Just curious (turbo question)

[sorrowfulkiller]

If I wanted to put a turbo in my alero... what would I have to do so that the engine could handle it? Like how much modifications would I have to have at certain psi's?

I'm debating whether I want to do a NA alero or turboed... all depending on what I would all have to do. Also... whats the differences in exhaust for a turboed alero vs a naturally aspirated one?

[alerocar01]

sounds like you need to talk to blackjack

[jackal2000]

it all depends on how much psi you plan to run. its pretty safe to run up to 8psi on stock internals.

[sorrowfulkiller]

it all depends on how much psi you plan to run. its pretty safe to run up to 8psi on stock internals.

Wow, I didn't think it would run that much stock... now if I wanted to run say.... 12 would I have to do major engine work?

[Redog]

I heard 6 psi is a good safe number.

The stock bottom end can handle 10 psi, people say 8 to play it safe. 8 psi is a lot.

If you go to 12, you'll probably need to look into forged pistons and maybe better vavles in the heads. Def stonger head gaskets

[alerored04]

Hell no. Germ, with the turbo 3400 in his monte is running bone stock internals at 320 hp. The tranny went long before the motor. I will be running 9 psi on a slightly ported motor with stock valves, im more worried about the transmission. Blackjack would be the person to talk to though. You will need custom turbo headers, currently there isnt a person that makes them. Those will be the major setbacks for the project. A custom tune will also be required, meaning you will need to buy DHP powertunr. I would say past 9 psi you will want to consider some motor work. past 12 psi it will be required. But before you turbo you will need ported intakes and heads. Your next best mod would be LS1 valve springs on the heads. For exhaust you will want at minimum of 2.5" turbo back. past 5 psi you will want 3" exhaust. Stronger head gaskets would be nice but not required until you blow one. Unless you need to get that deep into the motor beforehand its not worth all that work.

[BlackJack]

I drive daily at 12psi, stock bottom end. It's not the bottom end you need to worry about right now. At different PSI levels, what you need to be concerned with is your fuel delivery and tune.

6psi is REPORTED to be safe on a stock tune.
8psi requires a tune
10-12psi requires larger injectors and a tune
15psi "recommends" lager injectors, stronger fuel pump, AFPR, and beefier headgaskets (and tune).
you'll also need a MAF capable of a higher frequency range at this point, as well as a 2-bar MAP or better.

Now, transmission comes into play here in the next list.

6-8 psi is ok on a low mileage transmission of 2002 and older.
if you have a 2003 or newer, I've been running 12psi daily and spiking occasionally to 15psi on stock tranny. I can almost guarantee that an '02 or older will not handle 12psi daily with no modifications.

available mods for the 4t45e are:
Raybestos Blue Plate clutches
Limited Slip Posi
Billet aluminum accumulator piston
reworked valve body
higher stall speed torque converter
send the steels in for kolene treatment
performance bearings

This should make an '02 or older handle 15psi with no problem.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Thanks for all the information... I'll look into it a bit more before I figure out if I'll turbo it or not.

Blackjack, my car has like 88k on it right now, so if I would run say... 6-8 psi, would you think I would need to get my transmission worked on a bit? My tranny has never slipped since I've had the car (about 9 months or so) and has nice hard shifts WOT and otherwise fairly soft shifts.

[BlackJack]

nah, I'd just roll with it if you're staying down at 6-8psi

[alerored04]

im keepin mine stock til it eats itself. Then its time for a nice rebuild.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Thanks for the insight everyone, I think I will turbo it then, first of course I have to upgrade a few things that are first priority... namely, struts, springs, brakes and of course the limg xD

[sorrowfulkiller]

blackjack... one more question, what kind of turbo did you use?
Also, what did your build all include?

[billytheman1188]

damn i didnt know we could run 6-8psi on a stock engine.

I would love to get a turbo, but i thought i would need to do a lot of internal work. well it looks like i might be getting one in the near future.:rolleyes2:

[BlackJack]

above 6psi, you WILL need a tune though, Billy.

Now, for what kind of turbo I used, and what kind of build did I do.....unless you're thinking in terms of 80% drag race and 20% street, I wouldn't recommend following what I'm doing.

