Supercharger or Turbo

[KenshinZero]

Just a question that has been lingering, Im trying to figure wich would be less expensive, It seems to me a supercharger would be the way to go (and easy in comparason) but im really not sure.:ninja:

[Midgear]

search button = win

you'll find alot of your questions already have been answered with a bit of searching.

[KenshinZero]

I did a little bit of lookin but not much, just being lazy, lol

[CiscoPath]

We don't take kindly to lazy asses in these here parts. Get to searching

[Midgear]

We don't take kindly to lazy asses in these here parts.


yet we put up with your ass..

im kidding lol.. pie.

[KenshinZero]

Lol, You know you love to be lazy, mmmm pie.

[Spilner521]

Supercharger would be the cheaper and easier route if you can find a GM kit for sale either new or used. Turbo would be a little harder and more expensive, but would get you more power.

And with that said...turbos are way better :thumb:

[cherrington17]

*cough cough* spilner is biased *cough* :lol:

[KenshinZero]

I' m rather fond of superchargers, but i'm trying to keep an open mind about it.:ninja:

[[ion] C2]

To answer your question, the MP45 supercharger kit.

Then if you want, you can add a turbocharger to it later and be twincharged! :) Whine, spooling whistle, blow-off valve... ahh.

[super white alero1]

Supercharger $1750 shipped new from GM (http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/perfPackages.cfm?group=22&label=Superchargers%20%26%20Upgrades) Includes everything short of a reflash

[[ion] C2]

You can get it cheaper through CrateEngineDepot or used on www.j-body.org.

[KenshinZero]

My luck, if i twincharge it, the motor would explode, right when i started it lol. that's just my luck though.:ninja: :eek:

[KenshinZero]

I donno about used parts, you never know if someone beat it to death before selling it.

[NickAlero2000]

lol yes, whine, spool, BOV,
join the twincharging club! my thread is near the top of 2.4L Twin Cam Specific

[meadus101]

Cheapest is a Supercharger. unless you can buy one of those turbo setups like was for sale on GAGT.

[super white alero1]

Only 2 places worth mention for supercharger. JBO and GMpartsdirect.com

[Vinalero]

I got mine over there :

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=237

Really Fast and not expensive shipping. (Ok what raped me was the border taxes, but its not a problem for you)

[Alerosaint]

x2 minus the border taxes

[Spilner521]

C2;385851']Then if you want, you can add a turbocharger to it later and be twincharged! :) Whine, spooling whistle, blow-off valve... ahh.
lol yes, whine, spool, BOV,
join the twincharging club!
While you guys are busy makin all kinds of different noises, I'll fly by with just a turbo :p

[[ion] C2]

^lol!

[NickAlero2000]

lol wow....as long as ur flyin by i guess thats all that matters

[kwhauck]

supercharger is definately cheaper, and turbo will probably make more power in the long run, but you can be ignorant like me and spend all your money on a supercharger build just to be different....well anybody modding an alero is different, so.......more different and different, like a double different.......lol........ok....i'm done.......i need another drink.......damn.......hmmmm........ok i'm back.........got another drink.....i'm good for at least five minutes..........make that three.......ok seriously i'm done..........

just for fun..........PIE!!!!

[Midgear]

just for fun..........PIE!!!!


brewahahaaaa.. pie shall overthrow cake at this rate.

[KenshinZero]

supercharger is definately cheaper, and turbo will probably make more power in the long run, but you can be ignorant like me and spend all your money on a supercharger build just to be different....well anybody modding an alero is different, so.......more different and different, like a double different.......lol........ok....i'm done.......i need another drink.......damn.......hmmmm........ok i'm back.........got another drink.....i'm good for at least five minutes..........make that three.......ok seriously i'm done..........

just for fun..........PIE!!!!

