Arg!!!! Help!!!

[AlexSchu02AleroV6]

Alright so I am getting enormously pissed at my alero! I have an 02 2dr with the 3400 (obviously) I have been having problems with it for a long time now. I used to love the thing when I bought it before all this started happening.... anyway the car started having a loss of performance one day... it was vey minor but over time it increased. I figured I will get this puppy a tune-up because I don't know if it had been done before. So I got the Bosch Platinum plugs and found out that I needed ACDelco plugs... ugh $120.00 at the dealer! I also got the ACDelco wires too (Might as well do it right) So that fixed the random missfire code I was getting but it didn't fix the Bogging down/Enormous loss of power I was experiencing. So I took it to the dealer and they said I need a new EGR Valve because mine was bad. Ok..... So I replaced the EGR Valve which was rather easy... and NO DIFFERENCE! By this point I am getting super pissed and I don't know what the hell is up! Anyway I was talking to a mechanic who said that this is a common problem with the 3400's and that the computer usually is missing the last digit of the code for the EGR (GM's fault) So go get the computer reprogrammed... ok so I did that and another $100.00 down the drain..... still no difference! I have cleaned my MAF 3 times and changed the oil filter, fuel filter, and coil-packs. At this point I am at a loss for the problem. It still comes up with the EGR code P0404 EGR open position...... What the hell!!!! I have also run fuel injector cleaner (Lucas) through it about ten times. The problem hasn't really gotten any worse but it pisses me off cause it has the poer of a geo metro! It is really hard to get it to switch gears because of the lack of power and going up a hill absolutely slaughters me! Please help!

[[ion] C2]

ROFL $120 for spark plugs!

Check the catalytic converter. How many miles are on it?

[WhiteV6]

Wasting your money on plugs (120, wtf), lucas additives (junk), ecm reflash (bs story) would piss anyone off. Have your cat tested as it may be plugged up.

[super white alero1]

You guys do nothing constructive to help him but yea, $120.00 is a little too much. Clean your EGR system, tell your local mech to do a BG-44K engine treatment.

Tell him to spray it till the engine fouls out, sit 10 minutes restart (will run like crap for a minute), retest. drive home.

[Blktrax]

You most likely have and EGR clog weather it be in the tube, or intake maifold.

I see it all the time in 100k mi v6 accords. Throw an EGR code at autozone or wherever, they throw on and EGR valve clear the code and the code comes back. The problem is carbon buildup in the passages, and the only way to clean it is to physically clean it with a brush or wire tool. This happened on the GF 3.1L 96 Cutlass, I fortunatly cleaned that with the Lower Intake Manifold Job witch also may be a source of your troubles.

****edit**** As I said ^^^ is a common source of a P0420, The EGR position open can be tested with the GM Tech2 they can manually operate the valve. If it operates, then you have problems elsewhere, if it doesn't is and electrical issues or the valve is bad.

[super white alero1]

^^ lol sounds like you know what you talking about. Take off the top plate drill a hole, clean, no more EGR failure. :)

[DansGen1Alero]

Knock sensor, both of them needs to be replaced

[Nate's Alero]

WTF is a knock sensor?

[Blktrax]

WTF is a knock sensor?

Ususally associated with a low octane condiditon and more dangerous in Turbo/superchared cars. "Knocking" better discribed as detonation, is ignition of the air fuel mix before top dead center of the power stroke. This in severe condiditions can also be called a backfire. In the usual minimal condidions of low octane or too much timing advance, the knock sensor picks up the sound through the block and tells the computer to retard timing or add fuel.

[WhiteV6]

Have your cat tested as it may be plugged up.

You guys do nothing constructive to help

Thanks.

[natedawg9640]

tee he... you said retard

[WhiteV6]

The knock sensor does not tell the ECM to add fuel. It only retards timing. Spark events start before TDC, but you can have pre-ignition or detonation, which are uncontrolled combustion events as was described above.

You would have a code for a faulty knock sensor or a constant 15 degree retard (or whatever max for obd2 is since I work with obd1). Its possible that it is more sensitive than it should be or that the filter for your knock sensor accepts more than it should.

Your fuel pump could be going bad or your filter is clogged. There are a lot of things it could be right now. Running injector cleaner all the time is very bad for your injectors. You should never need injector cleaner if you run quaity gas and change the filter on time.

[Blktrax]

The knock sensor does not tell the ECM to add fuel.

Not directly, and varies by application, in this application it doesn't appear so, but I used a blanket statement. Ultimately the ECM manages fuel and spark, but does so by the information of various sensors. Still waiting on the fed-ex guy with my helms service manual.... somwhat still feeling in the dark on this, but genteral OBDII operations and past experiences with other vehicles.