I'm using a T70 turbo, but for anyone that is just wanting good street performance, I recommend a T3/T4 hybrid. If you want it quick down low, and slower up top, then go 70, but if you want it slower down low and more legs on top end, then get an 83.

For what all has been done, here's a couple of little threads for you to peruse...
And The Fun Begins (http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11588)
And the Fun Continues..... (http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14339)
Turbo in the final stretch..... (http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14695)
Turbo Install Complete! (http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14826)

[sorrowfulkiller]

but for anyone that is just wanting good street performance, I recommend a T3/T4 hybrid.Install Complete![/URL]

Thats the exact kind I was looking at before this too:lol:
Thanks for the links btw:coolio:

As for things to make it work though, what changes would I need to make to the intake and such? For instance I know you got a better MAF and a bigger throttle body... but at lower psi like 6-8 which is what I'm looking at, would having such changes be worth it?


I guess what I'm really asking is, what would I all need for a 6-8 psi turbo setup? What would be the COMPLETE parts list for such a turbo application?

BTW I'm not doing this for a good 5 months or more so I just want to get all the information possible before I go ahead with contacting people to fabricate parts and whatnot without the proper information... so if I'm sounding like a noob with all these questions please tell me... It's just that I know almost nothing about turbos through experience and I most certainly don't know much about turboing an Alero.

[BlackJack]

no, at anything under 10psi, I recommend using a stock MAF. You also dont need to spend alot of money on aftermarket intake manifolds, TB or any of that other stuff.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Alright thanks :)

[HazMatt24]

damn i didnt know we could run 6-8psi on a stock engine.

I would love to get a turbo, but i thought i would need to do a lot of internal work. well it looks like i might be getting one in the near future.:rolleyes2:

:badidea: the last thing the roads need is you with more power. You can't even follow directions, we still are waiting to see your sisters

[alerored04]

Like BJ said, all that should really be neccessary is some minor port work. And below 8 psi you wont need even that. The only thing porting will do is smooth out the airflow and make your turbo more efficient. Not gonna harm anything without as long as you keep it mild.

[sorrowfulkiller]

xD Wow, it's just funny how you guys always make fun of billy

[kwhauck]

and i just don't understand why cuz billy's the man......lol

[Kanyon]

Wow, so if someone wanted to get a basic setup to run 6psi ish, what all would be required? Turbo, Headers, exhaust, what else? Also any links to the best place to buy?

[sorrowfulkiller]

Now, what about intercoolers? Since I'll probably only ever go up to MAYBE 12 psi, how big should the intercooler be?

[BlackJack]

since even a small intercooler has a good effect at these low numbers, you should probably choose based on what will fit in the opening below your bumper.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Alright, I'll have to figure that out after I get my body kit then, I'll also be getting the AAS kitI think that pretty much answers all my questions, Thanks alot :)

[sorrowfulkiller]

_____

[sorrowfulkiller]

Alright... two more questions :)

Which would be better for my application, an internal or external wastegate?

Where can I find a boost timer that'll work for an alero.... also, where will the wires need to be connected?

[BlackJack]

simplicity, internal. for power, external.

turbo timer will usually include instructions or wiring diagram.

[sorrowfulkiller]

so for the wastegates... they can be changed to open at different psi's right? like will I have to buy a different spring or can I just tighten a screw or loosen a screw?

[BlackJack]

either one you choose. You can buy a lighter or heavier spring, or you can restrict the amount of boost to the port on the wastegate which will cause it to open later (higher boost amount)

[sorrowfulkiller]

Alright, so what about sensors? Which Sensors will I have to move? and where are the "best" places to put them?

[BlackJack]

you will have to find another way to deal with your IAT sensor for one, since it just lightly snaps into a rubber grommet. Once you push boost through, you'll likely pop it out. Are you going stock programming and staying under 6psi, or are you going all out and buying a tuning device also?

