installing header

[whiterider00]

looking into getting the pacesetter header. i have the funds for the header, but not so much for paying someone to install it. i was wondering if anyone has done it themself and if theres any big issues with it. also, i dont have a welder, and planned on clamping the extension to my stock pipe. i assume its the same size pipe, or am i wrong? everywhere i read about them says it could attach right to factory exhaust. id really like to just have to buy a $2 clamp instead of paying who knows what to have it welded. feedback would be appreciated. thanks.

[[ion] C2]

fun.

you get to hacksaw off the downpipe at the right spot so that you can clamp the new downpipe to the stock pipe. the pacesetter's downpipe diameter is slightly bigger than the stock pipe so you'll need an adapter too. you get to extend the wires on your O2 sensor so it threads into the farther away location that the header has.

other than that you should be able to do it. air tools make things a lot easier... and welding is better..

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

I just did my header on Thursday.

tools needed:
jack
4 jack stands (get the car as high as you can)
ratcheting socket wrench (with lots of extensions)
10mm socket (for the heat shield)
(IIRC) 9/16 socket (for the 10 header bolts)
hack saw (cutting torch is better, sawzall is best)
22mm crescent wrench (for the sensor on the header)
a handful of zipties (preferably black)
Liquid Wrench (or any prefered brand of penetrating oil)
the appropriate sized adapters and clamps

*****before you do any work, make sure you have the proper size adapter (or another car to make runs to the parts store*****

step 1: get the car into the spot you plan on working on it...and let the engine cool for about an hour (if you work bare-handed). Give it about 10 minutes if you have gloves.

step 2: jack the car up onto jack stands. This can be done while car is cooling.

step 3: when car is done cooling, take the heat shield off the header. (3 bolts) Discard if you like.

step 4: break the lock on all 10 header nuts. once they are all unlocked, then you can remove them. Also unplug the sensor from the header. (there is a clip on its wire, just unclip it)

step 5: this is tricky...get under the car and unscrew the 3 bolts connecting the header to the downpipe. use of Liquid Wrench is almost required here. May also need a scond person on top to make sure the bolts don't just spin. This would require a 5/8 cresent wrench. Take th header out from the top. Be careful because it is a tight fit, and you may rip the firewall fabric.

step 6: get your hacksaw (or whatever cutting tool you have) and cut off the stock downpipe. remember, the header-dowpipe assembly is about the same size stock as it is from pacesetter, so cut it nearly flush so you have room for your adapter.

step 7: Take the sensor from the old header, and put it in the new header (22mm crescent wrench). Then put in your new header and new gasket. this is also the time to giggle and stuff when you compare the openings on the old gasket to the new one. Make sure all the bolts are super tight, but do not strip them.

step 8: attach the downpipe to the header using the nuts, bolts, washers and springs that came with the new header. This is pretty tricky because the spring is a PITA. The new header should also have a diagram with it to show you the order of the washers an springs. This step also requires 2 people, just to make sure the bolts don't spin. (and for extra eyes, in case you drop the nuts, springs or washers) Don't make them tight yet.

step 9: attach the adapter to the downpipe and to the exhaust pipe, and then clamp them tight. I forget the size socket on the clamps, but if you got a full set of sockets, you have it.

step 10: tighten the header-to-downpipe bolts.

step 11: plug the wires for the sensor back together over the header. Use the zip ties to keep the wire up off the header. (I sort of had to make a chain, and hooked them onto the clips that were already in the firewall)

step 12: bring the car down off the jack stands. go from the rear first. You can get both rear jack stands out at once by jacking it up from the middle. Then you have to do the fronts one at a time from the sides.

once the jack stands are out and the car is down, you are done!

tips: when removing the old header, you may have to bend the oil dipstick tube, and unplug the air hose, just to give you clearance. just remember to plug the hose back in and do not bend the tube so much.

[whiterider00]

that doesnt sound all that bad. few hours and it shud be done. couple questions...i know ion mentioned it, but will i definately have to extend the wires for the sensor? and how long did it take you albino?

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

it took me 7 hours to overhaul my whole exhaust, but just the header should be about 2 hours if you have the right adapters. and you don't need to extend the wires, but it's not a bad idea to do. I untied some of the knots of wires next to the IDI cover, and made some slack, then tied the sensor wire up to keep it off the exhaust.

