Supercharged

[rowdygls]

Well after the rough weekend that ASS was due to the car running like crap, it is finally coming around. The cat was plugged like we had figured once it was home, but I doubt changing it out in Michigan would've helped.

The cat has been replaced with 2.5 in/out hi-flow magnaflow unit and the resonator removed so it is a full 2.5 exhaust system. There is some slight rasp but nothing to bad or untolerable. The car is fairly loud though.

Now the reason that replacing the cat in Michigan wouldn't have helped was because the stock computer doesn't have a clue how to handle the blower and is causing it to lean out.....BAD. The car is on the dyno being tuned at the moment. The car ran 3 pulls tonight with the last one registering a 175 whp and about 180 torque (this was dynojet corrected, the actual was 160hp and 165 torque) with about 3 pounds of boost. KR and fuel are holding it back right now. Pictures and maybe a video clip will come in a few days or by Monday when it should be finished up. (fingers crossed)

I'll borrow a pic from the ASS thread for the time being:
http://www.ion-productions.com/ass08/randy/3.jpg

[Midgear]

tune that shit! whoo!

[Cliff8928]

Wooh! Maybe no issues next year! :ninja:

[rowdygls]

Wooh! Maybe no issues next year! :ninja:

I'm shooting for no issues this year anymore, which should carry over to next year....so yeah..no issues next year.

[kwhauck]

intercool that puppy!!!!

[NickAlero2000]

yea do it up dude! make it run like a baby again!!!
lol

[mfuller]

Seems like yesterday I was kneeling on the plenum pulling the O2 sensor and changing the back 3 spark plugs.....

[[ion] C2]

Yes it does. Can't wait for 09.

[guiguilandry]

awesome project, that supercharger kit is great !!!!!!!!

[bryan213]

mind i ask whare did u get that supercharger u lucky basdard ha

[02AleroEco]

yea do it up dude! make it run like a baby again!!!
lol



hahahahaha baboes dont run, they crawl. :ninja:

But no, its lookin nice.. is the car kitted?

[[ion] C2]

http://www.ion-productions.com/ass08/randy/2.jpg

[01OldsAleroGt]

i am soo jealous.. i want that S/C sooo badly

[Spilner521]

Now the reason that replacing the cat in Michigan wouldn't have helped was because the stock computer doesn't have a clue how to handle the blower and is causing it to lean out.....BAD.

Are you on stock injectors? If you are, you shouldn't even be pushing boost into the engine. The stock computer doesn't know how to handle it because it doesn't read boost of any kind, and it's going lean because it doesn't know there's all kinds of extra air going in. You need some way to add more fuel with boost, and until then, stay off the throttle.

[[ion] C2]

Yes he was on stock injectors and stock tune lol and everyone at ASS was like "that's what the kit was made for" I was like ... uhh..

[rowdygls]

Are you on stock injectors? If you are, you shouldn't even be pushing boost into the engine. The stock computer doesn't know how to handle it because it doesn't read boost of any kind, and it's going lean because it doesn't know there's all kinds of extra air going in. You need some way to add more fuel with boost, and until then, stay off the throttle.

Right now the duty cycle of the injectors doesn't look to bad, but yes we are tuning to add more fuel among other things.

[Spilner521]

The duty cycle doesn't look bad because the engine still thinks it's naturally aspirated, so it's only giving you enough fuel for the air it thinks it's drawing in on it's own. The duty cycle should look "not too bad" when the car has a proper A/F ratio to run safely. A stock fuel system was meant for 0 psi of boost an nothing more.

C2;388125']Yes he was on stock injectors and stock tune lol and everyone at ASS was like "that's what the kit was made for" I was like ... uhh..
Lol...you and I both know it doesn't work like that. Some people just don't understand it.

[rowdygls]

I have trailblazer injectors but not installed. But I agree this kit needs more fuel to operate properly. I'll see how the tune goes and go from there, if I need the injectors, they'll be installed.

[Cliff8928]

That kit does have that funky fuel regulator which is there to supposedly help the fueling. It's no tune, that's for sure.

[Spilner521]

It may help a little, but it'll only push so much extra fuel through the small stock injectors.

[Cliff8928]

Shows how much interest Magnacharger had in that kit i guess...

[rowdygls]

Alright, after a few set backs, we finally got the car closer to being done. Right now it is making 190 whp with a bit more to go, no idea on torque (didn't pay attention).

I will post the pictures of the dyno pulls once the car is finished. I also should have a video clip tomorrow from the front and back (hopefully).

[[ion] C2]

how much boost?

[rowdygls]

4.5 pounds

[[ion] C2]

turn it up to 8-10. lol

[01OldsAleroGt]

im still jealous of you rowdy... but def can't wait till that s/c is tuned

[rowdygls]

4.5 pounds

C2;389814']turn it up to 8-10. lol

all in due time...I have a smaller pulley that should take me up to about 12 and bigger injectors but not at the moment.

[[ion] C2]

oh yeah forgot the stock injectors

[rowdygls]

Finally got the car back tonight and it's working like a champ. Here was the last pull run from last night when it topped out at 195 whp. I will load a few more vids. I'm still waiting on the actual power graphs and I will try to get some drive-bys in a few days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THZL3b-S590

(if someone has a better recommendation for video hosting, let me know)

[clutch1]

Saw this all in person today.. I gotta say, it's sick!

[mfuller]

Sounds a lot healthier than last time. Glad you are getting all the wrinkles ironed out.

[Midgear]

lol woot.. such a nice whine even at low psi. nice!

[rowdygls]

Sounds a lot healthier than last time. Glad you are getting all the wrinkles ironed out.