[Spilner521]

you will have to find another way to deal with your IAT sensor for one, since it just lightly snaps into a rubber grommet. Once you push boost through, you'll likely pop it out. Are you going stock programming and staying under 6psi, or are you going all out and buying a tuning device also?
I hope you don't mean "stock programming" as "stock fuel system". I just don't want this guy to be misled at all thinking his stock fuel system will support any boost. I know you know what you meant Blackjack, just want to make sure anyone who doesn't know gets the whole story.

Even with low boost (6psi or less) you still need some way to add fuel while in boost. The stock fuel system wasn't meant to support any more air than the engine can suck in itself, so when you start forcing in all kinds of more air without adding any extra fuel, bad things happen.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Well I'll probably be running about at 6 psi or so to start. Eventually I want to be up to 12 psi max though. What did you do with your IAT sensor?

And fuel wise, I'll nee a fuel pressure regulator and injectors... what else though?

[sorrowfulkiller]

What about an oil return line? Is it pretty much the same as a normal oil line?

[BlackJack]

oil return is slightly larger diameter than your feed line, and should be piped into a fitting welded into the side of the oil pan.

With the exception of injectors, I am currently running a 100% stock fuel system.

[Spilner521]

Well I'll probably be running about at 6 psi or so to start. Eventually I want to be up to 12 psi max though. What did you do with your IAT sensor?

And fuel wise, I'll nee a fuel pressure regulator and injectors... what else though?
The intake manifold I swapped in for the stock one had hole in it specifically for the IAT sensor. It was actually made for a screw in sensor, but since I don't have a screw in sensor, I took the sensor out of the rubber grommet it goes in, stuck it in the hole in the manifold and used JB Weld to glue it in. It's all smoothed out nice and painted over so it looks like it supposed to be there.

As for the fuel mods, you'll need larger injectors but not necessarily an aftermarket FPR. You will need something to control the injectors because if you just swap them out for the smaller stockers, you'll flood the engine. I'm sure BlackJack will chime in on what you can use to tune the injectors on the V6.

Here's a pic of my IAT sensor:

[sorrowfulkiller]

I'm thinking you used DHP, correct Blackjack?

What is working with DHP like? Does it take very long to learn and understand?

Thanks A LOT guys, You've been a great help so far.

[BlackJack]

easy as pie to work with. just takes patience to learn the software and how to read scans and interpret into changes that need to be made to your tune.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Good, because I plan on doing the tune wholly by myself... That having been said I have to go to school now x_x

[sorrowfulkiller]

Back to the oil return line, is the oil pan aluminum? I would check now but I'm in class >_>

Whats the main diference between welding it in and screw the oil return line in? Of course the welded would have less of a chance to leak but will a screwed in one work just as well if it was done properly?

[Cliff8928]

Yes, the oil pan is aluminum.

[Spilner521]

Back to the oil return line, is the oil pan aluminum? I would check now but I'm in class >_>

Whats the main diference between welding it in and screw the oil return line in? Of course the welded would have less of a chance to leak but will a screwed in one work just as well if it was done properly?
Like you said, a welded fitting would not leak and you could have a chance of a leak with a screwed in fitting, but as long as you properly wrap the threads with teflon tape, you shouldn't have a problem. The only problem I can see with a screw in fitting would be the oil pan being too thin to properly tap it. I don't know how thick the V6 oil pan is so once again, BlackJack or someone else will have to answer this one.

[kwhauck]

don't know right now but will this weekend.....

[sorrowfulkiller]

btw guys, I found a "incomplete" turbo kit on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ALL-GRAND-AM-T3T4-AR50-CUSTOM-TURBO-CHARGER-KIT-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ36475QQihZ002QQitem Z120073733188QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

I'm thinking the price is jacked up a bit because I'm seeing turbos on ebay go for 100-200 and I'm pretty sure that the intercooler tubing won't work with an alero.

If I would buy everything seperately could I get all this for less?

[BlackJack]

disclaimer however, one wrong tweak on the tune, and BOOM.

Also, about the drain fitting. You get a threaded bung, drill the oil pan, weld the bung on, and then screw a fitting into it. I'll see if I can find a pic of it.

[sorrowfulkiller]

I'll be doing the tuning as I go, making sure it accepts the tune well before adding more psi.