WOW:dance1: :ninja:

[01oldsgls]

bigwheel

[KenshinZero]

There is alot of random-ness here. another question that comes to mind is intercooling for a supercharger. Ive read that its difficult. :ninja:

[Midgear]

There is alot of random-ness here.


dont you just love it though.

[KenshinZero]

I wasnt complaining, I was simplyy makeing a note to all. Without it, this would be a plain and boring place, personality is what makes things intresting:ninja:

[BlackJack]

LOTS of options to choose from on intercooling. Meth or Alch. Take your pick. Heh.

WEEEEEEE-PSHHH FTW!

[KenshinZero]

Meth or Alch.?:ninja:

[cherrington17]

types of intercooler, coolants. NOT the drugs. :lol:

[BlackJack]

Methanol or Alchohol. Either is injected into the intake path to cool the charge, allowing you to run more boost with less (or preferably no) detonation. Used mostly when a physical intercooler isn't possible due to configuration or space. In the case of LD-9 engines, the S/C does not allow space for other conventional intercooler options, so it is the most likely option to use Meth or Alch for boost cooling.

[KenshinZero]

That’s what i've read, but I have it in my head, that there is a way to use an intercooler, the factory intercooler of a 1st gen. Toyota Supra has both intake and exit tubes on the same side, and i'm guessing that it would work. I haven’t had time to experiment with this idea. I understand that an intercooler with tubes on opposite sides would be impractical, and just would not work.:ninja:

[kwhauck]

w2a intercooler FTW!!!!!!

[Vinalero]

I have a question, Lets say I route tubing from the supercharger to an intercooler in the front of the car, and put the air filter at the other end of the intercooler, would it work efficiently?

[BlackJack]

Problem you'll run into in that configuration is that the intercooler will cool the air just a little, and the supercharger will warm it back up again. It's not going to be very effective if at all.

[[ion] C2]

And it'll impose a flow restriction. Doesn't work. Best thing to do is SPRAY METH!

[guiguilandry]

i'm currently working in a custom kit that will use your car a/c but not to cool the car... to cool the compressed air... gonna make a custom lower intake with the evaporator of the a/c that is in the dash incorporated to the lower intake of the car.... think it will work better than water to air intercooler setup since the new ''core of the intercooler'' will be like at 20* instead of like almost 100*... that's a try but I think it will work pretty good because the a/c never heats up and it ads no weight to the car..

[KenshinZero]

I still believe that there is a way, I’m not sure how, but its there, I know it is. I gotta draw it out I think, to better visualize it, but I refuse to believe that its imposable.:ninja:

[KenshinZero]

i'm currently working in a custom kit that will use your car a/c but not to cool the car... to cool the compressed air... gonna make a custom lower intake with the evaporator of the a/c that is in the dash incorporated to the lower intake of the car.... think it will work better than water to air intercooler setup since the new ''core of the intercooler'' will be like at 20* instead of like almost 100*... that's a try but I think it will work pretty good because the a/c never heats up and it ads no weight to the car..

Sounds promising:ninja:

[[ion] C2]

except that the a/c produces drag on the engine

laminova does some weird stuff using a/c with their intercoolers though

[guiguilandry]

it takes what... 10 to 15 hp to get the a/c working maybe 20 maximum... if it gives me the chance to boots like 5 to 7 more psi(close to 20 psi of boost) i'm gonna have 500+hp so no big deal about a loss of 20hp that create 100....

[KenshinZero]

What about useing just the vent?

[BlackJack]

Maybe I'm wrong....(wait, no....that doesn't happen) but I'm pretty sure there's some things we need to look at here. Not saying show-stoppers...but:

1) GM programs in an A/C clutch cut-out above a certain RPM or TPS. (benefit)
2) Somebody is going to get kicked off the track for their car dripping (condensation)
3) torque stress on rotational components (A/C compressor/clutch?)

These things won't definitely happen, just stuff to think about....2 bad, 1 good

[guiguilandry]

yeah i tought about the clutch thing... feed it with a relay when the key is on... water dripping. I dont think this is a problem personally..... for the torque stress .... I can hope its tough enough...

