Rocker Tuning?

[Nate's Alero]

well, i did my LIMG change, and i checked everything out (yes gr1m, i checked the gas) and i have no compression on like five cylinders... when i put the front rockers on, i see them depress slightly, and i think two depress all the way down, is there a way to tune them to no depress so i dont lose compression?

[alerored04]

You cannot have them all shut at the same time. The cam is holding them open. I may be misunderstanding your question though. Elaborate for me a bit.

[Nate's Alero]

You cannot have them all shut at the same time. The cam is holding them open. I may be misunderstanding your question though. Elaborate for me a bit.

k, when i tighten ALL of them they ALL are open slightly, and i think the second one is all the way down, and the last one is all the way down..... i dont get this

[WhiteV6]

The pushrod is pushing them open because the cam is not on the base of the lobe. This is the cams job. If you don't have compression, you may have mixed up the pushrod order on 5 cylinders. If the cam is broken, it wont open the valves and you have big problems.

[buickboy71]

Did you get the pushrods out of order?

[Nate's Alero]

The pushrod is pushing them open because the cam is not on the base of the lobe. This is the cams job. If you don't have compression, you may have mixed up the pushrod order on 5 cylinders. If the cam is broken, it wont open the valves and you have big problems.

Did you get the pushrods out of order?

Pushrods, are in order on the front, but idk about the back, someone told me it was a non interference motor, so the pistons would not hit the valves, it just seems like, there is one REALLY depressed valve, and the rest are held open a tiny bit, he told me to get the car at TDC, and the rest would be an the haynes manual, like, how to make the rockers sit properly on the valves, its a 99 if that helpes

[Nate's Alero]

Bump, i need this people! help me out!

[rustyballs_69]

Nate you should probably pull all the push rods out and measure them, figure out which ones are intake and which ones are exhaust. Intake is 5.746" Exhaust is 6.074". I would also check for collapsed lifters.

[Gr1m]

if one of the rockers depressed ALOT then you probably need one of the longer pushrods there so it doesnt depress as much, i told you to keep the rods in order!

[Nate's Alero]

if one of the rockers depressed ALOT then you probably need one of the longer pushrods there so it doesnt depress as much, i told you to keep the rods in order!

i kept them in order!!!!! jeez, how do i go about chaging out all my lifters.... this might be my answer.... (even though the freaking car ran!!)

anyone have the pushrod order for the side closest to the firewall and the side closest to the front of the car? i thought it went

E I E I I E for the side closent to the firewall and

E I I E I E for the side closest to the front of the car? wouldnt a 'Collapsed" lifter make the valve not rise at all? my problem is that it is making my valves stay open slightly(idk about the back, i hate the frigging coil pack lower bolts.....)

[alerored04]

I hope you dont have them out of order cause this engine is definitely an interference motor. I have pics of bent valves and indented pistons from by broken timing set to prove it.

[Nate's Alero]

I hope you dont have them out of order cause this engine is definitely an interference motor. I have pics of bent valves and indented pistons from by broken timing set to prove it.

can you confirm the pushrod order please?

[WhiteV6]

Pushrod order is correct.

[Nate's Alero]

Pushrod order is correct.

thanx, so now what?

[WhiteV6]

have someone crank it over while you watch the rockers on the front bank. To have 5 cylinders with no compression is difficult to achieve without breaking the cam.

[fielder87]

ok so i did my LIMG,and never put in TDC,although i read somehting about doing it b/f...well i have had no problems with it since, and my baby has her power back..also if your pushrods were not in correct order(mixed exaust n intake), you would probley need valve job and you would hear it..which mabey your TDC is screwing you up with compression?have you put piston 5 at TDC,and tried torquing it down again?

[rustyballs_69]

Here is some more info from Nate: I just completed a LIMG (lower intake manifold gasket) chage on my 99 olds alero coupe, the car ran nicely before the change, now the car sounds like it has no compression on 5 cylinders, it never started, just hucked and farted like it wanted to, and keeps making loud pops out of the intake, followed by exhaust smoke, and normal exhaust smell, the pushrods are in the correct orders, and the gasket is in correctly, now, when i put the rockers on, they depress the valves slightly, and 2 depress all the way down, why is this? (this is on one side btw) but the opposite side does the same thing, two depress all the way down, and the rest depress slightly, why is this and what do i do to correct it?

Probably should have said all of this over here Nate.

[Nate's Alero]

Here is some more info from Nate: I just completed a LIMG (lower intake manifold gasket) chage on my 99 olds alero coupe, the car ran nicely before the change, now the car sounds like it has no compression on 5 cylinders, it never started, just hucked and farted like it wanted to, and keeps making loud pops out of the intake, followed by exhaust smoke, and normal exhaust smell, the pushrods are in the correct orders, and the gasket is in correctly, now, when i put the rockers on, they depress the valves slightly, and 2 depress all the way down, why is this? (this is on one side btw) but the opposite side does the same thing, two depress all the way down, and the rest depress slightly, why is this and what do i do to correct it?

Probably should have said all of this over here Nate.

Lol, yahoo answers?

well there is the info! help PLEEEEZE!! (the crank i think is good btw, my friend said the rocks were moving, this was through the oil filler hole btw)

[Nate's Alero]

bump for still needing the answers

[WhiteV6]

"and 2 depress all the way down, why is this? (this is on one side btw) but the opposite side does the same thing, two depress all the way down"

Ok, now we got something. You can't have both banks opening 2 valves all the way. You mixed up the pushrods and put shorts where longs go and longs where shorts go.

