still a few air bubbles in the line.

Just curious what brand/model of nozzle are you using...

[BlackJack]

BTW how much does your local shop charge you for a refil? They charge me 4.75/lb here :(
$4/lb

Just curious what brand/model of nozzle are you using... NX Shark Nozzle

[Cliff8928]

NX Shark Nozzle

Good on that one. I know there's been tons of issues with the NOS Fogger 2. I know someone who actually had the car lean out from the nitrous pressure pushing the fuel back in the line.

[BlackJack]

Yeah, the Shark Nozzle has independent passages for both the fuel and the NO2, they just merge together in the open primary passage in the nozzle, so neither can affect the other. Good point Cliff. Actually, this is my first experience with NO2 on an EFI configuration. The last setup I had was a direct port NO2 injection system on a '70 Superbee, 440/6pack. Man, have you ever seen a tank get sideways from a 50mph roll? LOL


Sorry I missed this one earlier Gr1m:
yea that shit is crazy, how big of a nozzle you running?

It's not the size of the nozzle, it's the size of the jets :)

I'm actually not running that big of jets, it's the NO2 stacked with the turbo that gave it that rediculous amount of power. From a 40mph cruise roll (no boost), I hammered it, which kicked down the trans, pumped the RPM's, and threw me instantly into 10psi (street boost) and I then sprayed giving it that extra kick in the ass. Results = smoked the freaking meat off the rims.

[Bad99Olds]

God that is so awesome.....

[AtomicX]

Yeah, the Shark Nozzle has independent passages for both the fuel and the NO2, they just merge together in the open primary passage in the nozzle, so neither can affect the other. Good point Cliff. Actually, this is my first experience with NO2 on an EFI configuration. The last setup I had was a direct port NO2 injection system on a '70 Superbee, 440/6pack. Man, have you ever seen a tank get sideways from a 50mph roll? LOL


Sorry I missed this one earlier Gr1m:


It's not the size of the nozzle, it's the size of the jets :)

I'm actually not running that big of jets, it's the NO2 stacked with the turbo that gave it that rediculous amount of power. From a 40mph cruise roll (no boost), I hammered it, which kicked down the trans, pumped the RPM's, and threw me instantly into 10psi (street boost) and I then sprayed giving it that extra kick in the ass. Results = smoked the freaking meat off the rims.

Do you use a blowdown tube?

[[ion] C2]

NO2
*N2O

NO2 is a red-brown toxic gas. :whistle:

[alero_bmxer]

^^^ why yes i do know what its like to get a tank sideways lol. accept at 65 roll. its my uncles 69 with a 500 stroker and a fogger with a 175 shot. he went for the stock sleeper look. runs a 9.90 in the quarter :coolio:

[BlackJack]

Do you use a blowdown tube? buying/installing one later. It's required for the track. I don't keep the system connected when I'm not using it (bottle removed).

C2;510145']*N2O

NO2 is a red-brown toxic gas. :whistle:

DAMN, that shit works better than Nitrous. LOL

Good thang I got you smarterer peepol to keep me ejikated.

[cherrington17]

C2;510145']*N2O

NO2 is a red-brown toxic gas. :whistle:

...and is painful to breathe... trust me.

[BlackJack]

...and is painful to breathe... trust me. Street-grade N20 is painful to breathe too...since they put sulfur dioxide in it as an additive so you can smell when you have a leak, and so irresponsible people don't try to huff it.

[Nate's Alero]

Yeah, the Shark Nozzle has independent passages for both the fuel and the NO2, they just merge together in the open primary passage in the nozzle, so neither can affect the other. Good point Cliff. Actually, this is my first experience with NO2 on an EFI configuration. The last setup I had was a direct port NO2 injection system on a '70 Superbee, 440/6pack. Man, have you ever seen a tank get sideways from a 50mph roll? LOL


Sorry I missed this one earlier Gr1m:


It's not the size of the nozzle, it's the size of the jets :)

I'm actually not running that big of jets, it's the NO2 stacked with the turbo that gave it that rediculous amount of power. From a 40mph cruise roll (no boost), I hammered it, which kicked down the trans, pumped the RPM's, and threw me instantly into 10psi (street boost) and I then sprayed giving it that extra kick in the ass. Results = smoked the freaking meat off the rims.
MOVIE MOVIE! MOVIE!

[BlackJack]

Oh, no....there'll be no movie yet. The movie will come in spring when I'm done with getting it track ready. There's a few more surprises coming.

[Bad99Olds]

uh oh.... lol

[BlackJack]

uh oh.... lol

heh, that's an understatement :p

[cherrington17]

...please... oh PLEASE let it be a remote control, trunk mounted mini-gun!

[BlackJack]

oh, but that WOULD be the ultimate mod.....hmmm.......no more pesky tailgaters

[Bad99Olds]

oh, but that WOULD be the ultimate mod.....hmmm.......no more pesky tailgaters


Two stage rocket booster...win

[BlackJack]

rocket boosters? Nah, that will just slow me down when I get done with this setup. "Done" now there's a mis-used word. I'm finding out there's no such thing as done.

[Bad99Olds]

rocket boosters? Nah, that will just slow me down when I get done with this setup. "Done" now there's a mis-used word. I'm finding out there's no such thing as done.

yea very few things in life are ever done

[cherrington17]

oh, but that WOULD be the ultimate mod.....hmmm.......no more pesky tailgaters

"hahaha... your trunk is rattling..."

"... thats not subs.. thats the prespooling of the minigun..."

"the...the...wwwwhhaaaa??!?!?"

[HazMatt24]

it could compliment this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo0IAWR4PMY

or this one, it's better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnU7WFyZS3M

[BlackJack]

yeah, I gotta admit, those are pretty awesome mods. I was thinking more along the lines of auto-tracking, etc. LOL