Intake Velocity, etc...

[Beholder88]

Anybody know, or know where to find somplace that has a listing of the velocities and CFM's that are present in the 3400's intake? -OR- if there is anyone that has flow bench records for the stock manifold? There IS a way to use an electric motor/fan combo to produce boost, not a lot, maybe 5psi or less, but you need to match the capabilities of the electric motor to the statistics of the 3400 to get it right. The electric motor would have to be able to overcome the vacuum produced from the motor in order to work. I've seen a video on youtube where someone used a leaf blower motor, and produced about 5 lbs of boost. Do you guys think there is any validity to this claim?

[surreal_awakening]

IMO....ghey

[AGT]

IMO...Very little to worry about or spend money. I believe you are right but cheap HP is just like cheap anything: You get what you pay for.

[[ion] C2]

It does NOT work, it's NOT efficient whatsoever, and it takes more energy to power the weakass fan than it can push. It can't overcome the engine's ability to suck air in. The leaf blower only produces gains because it is NOT being powered by the vehicle! It's either an electric or gas powered blower that is not producing drag. Notice the dyno videos are only during a dyno run. If you had it hooked up all the time it would be a restriction all during out of boost, and totally screw up your airflow as well if you had it on all the time. It's an instant fixed amount of air going through the leaf blower, it doesn't work like a true supercharger or turbocharger. Why the hell do you think superchargers have bypass valves?

The GM kit's ACTUAL supercharger makes 5 PSI stock. You think a wimpy electric fan is going to PUSH enough air to make positive pressure? The engine's vacuum is anywhere up to 13 PSI NEGATIVE, that you have to pressurize before passing 0 and getting into boost.

[Redog]

The s/c fan you are talking about it a galley vent fan for a boat.

If you really want to try it, boating website sell them for $20 and smiple wiring makes it work.

However, not only will this REDUCE the air in the intake, but the plastic blades WILL break and go thru the TB and down into the motor. That is not a good thing.

Sorry, but 60 hp isn't gained by spending $20 ;)

[AGT]

C2 is right..

You need at least a Type R badge to get above 5psi

[cherrington17]

same as the HHO guys.

your going to be using about as much electric energy to produce about as much HP... the drain on the alt will affect the car. no benefit can be gained. its just careful wording/number manipulation....

[[ion] C2]

The Thomas Knight superchargers are the only electric ones that work, and those are powered by like 6 batteries in the trunk, which will require recharging, add loads of weight, and also can only be used at wide-open throttle. Only.

A real supercharger or turbocharger increases the efficiency of an engine through every aspect of it's time running.

[kwhauck]

if you want cheap horsepower, go buy a wet-nitrous kit....

[Beholder88]

Wow, didn't think I'd get blown away like that. I know there are those out there against this, and I can see why. I didn't think about the strain on the alternator, to be honest, so that is a valid point. So let's look at this as a concept, if it could be made to work. Piggyback a sensor, probably a variable resistor from the TPS, to a control box. The blower will run at just the right speed to keep the air moving per what the engine requires throughout the rpm band. Then, at WOT, it kicks in and goes to full power, giving you the 5 psi or whatever the blower and engine is capable of handling. If you could find an alternate power source, other than the cars battery and alternator, that would eliminate the strains associated with this type of mod. Like [ion] C2 mentioned, the Thomas Knight version requires batteries in the trunk. You might be able to use a multiple capacitor setup, and still be ok using the standard alternator and battery. If you think about it, the caps would only have to hold enough charge to allow for a good 10 second burst of power to the blower. Make sense? Dont kill me on this one, I don't plan on actually doing it, just conversation.

[cherrington17]

but all the work required... your already at the cost/fabrication required for a proper turbo/supercharger setup...

if your gonna cut corners, do it right the first time and it won't matter.

[Redog]

Do you have a pic for this set-up?

[Ryan from Ohio]

You want velocity?

heres a better idea. Take the cylinder diameter and the cylinder stroke. Ok draw a nice picture of a cylinder. Use the diameter as diameter, stroke as length. Then find cubic inches.

Next multiple by 6.

Now figure out how many times they all move per 1 revolution.

Start multiplying.

Or do the easy test. At idle pull the hose off the TB. Put your hand about 2-3" away from it. Then realize NO STUPID FAN is going to be able to blow as much volume as the car is sucking in at idle let alone 5K RPM.