[Nate's Alero]

"and 2 depress all the way down, why is this? (this is on one side btw) but the opposite side does the same thing, two depress all the way down"

Ok, now we got something. You can't have both banks opening 2 valves all the way. You mixed up the pushrods and put shorts where longs go and longs where shorts go.

huh, i just dont get it, is there an IM program or SN i can conact you at, ill give more info there

[Gr1m]

jeez you still havent worked this out yet lol

[Nate's Alero]

jeez you still havent worked this out yet lol

havent had much time, work and school both suck

[alerored04]

I wish I could help more but Ben is here, he will get you sorted out. Good luck!

[Nate's Alero]

I wish I could help more but Ben is here, he will get you sorted out. Good luck!

been talking to ben for a while now
this should get all sorted out son enough

[rustyballs_69]

Did you get things figured out Nate?

[Nate's Alero]

nope, its still screwed.... i have more information, if i loosen the rocker arms, to when they are just ALMOST tight, like

you know, before they get tight and you torque them down, i gain compression back on that cylinder, but i dont want to run the car with loose rockers, i know the pushrod order is correct, but i have another question,

i have flipped the pushrods over, now do the ends of the pushrods differ in size? like the end that goes onto the lifter, say, is it bigger than the end of the pushrod that goes into the rocker arm? because no matter how tight or not tight i have the rocker arm, if i tighten it down, even a little, it opens the valve.....

[Nate's Alero]

bump, because if this is not solved soon, the alero is going bye bye

[Gr1m]

the ends of the pushrods do not matter, personally i think there are 3 main probabilities of this problem:
1. broken cam
2. mixed up pushrod order
3. over torqued rocker arm (you might have to get your torque wrench re-calibrated and you think that you are tightening it to the correct spec when really your wrench is not calibrated properly and could be clicking when the rocker arms are way tighter then they are supposed to be.)
when i didnt my rocker arms i made them snug i didnt even go by the torque specs.

[-Alero-]

yeah cause 14 pounds at 30* really isnt tight at all

[01GrandAm]

Here is some more info from Nate: I just completed a LIMG (lower intake manifold gasket) chage on my 99 olds alero coupe, the car ran nicely before the change, now the car sounds like it has no compression on 5 cylinders, it never started, just hucked and farted like it wanted to, and keeps making loud pops out of the intake, followed by exhaust smoke, and normal exhaust smell, the pushrods are in the correct orders, and the gasket is in correctly, now, when i put the rockers on, they depress the valves slightly, and 2 depress all the way down, why is this? (this is on one side btw) but the opposite side does the same thing, two depress all the way down, and the rest depress slightly, why is this and what do i do to correct it?

Probably should have said all of this over here Nate.

Sounds to me like someone has the plug wires out of order......

[Nate's Alero]

let me clarify, cam is NOT broken, watched all rockers move....


now possibility of lifters being bad? what is happening is that the valves are always open, i tried flipping the rods, and my order's are correct, because the intake rods dont even touch the rockers on the exhaust valve's,

so the hyraulic part of the lifter being bad, its just, every lifter being bad??

what im seeing is every valve is open a little bit, now, if i loosen the rockers, to where they are floppy, but still cant be moved around and sideways, and then crank the engine over, i have compression back on every cylinder, so, that explains that every valve is open....

BUMP FOR HELP

[Gr1m]

did u read my last post about getting your torque wrench re-calibrated? it is a precision tool and if u drop it or dont take care of it you will throw the measurement device in it off and it will not be properly tightening the bolts to what you think it is

[-Alero-]

sounds like you are missing some sort of spacer or bushing i wanna say, do you have your valve retainers in!?

[WhiteV6]

Ok, i have the answer. I put a stock spring on a head and put some used lifters in. Luck would have it, these lifters are bad, just like yours. The plunger doesn't move and it causes the spring to compress instead. Hydraulic lifter acting like a solid basically.

So you need new lifters, or to tear yours apart and clean them up.

[Nate's Alero]

Ok, i have the answer. I put a stock spring on a head and put some used lifters in. Luck would have it, these lifters are bad, just like yours. The plunger doesn't move and it causes the spring to compress instead. Hydraulic lifter acting like a solid basically.

So you need new lifters, or to tear yours apart and clean them up.

alrighty then, but the possibility of them ALL being bad???

[Nate's Alero]

going to clean my rockers, lifters and pushrods, reassembile, and hope to the lord she starts

[WhiteV6]

I tore apart a bad lifter to show Nate how they work. First pic has all the pieces in order of how they come out. Clip on top holds the cup, followed by a small shim piece and then the inside liner. The spring goes under this.

Second pic shows the nice oil and coolant mix that wasn't working out so well for bleeding off.

[Nate's Alero]

eew......

[rustyballs_69]

Nice shots Ben. That lifter looks pretty gummed up.

[Nate's Alero]

Nice shots Ben. That lifter looks pretty gummed up.

all mine are, going out now to complete this job, will get pics

[xXManwhoreXx]

manually turn it with a ratchet and watch what it does


EDIT: Sorry only read first post

[Nate's Alero]

manually turn it with a ratchet and watch what it does


EDIT: Sorry only read first post

yeah, i was like, the car has been running a good three weeks

[xXManwhoreXx]

yeah, i was like, the car has been running a good three weeks

yea haha my bad, that was the first thread so I figured it would have been recent haha