[AJules]

I just did my header on Thursday.

tools needed:
jack
4 jack stands (get the car as high as you can)
ratcheting socket wrench (with lots of extensions)
10mm socket (for the heat shield)
(IIRC) 9/16 socket (for the 10 header bolts)
hack saw (cutting torch is better, sawzall is best)
22mm crescent wrench (for the sensor on the header)
a handful of zipties (preferably black)
Liquid Wrench (or any prefered brand of penetrating oil)
the appropriate sized adapters and clamps

*****before you do any work, make sure you have the proper size adapter (or another car to make runs to the parts store*****

step 1: get the car into the spot you plan on working on it...and let the engine cool for about an hour (if you work bare-handed). Give it about 10 minutes if you have gloves.

step 2: jack the car up onto jack stands. This can be done while car is cooling.

step 3: when car is done cooling, take the heat shield off the header. (3 bolts) Discard if you like.

step 4: break the lock on all 10 header nuts. once they are all unlocked, then you can remove them. Also unplug the sensor from the header. (there is a clip on its wire, just unclip it)

step 5: this is tricky...get under the car and unscrew the 3 bolts connecting the header to the downpipe. use of Liquid Wrench is almost required here. May also need a scond person on top to make sure the bolts don't just spin. This would require a 5/8 cresent wrench. Take th header out from the top. Be careful because it is a tight fit, and you may rip the firewall fabric.

step 6: get your hacksaw (or whatever cutting tool you have) and cut off the stock downpipe. remember, the header-dowpipe assembly is about the same size stock as it is from pacesetter, so cut it nearly flush so you have room for your adapter.

step 7: Take the sensor from the old header, and put it in the new header (22mm crescent wrench). Then put in your new header and new gasket. this is also the time to giggle and stuff when you compare the openings on the old gasket to the new one. Make sure all the bolts are super tight, but do not strip them.

step 8: attach the downpipe to the header using the nuts, bolts, washers and springs that came with the new header. This is pretty tricky because the spring is a PITA. The new header should also have a diagram with it to show you the order of the washers an springs. This step also requires 2 people, just to make sure the bolts don't spin. (and for extra eyes, in case you drop the nuts, springs or washers) Don't make them tight yet.

step 9: attach the adapter to the downpipe and to the exhaust pipe, and then clamp them tight. I forget the size socket on the clamps, but if you got a full set of sockets, you have it.

step 10: tighten the header-to-downpipe bolts.

step 11: plug the wires for the sensor back together over the header. Use the zip ties to keep the wire up off the header. (I sort of had to make a chain, and hooked them onto the clips that were already in the firewall)

step 12: bring the car down off the jack stands. go from the rear first. You can get both rear jack stands out at once by jacking it up from the middle. Then you have to do the fronts one at a time from the sides.

once the jack stands are out and the car is down, you are done!

tips: when removing the old header, you may have to bend the oil dipstick tube, and unplug the air hose, just to give you clearance. just remember to plug the hose back in and do not bend the tube so much.

This would be pretty helpful in the How-To Archive & FAQ for other people who want to do this in the future.

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

Thanks. I'll C&P it over there.

[whiterider00]

thanks for all the info, should help a lot. how much power u think you gained from it? was it noticable, or not make much of a difference?

[AtomicX]

Worth it to go have it welded?

[whiterider00]

i was thinking the same thing. i know it wouldnt cost a lot to have like 1 seam welded, but if i can get away with just clamping it, then i will.

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

I don't know how much power it gave me, but it is very noticeable. my 0-60 is definitely a shorter distance.

and it is very worth it to get welded. it will ensure you that there isn't a leak. leaky exhaust isn't a HUGE issue on NA engines, but it will eat up your mileage, depending on the size of the leak. When I was running straight pipe (stock header), I was getting 120 miles to the tank, granny driving, and 80 miles hot-rodding it. You need to keep the back-pressure.

[whiterider00]

alright, ill look into going somewhere or finding someone with a welder. thanks for all the info, ill post something when i get it and get it installed.

[AtomicX]

I went to my local custom exhaust place and they estimated about $100 to install a header.

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

sounds pretty fair. since most places charge 60-90 dollars per hour for labor.

[whiterider00]

probly be around that price here too...which is why im going to do as much as possible myself. i hate paying people to do something that i could do myself.

[lonnie]

I wouldn't work under jack stands!!!

[slvralero420]

is it the safty issue or the pita issue Lonnie?

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

I wouldn't work under jack stands!!!
Jack stands are perfectly fine if you place them in the right spot. I wouldn't work on a car supported only by a jack.

[whiterider00]

think i would have enough room with it only lifted up in the front? only have one pair of stands.

[darksobsession]

the exhaust system is composed of header, cat, catback, muffler and piping?

the piping should be 2.5-3" for a non turbo or s/c?

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

exhaust system is Header->downpipe->Cat->pipe->muffler (if you take out the resonator, like I did)
catback is a word used to describe the setup, it's not a part.

my piping is stock, and IIRC it's 2 1/8" ID. 3" would be too much for a NA setup on the 2.4. would be perfect on boosted though.

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

think i would have enough room with it only lifted up in the front? only have one pair of stands.
if the only thing you're doing is the header, you should be good doing just the front. Get it as high as you can without putting the stands on the suspension though. firm on the "frame"

[Fast Eddie]

The exhaust system is typically the manifold/header, down pipe, flex pipe, cat, resonator, muffler, and the piping connecting them all. I have a header into 2.5" mandrel bent and I wouldn't go any bigger for NA.

Also, when you connect the header back to the head there is a specific torque sequence that you are suppose to follow. Starting in the center and working out at a certain value then do it again to a higher setting. This prevents warping of the head. The connection really does not need to be uber tight either, that is what the gasket is for.