[Vinalero]

^^ you would do an awesome teacher, I would have understood the first time on anything :lol:

[Ryan from Ohio]

The average person just cant grasp the concept of whats going on inside a motor.

The pistons are well over 3" diameter, closer to 3 1/2" I bet. With over 3" of stroke. Thats a lot of air when you multiply by 6 and figure out how many times then for given RPM's.

Plus Ive had the air intake off and put my hand close just to grasp the idea myself. About sucked my hand off the bones... Be careful.

[01silveralero]

The average person just cant grasp the concept of whats going on inside a motor.

The pistons are well over 3" diameter, closer to 3 1/2" I bet. With over 3" of stroke. Thats a lot of air when you multiply by 6 and figure out how many times then for given RPM's.

Plus Ive had the air intake off and put my hand close just to grasp the idea myself. About sucked my hand off the bones... Be careful.

well not our car but a bugatti veyron, at around 230 mph, sucks in more air in one minute then we breathe in 4 days........according to what i just found we breathe in and out about 3000 gallons of oxygen/co2 every day... so for a veyron thats 12,000 gallons in one minute or 200 gallons every sec which is really high amount to try to picture

[Midgear]

pie ownz your faes.

[01silveralero]

what are you King Dedede or Kirby? I dont know about you but I dont inhale 200 gallons of air every second :lol:

ill rephrase it lol...fixed

[Redog]

well not our car but a bugatti veyron, at around 230 mph, sucks in more air in one minute then we breathe in 4 days........according to what i just found we breathe in and out about 3000 gallons of oxygen/co2 every day... so for a veyron thats 12,000 gallons in one minute or 200 gallons every sec which is really high amount to try to picture

Wow that's a lot of air. :eek:

Isn't that the $1,000,000 car with negtive gas milage

[Midgear]

its the planets fastest most luxurious production car..

and you people who say "well another car company made one that's faster!!" kiss my ass lol.. the bugatti is FAR more luxurious.. and it weighs thousands of pounds more than that "faster" supercar. I bet you alot of money the bugatti gets to 200 MPH faster than it.

at top speed.. the bugatti will burn an entire tank of gas in 12 minutes.. the tires are only good for 14 minutes of 250+ MPH.

1001 BHP, 976 lb ft of torque, W16 engine, 4 turbo chargers, 14 radiators and intercoolers, 4 wheel drive. it's the ultimate. this car has a key you stick into a slot on the driver side and the car will squat down about an inch, the suspension will stiffen, and the rear wing will fold down, making the car as aerodynamic as possible.

hell it even has a HP gauge on the dash.. telling you how many horses you're using

[cherrington17]

what are you King Dedede or Kirby? I dont know about you but I dont inhale 200 gallons of air every second :lol:

i'm pretty sure he was talking about the veyron...

[Midgear]

i'm pretty sure he was talking about the veyron...

he has since edited his post.. now I have to edit mine so I dont sound retarded lol

post edited lol

[WhiteV6]

Not every cylinder takes air in at once, so your math isn't correct. You also have pulses to deal with per rpm that effect how much air and fuel are sucked in, and how much exhaust is left as well. Its rathre complicated to know the precise amount of air being sucked in.

You won't gain boost with an electric vacuum/blower/whatever unless you have the electrical energy, as stated. You can however increase hp with a source that helps the engine breath without blocking it. Think Y pipe in the intake. Small gains for the hassle but it can and does work to a small extent.

Brad used to have an article that explained the electric needed to create boost in a motor (forget which they used). It basically said you would need a lot of batteries like the knight setup.

I do have flow numbers but it won't help much for this application.

[cherrington17]

^even if you cut the number of cynlinders in HALF (assume half are intaking while the others are combusting)...even that theory uses ALOT of air...

[01silveralero]

Not every cylinder takes air in at once, so your math isn't correct. You also have pulses to deal with per rpm that effect how much air and fuel are sucked in, and how much exhaust is left as well. Its rathre complicated to know the precise amount of air being sucked in.

You won't gain boost with an electric vacuum/blower/whatever unless you have the electrical energy, as stated. You can however increase hp with a source that helps the engine breath without blocking it. Think Y pipe in the intake. Small gains for the hassle but it can and does work to a small extent.

Brad used to have an article that explained the electric needed to create boost in a motor (forget which they used). It basically said you would need a lot of batteries like the knight setup.

I do have flow numbers but it won't help much for this application.

sure it is not totally accurate but it gives a rough estimate though.