[Vinalero]

hahaha I imagine the guy saying to his buddy :

" man I gotta reinforce my A/C clucth"

"Why?"

"because i want more boost out of my supercharger"

"WTF?! " :lol:

[KenshinZero]

HAH, Theres a thought.

[Spilner521]

That’s what i've read, but I have it in my head, that there is a way to use an intercooler, the factory intercooler of a 1st gen. Toyota Supra has both intake and exit tubes on the same side, and i'm guessing that it would work. I haven’t had time to experiment with this idea. I understand that an intercooler with tubes on opposite sides would be impractical, and just would not work.:ninja:
It's easy to install an intercooler with opposite side tubes:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3308/intercoolerus2.jpg

You just won't be able to use this type of intercooler with a supercharger that is after the throttle body. Best way is a water/methanol injection kit.
I have a question, Lets say I route tubing from the supercharger to an intercooler in the front of the car, and put the air filter at the other end of the intercooler, would it work efficiently?
Wouldn't work at all. The engine would be sucking in outside air and trying to cool it with outside air. You can't cool air with air of the same temperature. It would only be a restriction on the intake.

The reason why intercoolers work is because when a turbo or supercharger compresses air, it heats up that air. The hot charge air then travels into the intercooler. Hot charge air can be cooled by cooler outside air running through the front of the intercooler.

[guiguilandry]

yeah I know that but I mean with a working a/c system you know with r134a inside as refrigerant not just the compressor pushing air into the system... what I mean is a system that work like a air to water intercooler with the coolant grille incorporated to the intake spacer that bolt between the supercharger and lower intake... except it's refrigerant inside and not water, refrigerant can maintain a very much lower working temperature than water.... if I could I would have put a air to air intercooler, but I can't, maybe if I go twincharged one day with a GT42... but I don't think that will ever happen

[Spilner521]

yeah I know that but I mean with a working a/c system you know with r134a inside as refrigerant not just the compressor pushing air into the system... what I mean is a system that work like a air to water intercooler with the coolant grille incorporated to the intake spacer that bolt between the supercharger and lower intake... except it's refrigerant inside and not water, refrigerant can maintain a very much lower working temperature than water.... if I could I would have put a air to air intercooler, but I can't, maybe if I go twincharged one day with a GT42... but I don't think that will ever happen
I wasn't talking about that at all actually...

[Cliff8928]

That’s what i've read, but I have it in my head, that there is a way to use an intercooler, the factory intercooler of a 1st gen. Toyota Supra has both intake and exit tubes on the same side, and i'm guessing that it would work.

Uhh, the Supra wasn't turbocharged until the 3rd generation.


2) Somebody is going to get kicked off the track for their car dripping (condensation)


If you had the evaporator core as the intercooler, then most of the dripping would be happening INSIDE the engine. The core is what has most of the condensation on it.

[guiguilandry]

sorry yeah i re-read the complete thread, seems I missed a couple of post the other day... by the way, what will you do with your 2,4 turbo setup when you will be swapped... I might know a couple of interested people into buying all that;)

[guiguilandry]

inside the engine... but at the speeds air travel trough it will takes it all with it like vapors soo no problems

[BlackJack]

If you had the evaporator core as the intercooler, then most of the dripping would be happening INSIDE the engine. The core is what has most of the condensation on it.

which would be fun in and of itself. OOOH...I got it, we could drill a big hole in the bottom of the supercharger or intake so the water wouldn't go into the engine.......ROFL.

[Cliff8928]

at least the water would blow out real fast! ;)

[guiguilandry]

my point is that with the heat inside the engine water will vaporize and what do you do when you spary alky ???? you spray a liquid into your engine

[BlackJack]

my point is that with the heat inside the engine water will vaporize and what do you do when you spary alky ???? you spray a liquid into your engine

Oh, that wasn't meant as a slam, I just thought it was funny. But spraying meth/alchy into your engine isn't the same, it's atomized as it's sprayed in, if done properly.

