View Full Version : WAI - Finall question
Alon Alero
06-09-2007, 01:24 PM
O.k so i've been reading and learning about those intakes...
a WAI may give me more air but it will be HOTTER air.
Alot of people say that even when theres more air flow u will not earn power and might even lose power becoz the engine likes colder air and hotter air won't really help.
Then other people say that even if the air is hotter its still better becoz there is more air flowing.
So basically my question is what and who is right... And when theres more air doesnt it also change the fuel thats injected to the engine? and if it does then doesnt it change the whole situation? It's just that 50% of the people out there say its good and 50% say its bad everywhere i go! its dirving me crazy.
Someone needs to clear this thing.
Thanx for your help.
anything is better then the stock airbox.
Alon Alero
06-09-2007, 01:55 PM
And u say that based on what?
I mean atleast the original air box takes colder air... so yeah it might not flow as good as a wai but with a drop in k&n filter it can improve the air coming in a bit...
jabartram
06-09-2007, 02:49 PM
the stock air box is heavily restricted, you can run a warm air intake, just come up with a way to isolate it from the underhood air temps with a shield of some sort, so it will pull from the fender opening more than the underhood air, i run a cold air, and personally it is a pain in the ass, i have 2 filters because it is a good amount work to remove and clean my air filter.
the stock air box has a silencer tube built in, it has approximately a 1 inch diameter opening, the warm/cold air intakes have a 3 inch opening, so comparison should easily seen.
alon iv been driven crazy in the same way,but have decided im going to go with the WAI with a heat shield like the one from docspeed,and maybe try to seal it of even better if i can.because the two common problems i keep hearing is the CAI sucks up water and takes a lot of time to clean the filter.i suggest you do the same.but that's my inexperienced opinion.
Alon Alero
06-09-2007, 08:10 PM
I will be glad, but we dont have most of those stuff here since its all so underground... I don't think i will find a wai with a heat shield and i dont think someone here can really point me to the right direction with it... YES i can order it from ebay and mess with it myself but it will be such a pain that i rather just put an inbox k&n and seal the deal (even tho its not as good as the cone-shaped filter)
The next step will be to find legal exhaust that will give me some noise too... thats going to be even harder!
One thing i read is that if i'll install the regular wai that they use over here inside the engine bay it will make me lose power even if there is more air coming in becuase the high temp. ruins everything and that includes the engine breathing.
the higher the temp. is the less air your engine is really breathing.
The law here is just really tight on cars... its not legal to change allmost anything except rims and the filter maybe.
Thanx 4 all the help.
Youngblood77
06-09-2007, 08:33 PM
IMHO a WAI is better than a drop-in K&N any day of the week. The only way to know for sure is to measure output of both the systems, but noone's able to do that. The basis for my opinion is heat soak. even if the K&N filter element CAN outflow a cone style filter, it's encased in heat-soaked plastic, connected to even more heat soaked plastic tubing. A WAI's tubing prone to heat soak, but ALOT less of it. Think of it this way: take cool air, and force it through 2 pipes heat soaked to 200*. 1 pipe is 3 feet long, the other is 1 foot long. Which one's gonna have cooler air coming out the other end?:cool: And THAT's not saying anything about the restrictions of the stock airbox design itself.
Bottom line: stock airbox designs are junk, no matter what filter's in there. CAI tubing is prone to heat soak, so the WAI/CAI battle resumes.......
joealmighty13
06-09-2007, 09:01 PM
U have to understand, the WAI will not make you lose power. Yes it is warmer there, but theres still a greater volume of air coming into the engine. so theres still power to be had regardless of heat. Not to mention the engine runs at a set temp anyways cause of the thermostat. So CAI or WAI get one of them, just get rid of the airbox.
redrider07
06-09-2007, 09:35 PM
Honestly, I think WAI are junk. Does not matter how much air you are flowing, the engine can only breath so much. So, HOW can warm air possibly be better than the stock cold air box...IT CAN'T.... Warm air=less power period.That is why, our cars come stock with a cold air filtering in! So, I would get the Doctor Speed Cold Air Box, which isolates the filter from the engine eat. I have a 180 degree t-stat..and I plan on getting either a Cold Air Box from Doctor Speed..or a CAI of ebay.