I'll probably need some help on tuning though. Since I've never done anything like this before.


I think I know what your talking about, pretty much get a peice with a female screw and weld it onto the oil pan so I could just screw an oil line in?



I picture would be great though;)

[BlackJack]

dont know. I can tell you this.....no one can "pre-tune" your car accurately. THe more boost you add, the more risk you take, and the more accurately you have to tune.

That's the reason I can't tune your car from where i'm located. I'm at 4,700 feet altitude, and the tune here will not work at your altitude, because the oxygen content of the air at different altitudes is different, where if I tune here and race at sea level, I will run lean (boom). If I tune at sea level and race at altitude, then I will run rich.

[Spilner521]

One of the main reasons I like extra injectors: VERY easy to tune. With the turn of a knob and a glance at the AEM wideband O2 gauge I can adjust how much fuel the extra injectors spray. No base maps to tune or larger injectors that won't idle properly, and when not in boost the engine still runs on stock injectors and stock pcm tune. And if there's any elevation or climate change, I'll see the difference in A/F ratios on the wideband and just turn the knob a little more. Almost too easy.

[sorrowfulkiller]

extra injectors? I've never even heard of anyone using extra injectors... how the hell did you set that up?

[sorrowfulkiller]

nevermind... read up on it, I'd rather change the pcm...

Can I keep factory pcm and use the powertuner or do I have to buy a dhp pcm and then the powertuner?

Will I need a wideband O2 sensor?

How did you tune it blackjack? like did you just figure out at what rpm or throttle position how much fuel you will need or did you go by an A/F gauge, then change the A/F mixture accordingly?

I'm thinking I'll have to tune at a very low psi and work up from there, adding 1-2 psi at a time, correct?
Speaking of, what is a good psi to start to tuning?

[sorrowfulkiller]

You two should seriously make an faq on here for people thinking about turbo applications. Because I'm sure just about all of these questions I'm asking will come up from someone else eventually.

BTW if anyone else is reading this thread, I just bought the book Maximum Boost... i haven't gotten to looking at the book much but it has a huge amount of info. I figured that it would be a good idea to read up on it more.

[Spilner521]

nevermind... read up on it, I'd rather change the pcm...

Can I keep factory pcm and use the powertuner or do I have to buy a dhp pcm and then the powertuner?

Will I need a wideband O2 sensor?

How did you tune it blackjack? like did you just figure out at what rpm or throttle position how much fuel you will need or did you go by an A/F gauge, then change the A/F mixture accordingly?

I'm thinking I'll have to tune at a very low psi and work up from there, adding 1-2 psi at a time, correct?
Speaking of, what is a good psi to start to tuning?
In order to tune it yourself you'll need to know how much fuel is going into the engine at any given moment, so yes you'll need a wideband. Just start at the wastegate boost pressure so you get an idea of what you're doing then add boost from there with a boost controller, adding fuel at the same time. Just keep an eye on the wideband A/F gauge. It's better to run a little too rich at first than too lean. Right now, as soon as the turbo spools, my extra injector setup holds a very consistant 11.7:1 all the way to redline. This is considered a good, safe A/F ratio in boost. But remember, wth the larger injectors you'll still need to tune them to run 14.7:1 out of boost.

And I'm just curious...why would you rather change the pcm than use extra injectors?

[Spilner521]

You two should seriously make an faq on here for people thinking about turbo applications. Because I'm sure just about all of these questions I'm asking will come up from someone else eventually.

BTW if anyone else is reading this thread, I just bought the book Maximum Boost... i haven't gotten to looking at the book much but it has a huge amount of info. I figured that it would be a good idea to read up on it more.
I wouldn't mind at all contributing to a turbo FAQ. I didn't know anything when I started and I taught myself pretty much everything. It'd be nice for other guys (or girls) to have something to start from if they're serious about going turbo.

Maximum Boost...lots of good info. I don't own it but I've read through it a few times. It's perfect for understanding all the parts of a turbo system and how they all work together to make power.

[BlackJack]

ok, back to the oil return drain line and how the bung is welded in.