Oh man, healthy isn't the word, it is down right dialed. Yep, all the wrinkles have now been ironed out once the tune was done.

[mfuller]

Oh man, healthy isn't the word, it is down right dialed. Yep, all the wrinkles have now been ironed out once the tune was done.

I'll need proof next weekend.:yahoo:

Out of curiosity, who tuned it and by what method? HPTuners or DHP?

[natedawg9640]

ugh... still tryin to figure out exactly what to do about next weekend... i wann a swing by but i just dont know how i'm gonna go about making that happen.

[rowdygls]

I'll need proof next weekend.:yahoo:

Out of curiosity, who tuned it and by what method? HPTuners or DHP?


Done Rite Performance up here....4 miles from my house and they used HPTuners. They have a four wheel dyno rated for 1000 hp continous and 2000 hp intermittent. http://www.doneriteautomotive.com/ is their site, check it out.

[Oldsnut]

I'll need proof next weekend.:yahoo:

Same here. :yahoo: :yahoo:

Look forward to it.

[[ion] C2]

wtf's your injector duty cycle lol

[rowdygls]

C2;391075']wtf's your injector duty cycle lol

104 %, but it is not running out of fuel at any point, if I wanted to put the smaller pulley on...then I would have problems.

They normally tune the street cars to no more then 106-108%(if I remember correctly), if it is more of a race based car, then they run it well under 100%.

[mfuller]

Normally forced induction cars are good up to about 90% duty cycle, but anything above 100% means your injectors are running static, and they will eventually fail from being wide open for extended periods of time.
It only takes a few seconds to go lean and pop a piston.......as long as you have those 28#ers, might as well play it safe and put 'em in.
Just trying to look out for ya, buddy.

Some math for you -

Say you are making 270HP at the flywheel. Your Brake Specific Fuel Consumption is the amount of fuel consumed (in lbs. per hour) for each horsepower made. This should be , .55 to .60 for supercharged engines.
** Maximum Injector Duty Cycle should be around 80% max for safe operation. This allows for some future horsepower increases.

At 90% duty cycle, your injectors need to flow 30lb/hr at 43.5psi. Obviously, the stock LA1 has a 55psi FPR, and you get a tad more from the compound regulator that came with the Magnacharger kit. So 28# injectors are about right.

[[ion] C2]

I'm not sure where they learned to tune, but 80% is the MAX you should ever run. The injectors have a high risk of clipping when they're past 80%, and especially at or above 100%, trying to stay open longer than is possible, causing the injector to "float" half open, will overheat, burn out and fail, as well as leaning you out like crazy. Injectors go static at 92% for sure.

If an injector stays on all the time, it is said to be static (wide open, or 100% duty cycle). INJECTORS SHOULD NOT GO STATIC IN A RUNNING ENGINE! If an injector is static in a running engine (open 100% of the time), that injector is no longer able to control fuel delivery. It is just “along for the ride”. This could be an indication that the injector is too small for the needs of the engine. Injector duty cycle should usually not exceed 80% in a running engine at any time.

Warning: Duty cycle should not exceed 80%

Do you even have a wideband? lol

[rowdygls]

Thanks Matt, that might be something I look into come this spring if it is something I can do and is fairly straight forward as the car won't be driven much longer.

I don't have a wide band, but it was tuned with a wide band attached.

[[ion] C2]

Something to look into whatchoo talkin' 'bout. Put in the injectors and change the injector constant with HPTuners and tada you're done and have a safe IDC. Changing injectors is easy.

[rowdygls]

I will check with them tomorrow, but they said I should be fine where I am at and they have tuned numerous cars from around the country.

[[ion] C2]

"Sniffer" widebands are USELESS and inaccurate, lol. You should be fine as long as you don't go wide open much at all.

[AleroB888]

I must live in the 4th Dimension....

[[ion] C2]

o_O..

[alerored04]

Rowdy, I would look into Richies 42.5lb injectors he has up for sale. He dropped the price to $100. That is a steal. What time are we meeting next weekend. I will be there as long as there are no snags with the body work next week. The guy said it would only take a few days, he just has to pull a couple dents and repaint a few panels. He has little business so it should work out.

[Spilner521]

I will check with them tomorrow, but they said I should be fine where I am at and they have tuned numerous cars from around the country.
Well apparently they don't know what they're talking about. At 100% duty cycle the injectors are wide open all the time....they don't close, they don't pulse, it's just a constant stream of fuel coming out. So having a duty cycle over 100% doesn't really make any sense at all. They're already working they're hardest at 100%, hence the 100%. They can't work harder than their hardest....

I don't know why you think it's ok to run stock injectors on a boosted setup. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the stock fuel system and injectors are good for 0psi of boost. Any more boost than Zero and you need bigger injectors to flow more fuel.

What kind of air/fuel ratios is this thing tuned for?

[AleroB888]

C2;391141']o_O..

No, seriously, I agree with what you posted, but the stuff that happens on my setup defies logic. It shouldn't be happening. I'm glad rowdygls is doing this build up, so I can get another perspective...

Good work, btw...

[Spilner521]

^^What's happening on your setup?

[[ion] C2]

He travels through time when he hits boost.

For $100, 6 injectors is a STEAL! Four for me of that size would cost near $400!

[AleroB888]

^^What's happening on your setup?

It's run for 2 years with injectors going over 100 % duty cycle, when I go to larger injectors it seems to, well uh..... vapor lock. (It's fuel injection, right?)

But that's my problem right now, I'll post up in another thread on it if possible. :)

[Crazytaxi37]

Rowdy already has the 42lb injectors that came with the setup.