CAI would be a pain in the ass to clean...so I am leaning towards a Cold Air Box from Doctor Speed :)
billytheman1188
06-09-2007, 11:24 PM
CAI would be a pain in the ass to clean...so I am leaning towards a Cold Air Box from Doctor Speed :)
good choice, i have a cai, its not really a pain in the ass to get to it, but its just annoying trying to get the filter back on......but i will deal with it.
CAI was easy to clean, all u have to do is jack ur car up, take the driver front wheel off, peel the wheel well cover off and there you have it
Alon Alero
06-10-2007, 04:44 AM
[QUOTE=Youngblood77;285167]IMHO a WAI is better than a drop-in K&N any day of the week. The only way to know for sure is to measure output of both the systems, but noone's able to do that.
Someone from here measured the INPUT of both systems (with speciall equipment) and showd us how warm the air that the wai will get is (if u want i can bring his results on pictures that he took)... I know the k&n drop-in will never be the same as the intake but if u just put the regular intakes that they sell here (and its not like doctor speed's intakes) and not modify it to resist heat most of the chances are that U WILL lose power.
telcart
06-10-2007, 12:30 PM
Hey,
I just bought this cold air intake kit, with the K&N cone filter (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140122457772&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:CA:11)
It came with some lousy instructions that look like they were drawn on a napkin. But basically, it says to remove "the piece of plastic" on the inside of the fender. So I removed my air box, searched around and found no good place to run a the thick aluminum tube through. So right now I've just got the cone sitting a few inches away from the engine and this definitely isn't going to allow for much "cold air". Does anybody know where it's supposed to go?
joealmighty13
06-10-2007, 04:08 PM
Honestly, I think WAI are junk. Does not matter how much air you are flowing, the engine can only breath so much. So, HOW can warm air possibly be better than the stock cold air box...IT CAN'T.... Warm air=less power period.That is why, our cars come stock with a cold air filtering in! So, I would get the Doctor Speed Cold Air Box, which isolates the filter from the engine eat. I have a 180 degree t-stat..and I plan on getting either a Cold Air Box from Doctor Speed..or a CAI of ebay.
CAI would be a pain in the ass to clean...so I am leaning towards a Cold Air Box from Doctor Speed :)
Red im having a hard time trusting your input there. Arent you the one who told us CAI's were pointless cause they lowered the temp of your engine, and you only gained one horse per 10 degrees. Anyways the WAI's are not junk because its simply better flow, the engine is taking in more air easier from all sides of the cone filter, not just one side of a box. The restriction from a box alone is enough for most of us to switch to a CAI or WAI. Also with a heat shield isolating the cone from other radiant heat, the air on the cone side is significantly cooler. Not CAI cold, but still cool enough for power gains.
heres the link to the other post:
http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16691
redrider07
06-10-2007, 04:52 PM
yeah....I guess I did say that! I was not trying to be negative. I agree with what you are saying though! I guess anything is better than stock air box, but it just makes more sense to me either getting a CAI or Cold Air Box. WAI would maybe help a little, but it is still drawing in HOT engine air.
I will probably go with the Cold Air Box...easier to install and clean :)
Plus, I would think it is kind of the best of both worlds.....more low-end power...but still isolated from engine heat:)
Later, guys.
Alon Alero
06-10-2007, 05:53 PM
yeah....I guess I did say that! I was not trying to be negative. I agree with what you are saying though! I guess anything is better than stock air box, but it just makes more sense to me either getting a CAI or Cold Air Box. WAI would maybe help a little, but it is still drawing in HOT engine air.
I will probably go with the Cold Air Box...easier to install and clean :)
Plus, I would think it is kind of the best of both worlds.....more low-end power...but still isolated from engine heat:)
Later, guys.
What do u mean by a "Cold air box"?
Spilner521
06-10-2007, 11:02 PM
You guys do realize that air circulates under the hood when the car's moving. The engine bay is not an air tight sealed compartment like everyone is making it out to be. Cool oncoming air will come in under the hood and around the headlights. So a WAI will increase power over the restrictive stock airbox.
A better alternative to a true CAI is this cold air box everyone's talking about. Basically it's a WAI with the cone filter inside a sealed box. From that box runs a 3" tube down into the fender where a normal CAI would run. So it's pretty much a true CAI that places the filter out of the direct path of water and debris, and also allows the owner to simply pop off the top of the box to remove and clean the filter.
[ion] C2
06-10-2007, 11:14 PM
^Isn't that basically like the stock? (minus the cone filter)
clutch1
06-10-2007, 11:28 PM
Well ti'd have a much bigger pickup tube and wouldn't be as tangled, I'd imagine.