Here's a pic that shows where it is welded in, and the fitting threaded in:http://www.groomlakelabs.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2131&g2_serialNumber=5

[sorrowfulkiller]

And I'm just curious...why would you rather change the pcm than use extra injectors?

Well for one I'm much more comfortable with changing things via a computer, been working with them most of my life, so something like editing a PCM should come fairly easy to me.... whereas adding injectors is gray area to me... I have no clue how I would manage flow or exactly how they work... but right now I'm completely open to any ideas and I'd really like to hear your setup works and how it runs.

If you could explain to me how it works that would be awesome. Like for instance what would be needed, where one would put the 7th injector, how to control the flow from it, ect...

I've heard of such things on older buick regals like the 1988 with the turbo, where the 7th injector also cooled the setup because it introduced the gas which acted to cool the air coming into the engine while also adding gas when the turbo was runing, is that pretty much the same concept that you have going on your car?

[sorrowfulkiller]

ok, back to the oil return drain line and how the bung is welded in.

Here's a pic that shows where it is welded in, and the fitting threaded in


Thanks a lot for the image, I really never knew it'd be that easy to do... drill, weld, screw xD Perfect place for it though since it's right by the filter, atleast then you can check for leaks when you change oil.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Alright what about detonation blackjack? did you experience detonation at all (ie knocking) before you tuned? What about while you tuned? Did you just retard ignition timing a couple degrees if you heard it and left the timing at that?

What about injectors, if I'm going for a max of 12 psi, what size would I be looking at here? I want to get the maximum power out of that 12 psi.

[BlackJack]

at 12psi, you'll need 42.5# injectors.
yes I got KR like mad, and no, I got rid of most of it by adding fuel first, tightening stuff on the engine second, upgraded my fuel octane, and then what very tiny amound of KR was left I tuned out by timing.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Does dhp power tuner allow for realtime scanning for kr then?

[Spilner521]

Well for one I'm much more comfortable with changing things via a computer, been working with them most of my life, so something like editing a PCM should come fairly easy to me.... whereas adding injectors is gray area to me... I have no clue how I would manage flow or exactly how they work... but right now I'm completely open to any ideas and I'd really like to hear your setup works and how it runs.

If you could explain to me how it works that would be awesome. Like for instance what would be needed, where one would put the 7th injector, how to control the flow from it, ect...

I've heard of such things on older buick regals like the 1988 with the turbo, where the 7th injector also cooled the setup because it introduced the gas which acted to cool the air coming into the engine while also adding gas when the turbo was runing, is that pretty much the same concept that you have going on your car?
You're on the right track, but instead of 1 extra injector to feed all the cylinders, I have 1 injector per cylinder mounted in the runners of the intake manifold right behind the stock injector.

I have the injector bosses welded into each intake runner to hold the injectors. I put a T fitting in the fuel feed line and the extra fuel line feeds a block which has 4 seperate fuel lines coming out of it to feed the extra injectors.

The injectors are controlled by the SDS Extra Injector Controller...here's the website: http://www.sdsefi.com/eic.html. Besides the EIC, the engine runs on stock injectors, stock pcm and stock tune. When just crusing and not in boost, you'd never be able to tell the car was modded, it idles and drives exaclty like stock. When you push the gas harder and the turbo spools, that's when the extra injectors kick in and add the extra fuel. That's it. It's that easy.

The only tuning you have to do is turn 2 knobs on the controller: The vacuum/boost level the injectors come in and how much fuel they inject. So you set it to 0 vacuum/boost and then just drive around watching the wideband and figure out where the other knob needs to be until you get your target A/F ratio.

I have mine set just before 0 (-2 vacuum) so that it starts the injectors a little before I get into boost. I did this because I was getting some hot EGT's (most likely very light knock/detonation) right as the engine transitioned from vacuum to boost, and starting the fuel early took care of it.

If you went with this setup, you could do the same thing I did (1 injector per cylinder) or you could add 2 larger injectors in the charge pipe spraying into the throttle body. Both setups will work the same way. I don't believe SDS makes the EIC with 6 injector plugs for a 6 cylinder, but it pulses all the injectors at the same time, so you'd just have to get 2 extra plugs and some wires and splice them into the existing wires on the EIC.