[KenshinZero]

Now, about the computer, instead of swapping it with a 2000 + Alero, wouldn’t it be possible to get one from a Cobalt SS? Considering the Cobalt is supercharged, the computer would be able to adjust the air/fuel mix, without buying a controller.

[Cliff8928]

It *may* be possible to use one from a 2004-2005 car. The problem arises that those cars were the start of using the GM Lan (CAN) bus over the older Class 2 data bus that the Alero uses.

[KenshinZero]

So wouldn’t you just need to do a little configuring with the computer? I'm thinking it would be allot easier than using a computer that has no pre set for fuel/air mix with boost.

[AleroB888]

i'm currently working in a custom kit that will use your car a/c but not to cool the car... to cool the compressed air... gonna make a custom lower intake with the evaporator of the a/c that is in the dash incorporated to the lower intake of the car.... think it will work better than water to air intercooler setup since the new ''core of the intercooler'' will be like at 20* instead of like almost 100*... that's a try but I think it will work pretty good because the a/c never heats up and it ads no weight to the car..

I think you'll find that it won't be able to keep up with the greater continuous air demand and higher temperature differential required by the engine, and also lower heat transfer coefficient. Not that it can't be done in principle, but I doubt it with the parameters of a typical auto AC system....

[guiguilandry]

using a cobalt computer is not possible you will have to redo all the wiring and still it won't work because in a CAN system the ECU need to see all the others computers of the car to start working... and you won't have the right : ABS module, SES module, BCM, etc...
you better to take the hptuner really and it'not so tough to understand, simple program... there is a couple of people overhere that I can see are using it with no problems

[KenshinZero]

Hmmm, I didn't think of that. lol

[[ion] C2]

lol wut you're in Michigan? we're like 20 mins away from each other

[KenshinZero]

HA, small world, Ive probably even seen you around, lmao!

[Nate's Alero]

HA, small world, Ive probably even seen you around, lmao!

hard to miss his car, its the most modified alero i have ever seen, next to richie's and bdyman's car

[KenshinZero]

True, and its not often you see a modified Alero anyhow :lol:

[Gr1m]

lol ion has a bodykit and rims how is that the most modified

[[ion] C2]

ya that's all i got done

lol there's a shitload of Aleros with a lot more done exterior wise, that's not my goal, show car owner is not me.

Nate's forgetting about rowdygls, FantomForceCustoms, SweetNLow, etc.

http://ion-productions.com/Brent005.jpg
http://www.ion-productions.com/ajules.JPG
http://www.ion-productions.com/bags5.jpg
http://www.ion-productions.com/DSCN0661.jpg
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/500025390.jpg
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/8459116805.jpg


@KenshinZero: Whenever you decide what to do to your Alero I'll gladly come help install and whatever. Lol I'm around I-94 and Telegraph.

[KenshinZero]

Personally, performance comes first.

[kwhauck]

Amen Brother!!!!

[KenshinZero]

What about a center fugal supercharger? You could Intercool that pretty easy. Anybody have one?

[[ion] C2]

RSM made a kit but they were terrible, the supercharger failed.

[meadus101]

C2;389844']ya that's all i got done

lol there's a shitload of Aleros with a lot more done exterior wise, that's not my goal, show car owner is not me.

Nate's forgetting about rowdygls, FantomForceCustoms, SweetNLow, etc.

http://ion-productions.com/Brent005.jpg
http://www.ion-productions.com/ajules.JPG
http://www.ion-productions.com/bags5.jpg
http://www.ion-productions.com/DSCN0661.jpg
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/500025390.jpg
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/8459116805.jpg


@KenshinZero: Whenever you decide what to do to your Alero I'll gladly come help install and whatever. Lol I'm around I-94 and Telegraph.


Someone forgot Richie.