S&S headers vs. TOG headers: a photo essay (VERY picture heavy)

[mfuller]

Everyone:

As I have suffered through a motor build for the past 6 months, I figured I should share one of the biggest surprises that I've come across.
I had a huge problem with my TOG headers leaking once the new motor was installed. Not that the fit/alignment was evr very good anyway, but by this point they had been removed/reinstalled so many times that they just wouldn't seal. I am convinced this has been the source of my headaches.....so I wanted to share my findings, since I received a brand-new set of (raw-they will get coated soon) S&S headers today, and pulled off my old TOGs this evening. Check this out:

Here's a shot of a S&S primary. Like the D-shape to match the exhaust port on the cylinder head?
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1371/4201/3427100095_large.jpg

A better shot without the flash:
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1371/4201/3427100096_large.jpg

Here's the stock exhaust gasket (okay, a cut-up one) held up to the S&S primary. Size matches perfectly.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1371/4201/3427100097_large.jpg

And here's the same gasket on the (round) TOG primary. No, that's not a shadow....the primary is much smaller than the gasket!
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1371/4201/3427100101_large.jpg

The front header is actually pretty close between the two brands - primary lengths are only about an inch or so longer on the S&S, and longer is better. The S&S primaries range from about 13.5" at their shortest (cylinder 6) to 21.75" at their longest (cylinder 2). Collector length is longer on S&S also at roughly 4"; TOG is only 2.5" long.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1371/4201/3427100102_large.jpg

The difference in the rear header is more obvious. The TOG rear header is on top of the S&S rear header here:
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1371/4201/3427100103_large.jpg

Here's some measurements I took. I measured the primary for cylinder #3 only, which is the shortest (cylinders 1 and 5 are about 2-3" longer on both):
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1371/4201/3427100105_large.jpg

The TOG primary is only 8" long (with a puny 2.5" collector length)....
While the S&S is:
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1371/4201/3427100106_large.jpg

12.5" long with a 3.5" collector. BIG difference!

For the downpipe/flex connection, I really prefer the simple 3-bolt flange of the S&S (no slop in the bolt holes; they line right up) over TOG's more involved 2-bolt flange (which can be more difficult to line up straight - the holes in the flanges are oval, which allow for some adjustment):
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1371/4201/3427100108_large.jpg


http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1371/4201/3427100112_large.jpg

Last but not least, we come to the outlet of the flex section. S&S is a smidge over 2.5".....
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1371/4201/3427100109_large.jpg

TOG is only about 2.25".
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1371/4201/3427100111_large.jpg

Any questions?

[Cliff8928]

Wow... I guess it's good that the company which makes the better set is still in business!

[AleroB888]

Any questions?


Yeah, how much will the sell price be lowered for the now admittedly crappy TOG's ? :lol:

[jrim]

This is an excellent compilation of information, thanks.

But I have to question S&S - I've heard of people needing 3-4 months to get their headers from S&S. Is it really worth the wait? Spending $700 and having to wait 3-4 months to even get your product is a bit ridiculous IMO.

[mfuller]

Yeah, how much will the sell price be lowered for the now admittedly crappy TOG's ? :lol:
I plan on putting mine up for sale for the bargain price of $200.

[Nate's Alero]

I plan on putting mine up for sale for the bargain price of $200.

do they seal at all? or do they need mods? like, i have no headers, getting an exhaust, and i would like these if AleroB888 does not want them? i would like to buy them :)

[AleroB888]

I plan on putting mine up for sale for the bargain price of $200.

How much for shipping?

[Nate's Alero]

How much for shipping?

i thought you had some :lol: its all good, is that what happens to JET HOT coating after a few years?

[hok666]

Nice.. Im going with S&S

[Gr1m]

I plan on putting mine up for sale for the bargain price of $200.

ill throw ya 250-300 shipped to 11710, i asked about em a few months ago, just send me a PM

[Rexter9x]

Wow, I was gonna try and get the togs, but it looks like theres a waiting list already lol. Well, if the above loose interest, I'd be offering 3-350 shipped to Ontario, assuming they can still seal

[rowdygls]

You know he's not the only one with TOG's. The S&S's may help my boost so I may be getting rid of the TOG's.

[Redog]

i thought you had some :lol: its all good, is that what happens to JET HOT coating after a few years?

JET HOT sucks.

Their coatings are only good to the 1300 to 1500 degree range. My exhaust gets to 1600 on the 1/4 mile on a really hot day, and that's at the cat :eek: It's safe to say that the headers get between 200 and 400* hotter than that.

Matt are you still going with the powdercoating shop I suggested? If so, they only order that shiny silver coat per job because it only has a shelf life of 3 months

[kwhauck]

JET HOT sucks.

Their coatings are only good to the 1300 to 1500 degree range. My exhaust gets to 1600 on the 1/4 mile on a really hot day, and that's at the cat :eek: It's safe to say that the headers get between 200 and 400* hotter than that.

Matt are you still going with the powdercoating shop I suggested? If so, they only order that shiny silver coat per job because it only has a shelf life of 3 months

that's why when I get my custom headers coated they will be with the flat black or grey jet-hot 2000 which is good up to 2450 degrees F.

[lvemy3100]

AFIK there are only 2 Jet hot coatings that can withstand a max of only 1300*... Sterling and Sparkle. The rest are 1600*+ as shown below

Sterling (Silver Finish/1,300F)
Extreme Sterling (1700F)
Sparkle (1300F)
Corvette (dark) Gray (1600F)
Cast Iron Gray* (1600F)
Light Gray* (1600F)
Black (1600F)
Forest Green (1600F)
Red* (1600F)
Ford Blue* (1600F)
Light Blue* (1600F)

[mfuller]

Matt are you still going with the powdercoating shop I suggested? If so, they only order that shiny silver coat per job because it only has a shelf life of 3 months

Funny you should mention that. I just called them today because I had both the narrowband and wideband O2 bungs welded into the downpipe today, and they are shipping this afternoon. I opted for the Tungsten Grey.....worked out better since it's still good to 2000* and they have several sets of V8 headers to do in the same color.

[mfuller]

This is an excellent compilation of information, thanks.

But I have to question S&S - I've heard of people needing 3-4 months to get their headers from S&S. Is it really worth the wait? Spending $700 and having to wait 3-4 months to even get your product is a bit ridiculous IMO.

It took about 5 weeks to get mine......normally it wouldn't be so long since my order came at the end of a ruin right before S&S switched flange suppliers. I expect to get my headers back from the coater in 2 weeks (NOT Jet-Hot).

[jayson_waltz]

wow s&s is definately the better header. good write up

[xXManwhoreXx]

forget jet hot, get header tape!

[Valley olds]

xXMahanXcorEXx: forget jet hot, get header tape!

Ive heard header tape rots headers. Dont know how true this is, but in catalogs Ive seen header tape voids most header warranties. Stainless steel headers shoud be safe, regular steel ones, not so much.

[Redog]

Funny you should mention that. I just called them today because I had both the narrowband and wideband O2 bungs welded into the downpipe today, and they are shipping this afternoon. I opted for the Tungsten Grey.....worked out better since it's still good to 2000* and they have several sets of V8 headers to do in the same color.

I hope you told them who you where and who you know ;)

[Gr1m]

payment sent for TOGs