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

^ Thanks! I didn't know that, but I figured it was common sense. lol I treated it like the lugnuts, "trying" to do the star pattern.

[darksobsession]

i have the ecotec. seems most recommend about a 2.5" piping. already got a header and a muffler. does getting a highflow cat really help?

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

if you already have the muffler and header installed, don't bother. if you don't have them installed already, sure go for it. the stock Cat flows fairly nicely, if it's in good condition.

Just by luck, I purchased a high-flow cat online. days later (before the high flow arrived) the stock one clogged and burnt up...so I needed to replace it anyway.

[whiterider00]

ive been thinking about replacing the cat while i was under there, seeing as the original one has 165+k on it, but there doesnt seem to be any issues with it, and im quite tight on money, so ill probly leave whats there, especially since i may not be able to weld it all up. really looking forward to getting the header on tho...

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

when there are no problems, I've heard that factory cats can last up to around 400k. I wouldn't replace it unless there's a problem. If you do, keep the old one...maybe you can sell it. hehe

[whiterider00]

it would end up taking more time and money than i really want to spend to replace the cat too, so its just the header for now.

[Alero_1986]

if you already have the muffler and header installed, don't bother. if you don't have them installed already, sure go for it. the stock Cat flows fairly nicely, if it's in good condition.

Just by luck, I purchased a high-flow cat online. days later (before the high flow arrived) the stock one clogged and burnt up...so I needed to replace it anyway.


curious to know what the symptoms are that would indicate a bad converter? It's not an issue that I have ever encountered. Just curious... :)

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

well, depends on how bad it is. if its absolutely clogged, exhaust pressure could build up and eventually cause misfiring. if its just not converting well, the sensor will pick it up and shoot you a dummy light.

[Alero_1986]

cool. Thanks for the info! :)

[whiterider00]

suprised i havent had any issues with mine. cars been lowered for about 8 months, and the cat seems to be the lowest part of the exhaust, thus hitting on speedbumps, and steep inclines, but havent got any codes or change in performance.

[whiterider00]

no sense starting another thread with the same topic, so ill ask here: did anybody who installed the header wrap it first? i ask because my brother just wrapped the headers for his 87 grand prix, and has some left over. just wondering what peoples thoughts were. he told me it voided any warranty on the headers tho, but what can really go wrong besides some rust?

[jayson_waltz]

wrap stops more heat from emitting off the header and supposedly forces the heat to move father down the exhaust b4 it escapes. and commercials say that happening would give you more power, but i highly doubt it.

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

as long as the air coming out of the engine isn't obstructed, it doesn't matter how hot it is. The stock heat shield is on there to protect the gas tank from the heat from the exhaust.

[whiterider00]

ill probly do it anyway since the stuff is so inexpensive. cant hurt right?

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

unnecessary added weight...plus if you get moisture in there, it makes the pipes more susceptible to rust. more cons than pros. better off just going without it.

[whiterider00]

i dont think its gonna make any difference with the weight of it, its just fiberglass cloth. and there is a silicone based spray that you put on after wrapping them to prevent moisture. but i know when my brother did it he was covered in fiberglass fibers, and he had a hell of a time doing it. havent decided yet tho. if i get the header before my next paycheck, im just gonna put it in w/o wrap. if i get more money before the header, i may wrap it before installing.

[KenshinZero]

i dont think its gonna make any difference with the weight of it, its just fiberglass cloth. and there is a silicone based spray that you put on after wrapping them to prevent moisture. but i know when my brother did it he was covered in fiberglass fibers, and he had a hell of a time doing it. havent decided yet tho. if i get the header before my next paycheck, im just gonna put it in w/o wrap. if i get more money before the header, i may wrap it before installing.

Wear rubber gloves :yahoo:

[AlbinoMonkeyRat]

Wear hazmat suit :yahoo:
fixed lol

[KenshinZero]

:lol:

[whiterider00]

i decided to go with out the wrap. just gonna be more work to do and more money to spend. plus ill have to be handling it constantly trying to get it installed. should have the header by early next week. yay.

[Fenderxcore]

I've also heard that if you do only a header and not the rest of the exhaust system that you can burn up your valves since you'll now have more air trying to flow out through a hole that is only meant to allow so much flow...It's the stock size for a reason...You need to expand the whole exhaust system

[colonel6632]

I've also heard that if you do only a header and not the rest of the exhaust system that you can burn up your valves since you'll now have more air trying to flow out through a hole that is only meant to allow so much flow...It's the stock size for a reason...You need to expand the whole exhaust system

is this true... if so i'll just wait a while before i install my header

[jayson_waltz]

I've also heard that if you do only a header and not the rest of the exhaust system that you can burn up your valves since you'll now have more air trying to flow out through a hole that is only meant to allow so much flow...It's the stock size for a reason...You need to expand the whole exhaust system

sounds like a big pile of bs to me.

[heineck]

5th paragraph
http://sites.google.com/site/aleromodupgrades/performance/exhaust-system#TOC-Back-Pressure-Myth

i had mine on for months, no problem

[colonel6632]

cool... now i just need some gaskets...