And last but not least, a couple pictures: My engine and the EIC. The green light on the EIC turns on when the injectors turn on at your desired setting. The other lights show the injector duty cycle. For those who don't know what that means, it shows (by percentage) how hard the injector is working. Basically, the more the injector can flow, the less is has to pulse to get the desired amount of fuel. You try to stay away from 100% duty cycle because that's when the injectors are maxxed out.

[MixtapeMessiah]

God I love that set up dude, still got any parts left over from ur 2.4?

[BlackJack]

Does dhp power tuner allow for realtime scanning for kr then?

yes, it does. However, I recommend if you want to do some serious tuning, you should get a wideband O2 as an additional accessory. Factory O2 gives A/F readings at a rate comparable to a dialup modem connection versus cable internet, just to paint a picture. Your KR will be real time, but you can tune better by using wideband O2 to make your fueling adjustments

[sorrowfulkiller]

I really like how that works, I'm thinking that if I would go with that way though I would definetely put it before the TB because if I would get the splicing screwed up who knows what would happen. So where did you mount that box in your car? Also, you think having two injectors by the TB would matter too much like do you think it would cause problems?

I'll probably decide which way I'll go later on though. because I'm not sure which I'll be more comfortable with, now that I understand how the extra injectors work.




and BlackJack, I'll definetely get a wideband sensor either way I go because I've heard the wideband can't handle the psi above about 2.





So I'm thinking that I'll get a 3 gauge A pillar too, with an A/F guage, a Boost Guage and a tranny temp guage. I'll probably get my 45e rebuilt with aftermarket parts once I'm ready to go up to 10-12 psi, but in the meantime I'll have to use the tranny temp guage to find out if anything's wrong.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Oh, and BlackJack, does the powertuner support editing the limp home mode? Because if I do any travelling with the car (cross country) I'd like to have it go into a custom limp home setting if I would experience knocks at a lower altitude. Would it be better to run the normal limp home mode in this case?

[BlackJack]

and BlackJack, I'll definetely get a wideband sensor either way I go because I've heard the wideband can't handle the psi above about 2.

ER???

[Spilner521]

God I love that set up dude, still got any parts left over from ur 2.4?
All the parts from my 2.4 are still on my 2.4 which is currently still powering my car. Give me a little while. I'm shooting for early summer for the fully built Eco to be swapped and running.

But I do have the secret cams for sale for anyone with the 2.4...

[Spilner521]

I really like how that works, I'm thinking that if I would go with that way though I would definetely put it before the TB because if I would get the splicing screwed up who knows what would happen. So where did you mount that box in your car? Also, you think having two injectors by the TB would matter too much like do you think it would cause problems?

I'll probably decide which way I'll go later on though. because I'm not sure which I'll be more comfortable with, now that I understand how the extra injectors work.

Before the throttle body is much easier to set up and will work well, but mounting the injectors in the runners will work better because it'll mix the fuel much better. It's up to you which way you prefer. I could show you how to splice the wires if you choose 6 injectors (which I think is the better option). It's really not at all difficult.
and BlackJack, I'll definetely get a wideband sensor either way I go because I've heard the wideband can't handle the psi above about 2.

And what does this mean?????

[Spilner521]

So I'm thinking that I'll get a 3 gauge A pillar too, with an A/F guage, a Boost Guage and a tranny temp guage. I'll probably get my 45e rebuilt with aftermarket parts once I'm ready to go up to 10-12 psi, but in the meantime I'll have to use the tranny temp guage to find out if anything's wrong.
I have AEM wideband A/F gauge, boost and EGT(exhaust gas temperature) on my A pillar. Here's a picture just to give you an idea:

[MixtapeMessiah]

how much for the cams?

Just let me know when u do swap out the 2.4, Im interesting in a lot of parts you got

[Spilner521]

how much for the cams?

Just let me know when u do swap out the 2.4, Im interesting in a lot of parts you got
http://www.aleromod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16516 < Go here for the cams. I'll definitely let you know about the parts when they come off.