Alon Alero
06-11-2007, 01:59 AM
You guys do realize that air circulates under the hood when the car's moving. The engine bay is not an air tight sealed compartment like everyone is making it out to be. Cool oncoming air will come in under the hood and around the headlights. So a WAI will increase power over the restrictive stock airbox.
It doesnt matter, it's always hot inside the engine bay (after starting the car it takes 5 min for it to heat up) and thats a fact.
If u place the filter inside the engine bay in a hot place it will suck up much warmer air... for the cold air box, never heard of those, don't think we have one of those around here anyway.
Spilner521
06-11-2007, 02:06 AM
It doesnt matter, it's always hot inside the engine bay (after starting the car it takes 5 min for it to heat up) and thats a fact.
If u place the filter inside the engine bay in a hot place it will suck up much warmer air... for the cold air box, never heard of those, don't think we have one of those around here anyway.
Yes I agree it'll be warmer air than a true CAI but a WAI will still draw in SOME fresh air and it'll be much less restrictive than the stock intake, hence you get a power increase.
Alon Alero
06-11-2007, 02:12 AM
Yes I agree it'll be warmer air than a true CAI but a WAI will still draw in SOME fresh air and it'll be much less restrictive than the stock intake, hence you get a power increase.
That truly depends on how u install it and where u place it, but it is possible.
Anyway i gave up on the wai since it's just a pain to get a good one and install it in the right way over here...
Ebay sellers really like to ripp off huh?! some dude asked me for 37$ just to ship a f*cking drop in filter!
Spilner521
06-11-2007, 02:13 AM
C2;285261']^Isn't that basically like the stock? (minus the cone filter)
Not so much. It's basically taking a CAI (long tube into the fender with filter on the end) and bringing the filter into the engine bay inside a box. Since the tubes before and after the filter is the same diameter, there's little to no restriction breathing through the air box, plus you get cooler outside air without placing the filter in a spot that can draw in water and is hard to get at. Also, like Clutch said, the tubes are smooth instead of the corrugated rubber stock tubing.
I drew up a quick picture. Instead of a CAI (A) you have the box (B) and maybe even use one of those velocity stacks on the end, like I drew:
billytheman1188
06-11-2007, 09:27 AM
Anyway i gave up on the wai since it's just a pain to get a good one and install it in the right way over here...
Installing an intake is the easiest performance mod to do. its not hard at all, so go buy a WAI or CAI, w/e you want, and install it. Its not rocket science
Alon Alero
06-11-2007, 10:26 AM
No it isn't, but as I said i need to find the right place and way to install it + i need to order all the parts from USA ... if u just stuck the regular filter near a very hot place in the engine bay it can just harm u and right now i don't wanna mess with that... maybe in the future... I really don't know how u guys over there are doing it but here i've been hearing too many people saying that the intake did low down their preformance and they switched to the original box.
As for the cai - thats not an option here because it's not legal.
man alon, you have a thick head, if you dont believe it will give u more power then do dont the mod. go out and waste 5x the amount on something that if not going to give u anything better then a $25 WAI cone filter
Alon Alero
06-11-2007, 12:54 PM
man alon, you have a thick head, if you dont believe it will give u more power then do dont the mod. go out and waste 5x the amount on something that if not going to give u anything better then a $25 WAI cone filter
Thick head? i think its the opposite... if i would have a thick head i would just go for it the first time i visited that poor shop that wanted to ripp me off... u have to understand that i've talked to so many people and too much of them explained me why it shouldnt work here...
and what did u mean by saying "waste 5x on something that is not going to give u anything?" i just planned on getting a drop in filter that is cheaper.. i know it will never be same as an intake but atleast it's something!
billytheman1188
06-11-2007, 01:26 PM
and what did u mean by saying "waste 5x on something that is not going to give u anything?" i just planned on getting a drop in filter that is cheaper.. i know it will never be same as an intake but atleast it's something!
a drop in K&N filter for the stock airbox is $40. idk how much it is near you, but around here its 40. what gr1m is trying to say is that you can get a wai for $25 instead of a filter that is going to cost more.
if your worried about the heat and the filter....go to doctorspeed.com and order the cold air box.
telcart
06-11-2007, 05:25 PM
Hey,
I just bought this cold air intake kit, with the K&N cone filter (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140122457772&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:CA:11)
It came with some lousy instructions that look like they were drawn on a napkin. But basically, it says to remove "the piece of plastic" on the inside of the fender. So I removed my air box, searched around and found no good place to run a the thick aluminum tube through. So right now I've just got the cone sitting a few inches away from the engine and this definitely isn't going to allow for much "cold air". Does anybody know where it's supposed to go?