[Redog]

Knock sensor FTL,

Bitch to replace on the LA1 :cry:

[Cliff8928]

I would try disconnecting or blocking off the EGR and seeing if that makes a difference. (don't leave it blocked off though)...

The reason for the P0404 is that the PCM is commanding the EGR to be open and the position sensor for the EGR is reading a actual value varying more than 15% from the desired value.

[zzyzzx]

I'm also thinking clogged egr tube.

[DansGen1Alero]

Im tellin you dont rule out the knock, I had bad misfire for a while and I had them both replaced, they commonly go out on GMs, esp cadilacs
they would casue the misfire that is being spoken about, the one knock sensor is not that hard to replace, i beleive you can get to it from removing the pass side front tire, the other if i recall is behind the engine if facing it straight on

[super white alero1]

Im tellin you dont rule out the knock, I had bad misfire for a while and I had them both replaced, they commonly go out on GMs, esp cadilacs
they would casue the misfire that is being spoken about, the one knock sensor is not that hard to replace, i beleive you can get to it from removing the pass side front tire, the other if i recall is behind the engine if facing it straight on

Alright so I am getting enormously pissed at my alero! I have an 02 2dr with the 3400 (obviously) I have been having problems with it for a long time now. I used to love the thing when I bought it before all this started happening.... anyway the car started having a loss of performance one day... it was vey minor but over time it increased. I figured I will get this puppy a tune-up because I don't know if it had been done before. So I got the Bosch Platinum plugs and found out that I needed ACDelco plugs... ugh $120.00 at the dealer! I also got the ACDelco wires too (Might as well do it right) So that fixed the random missfire code I was getting but it didn't fix the Bogging down/Enormous loss of power I was experiencing. So I took it to the dealer and they said I need a new EGR Valve because mine was bad. Ok..... So I replaced the EGR Valve which was rather easy... and NO DIFFERENCE! By this point I am getting super pissed and I don't know what the hell is up! Anyway I was talking to a mechanic who said that this is a common problem with the 3400's and that the computer usually is missing the last digit of the code for the EGR (GM's fault) So go get the computer reprogrammed... ok so I did that and another $100.00 down the drain..... still no difference! I have cleaned my MAF 3 times and changed the oil filter, fuel filter, and coil-packs. At this point I am at a loss for the problem. It still comes up with the EGR code P0404 EGR open position...... What the hell!!!! I have also run fuel injector cleaner (Lucas) through it about ten times. The problem hasn't really gotten any worse but it pisses me off cause it has the poer of a geo metro! It is really hard to get it to switch gears because of the lack of power and going up a hill absolutely slaughters me! Please help!

post skimming pwn you. He is experiencing blogging down and and EGR code. EGR if open will blog down the engine. And trigger and EGR code. P0404 – Exhaust Gas Recirculation Performance (Open) The clean needs to be throughly check, a local mech shop will have some way of activing the valve itself, using either a Solus, Modulus, GM Tech II, Gensys Pathfinder or some other mean. Have them monitor the RPM, O2 (B1S1, when active the value of the O2 should decrease due to higher level of NOX, the value should range from 0.6-1.25, if value higher than this you have a vacuum leak, if significiantly lower than this, you have a clog, in the EGR system,

Once agains ask AZ to get you a Freeze Frame, Active codes, and/or Pending. The freeze frame will help you see the condition that trigger the code and help diagnosis.

Which of these codes do you have?
P0
401
403
404
405

[DansGen1Alero]

Sorry thats what I meant, bogging down, when mine bogged down it seemed like a misfire, my bad, but the bogg down is what mine was, the knock sensors

[-Alero-]

Knock sensor FTL,

Bitch to replace on the LA1 :cry:


uhh isnt the or at least 1 knock sensor right next to the oil pressure sending unit, which is right next to the oil filter, they look similar and it just unscrews right out, im pretty sure thats the knock sensor

[DansGen1Alero]

i think your right, its been a while since i saw them replace mine, but i think thats where it was

[-Alero-]

yeah its like real simple if thats it, like easier than changing a spark plug

[AlexSchu02AleroV6]

Nice ideas guys thanks for the help.... anyway if you missed it the missfire isn't the proble manymore its just the EGR Valve code.... I payed too much for the plugs and wires because I purchased them from the dealer.......DUMMB!! But I was told these cars are picky so I did it anyway. I THINK that the hose for the EGR needs to be cleaned.... I just spoke with a mobile mechanic and that is the first thing he said needs to be done... I took the car to Midas as they do exhaust checks for free :yahoo: And the cat is NOT clogged so good news there! I'm going to try cleaning the line for the EGR and see how that goes... any clues on how to go about this? Wire brush down the tube but how do I do it for the intake?

[AlexSchu02AleroV6]

Oh yeah and by the way I have had to car for 25,000 miles since the dealer so I think it is definately time to change the fuel filter.... I bought one but how do you get those damn clips off? They are so hard, I have changed filters before and never been that stubborn!

[Beholder88]

The best way to get the filter off is to get the fuel line quick disconnect tool from Autozone or somewhere. Makes it go a hell of a lot smoother. Get the metal one.

[AlexSchu02AleroV6]

:yahoo: Yes ok so definately love this guy
You most likely have and EGR clog weather it be in the tube, or intake maifold.

I see it all the time in 100k mi v6 accords. Throw an EGR code at autozone or wherever, they throw on and EGR valve clear the code and the code comes back. The problem is carbon buildup in the passages, and the only way to clean it is to physically clean it with a brush or wire tool. This happened on the GF 3.1L 96 Cutlass, I fortunatly cleaned that with the Lower Intake Manifold Job witch also may be a source of your troubles.

****edit**** As I said ^^^ is a common source of a P0420, The EGR position open can be tested with the GM Tech2 they can manually operate the valve. If it operates, then you have problems elsewhere, if it doesn't is and electrical issues or the valve is bad.

So I was being really old-fashioned and used a wire coat hanger to try and scrape the tube and the spot when the egr goes into the TB? Anyway there is MOST DEFINATELY carbon build up! Black gunk was on the wire.... I couldn't get very much considering it was just a wire but it helped a bit! So now it makes me wonder how much carbon build-up there is in the damn thing!!! Where could I take it to have it cleaned? Would that require taking apart the IM? Oh and why the hell does so much carbon build up... I have had cars 20 years old that don't do that! sometimes I think GM loves to piss people off, problem is I LOVE that car when it is behaving well

[super white alero1]

You could do it yourself as I said or you could get a BG-44K engine treatment. Get 2 cans of good carbon cleaner (I recommend Redline PN 83522 60103 and STP carbon cleaner). A flexible wire brush or 3, a few rags, a new EGR gasket, a razor-blade.

First scrap all the crude off the base of the valve and let the openning of soak in fuel cleaner for 10 minutes while you work on the base of valve. Turn valve up-sdie down and spray into openning. Then push pinlte down and clean that too, spray more into valve and let it sit. Return to openning on motor and start chipping away at the carbon. using a wired-hanger, after a little bit, spray carb cleaner into the openning, and let it sit for a few minutes. Return to valve use wire brush and scrap the openning with the pinlte. then clean the pinlte with a rag. Be careful not to push teh pinlte too hard or you might need a new valve. Once cleaned return to motor, by now the carbon should be soft enough to use a wire brush, work it till its clean. If you got a can of compressed air or a air compressor blast it into the openning while hold the throttle plate open. If the air is comming freely out of the throttle you done a good job.

Reinstall everything. Reset code, or disconnect battery (warning disconnecting battery will reset all info in the PCM, BCM and radio). Precede on your merry way.

Also P0420 is a cat code not a EGR code, and the answer to your ? about carbon build-up. All car that uses an EGR system will develope carbon build-up. ITs the result of gas not burn completely. No motor is 100% efficient, that why you have a cat, it job is to catalyze the hydrocarbon with the available oxygen that is stored in the ceramic material (aka expensive precious metal).

[jayson_waltz]

I payed too much for the plugs and wires because I purchased them from the dealer.......DUMMB!!
i purchased acdelcos from the dealer and payed just a lil over $20. that was for 4, but figured it out $5-$6 a plug, 6 still shouldn't have cost near that much. They ripped you on that.
Unless they did charge right for plugs but u had them install them, then they must have counted in break time with the labor.

[MacsAre1]

Don't know whether you've gotten this fixed yet or not, but I had a similar experience.

Apparently the EGR valve is easy to install backwards. When I got my engine rebuilt I kept getting one of the EGR valve codes (don't remember if it was the stuck open one or the stuck closed). I took it back to the same redneck mechanic that had put in the engine and he said I needed a new one. $200 later (and he was hours away from where I lived!) and I kept getting the same codes. I finally took it to a different mechanic and he told me it was on backwards. He charged me $150 to diagnose and reinstall it correctly. Since then, no more problems.

On my '99 the EGR valve has the electrical connector facing the front of the vehicle. Check yours and if it's towards the rear, you could simply unscrew it and turn it around yourself. I imagine newer models are set up the same way.

[alerored04]

/\ Newer models are different, on the 00+ uim it is impossible to install the egr backwards.