Bump
Can anybody answer me?
SIUlero
06-11-2007, 05:42 PM
What diameter is the tube?
Alon Alero
06-11-2007, 06:35 PM
Getting a WAI here costs about 125$.
I can get a drop in from ebay in less than 40$.
strtrydr
06-12-2007, 03:57 AM
I don't think you are understanding what Spilner and everyone else has been trying to tell you. You WILL NOT lose any power at all ... you will actually gain a little bit of power. To understand this you need to forget the temperature ... yes it matters but you can't seem to think correctly by including it. The WAI flows a lot more air than the Stock ever would therefore more power. the increased flow means more oxygen which means more power. Just get the WAI ... trust us. I have CAI but currently have it setup as a WAI.
Basically it is like this ...
Stock: Colder than a WAI; Located in fender well with Stagnate air; Extremely Restrictive.
WAI: Warmer than both setups; Located in Engine Bay with Fresh moving Air; Minor Restrictions from the Corogated Rubber tube between the UIM & the MAF - Replace with a tube for even less restriction.
CAI: Colder than both Setups; Located behind Left Fog Lamp exposed to direct air; hardly any restiction since Rubeer tube between UIM & MAF is deleted and replace with a tube which is included in the kit.
Alon Alero
06-12-2007, 05:26 AM
I do understand that... but I did read and hear alot of info on how the temp and the location does matter... this is point less, i've decided to go for the drop-in for now.
Dont u get it??? when u say U WILL NOT LOSE ANY POWER there are people right now saying to me U WILL LOSE POWER if u don't costumize it to sit in the most coolest place with a heat shield.
strtrydr
06-12-2007, 06:21 AM
listen man ... i didn't mean to come off there as a d1ck but I was speaking from my personal experience.
the drop-in will be good for extra filtering protection over your stock filter but really no increase in power. I had bought one shortly after I got the car and now i wish I would have just used that money to contribute to my CAI.
.02
how would you lose power if your getting more air into the engine? and $125 for a facking cone filter? LOL where do you live, and why couldnt you just buy a cone filter off ebay for lets say $10? also i was talking about the doctor speed cold air box when i was saying 5x the price.
billytheman1188
06-12-2007, 09:26 AM
ah ok gr1m, i didnt know what you were talking about, i was just takin a guess! but instead of spending $40 on a filter, buy a cheap intake off ebay. the people who say warm air intakes suck, and they fuck up your engine, are the people who must not be able to install them the right way, cause a lot of people on here have them and they haven't complained.
billytheman1188
06-12-2007, 09:26 AM
I don't think you are understanding what Spilner and everyone else has been trying to tell you. You WILL NOT lose any power at all ... you will actually gain a little bit of power. To understand this you need to forget the temperature ... yes it matters but you can't seem to think correctly by including it. The WAI flows a lot more air than the Stock ever would therefore more power. the increased flow means more oxygen which means more power. Just get the WAI ... trust us. I have CAI but currently have it setup as a WAI.
Basically it is like this ...
Stock: Colder than a WAI; Located in fender well with Stagnate air; Extremely Restrictive.
WAI: Warmer than both setups; Located in Engine Bay with Fresh moving Air; Minor Restrictions from the Corogated Rubber tube between the UIM & the MAF - Replace with a tube for even less restriction.
CAI: Colder than both Setups; Located behind Left Fog Lamp exposed to direct air; hardly any restiction since Rubeer tube between UIM & MAF is deleted and replace with a tube which is included in the kit.
Very good explanation btw
Frostbite545
06-12-2007, 10:03 AM
Whoever told you that you'll lose power with the WAI is wrong. From 32* to 95* weather, with my CAI, I didnt gain much time on my 1/4 mile. Temperature does have an effect, just not as much as you seem to think. Now, go take a straw and blow through it as hard as you can. Next, take a paper towel roll and do the same. Thats the amount of the airflow difference between stock and an intake. MORE AIR = MORE POWER. The stock air box sucks for air flow, even with a drop in.
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