[sorrowfulkiller]

oops I meant I've heard the stock sensor can't handle over 2 psi:lol: Sorry my mistake

[sorrowfulkiller]

Wow, I'd love to get my interior peices carbon fiber... SEXAY! :)

[spyhunter]

I HAVE THE SAME WIDEBAND!!!!

I have AEM wideband A/F gauge, boost and EGT(exhaust gas temperature) on my A pillar. Here's a picture just to give you an idea:

[BlackJack]

oh man....the hottest thing is definitely the "racing bucket seat" cell phone holder......I like it, no shit.

[BlackJack]

and BlackJack, I'll definetely get a wideband sensor either way I go because I've heard the wideband can't handle the psi above about 2.

oops I meant I've heard the stock sensor can't handle over 2 psi:lol: Sorry my mistake

um....I have not been able to make sense of what you're trying to say yet. An A/F setup, either stock or wideband has absolutely nothing to do with psi.

if we're going to talk about psi and how it relates to A/F setups .....(weird)........ then if it makes you feel any better, I'm running 12psi daily, and 15psi for limited events using factory O2 sensor, and only my PowrTuner for determining readings in mV.

and....If you go wideband, it's not just a sensor, you have to buy a wideband "setup" which includes the sensor, the electronics that process the signal, and a readout, which depending on the co. could be a boxy looking display, or a guage like spilner and spy's. Either way, make sure you have external outputs on the processor in case you want to integrate it with another system (like the PowrTuner for example)

spilner and spy, can ya link me to where you bought your AEM's at? I wanna compare them to some of the systems I've been looking at.

[Cliff8928]

So, just wondering on the wideband, do you replace your stock sensor with it (and use the narrow band output from the wideband controller) or do you just use it in addition to the stock sensor?

[BlackJack]

from what I've seen most people do, you use the wideband sensor, and it goes piggy-back style to both your narrow band in your PCM, and the wideband in your new setup. This way the PCM gets the readings it needs, and you use the wideband hardware to make adjustments.

So, in effect, both your stock computer and the wideband stand-alone will be using the same sensor. This is just what I have been told by others that are using one.

[alerored04]

Spilner that is a very nice setup. Looks great, simple to use, and from what i can see you did real quality work on the install.

[Cliff8928]

from what I've seen most people do, you use the wideband sensor, and it goes piggy-back style to both your narrow band in your PCM, and the wideband in your new setup. This way the PCM gets the readings it needs, and you use the wideband hardware to make adjustments.

So, in effect, both your stock computer and the wideband stand-alone will be using the same sensor. This is just what I have been told by others that are using one.

Ok, but the PCM needs the simulated HO2S signal from the UEGO controller to work right with it, correct? Does the UEGO heater element wires just connect to the stock HO2S wires (since the PCM monitors the heater circuit)?

[BlackJack]

unfortunately, I can't take you any further on hookup or use of the wideband setup. Talk to jabartram on it, he just installed his, and said it's working like a champ.

[Spilner521]

Geez guys, I'm not here for a day and everyone thinks widebands are the most difficult things to own. Truth is, they're very simple, especially the AEM unit. You open the box to find a sensor, a thick wire, and a gauge...that's it. The processors and all that junk are in the gauge. You mount the gauge wherever you want, hook up the power wires, run the sensor wire through the firewall and plug the sensor in the downpipe, into a seperate bung than the stock sensor. The stock sensor stays. Nothing to calibrate, nothing to set up, nothing fancy to do whatsoever. You turn on the engine, and it'll start giving you accurate, real time A/F readings right away. I'm all about doing things right and all, and I love when the right things are so easy.

[Spilner521]

I HAVE THE SAME WIDEBAND!!!!
NO WAY SO DO I!!! :p




I'm only playin with ya.

[Spilner521]

oh man....the hottest thing is definitely the "racing bucket seat" cell phone holder......I like it, no shit.
It holds a cell phone pretty well and it actually says Recaro on the seat too :thumb:

Wow, I'd love to get my interior peices carbon fiber... SEXAY! :)
I actually got that kit on eBay. They're just overlays, but they actually look pretty good and they're real carbon fiber, not that "carbon fiber look" crap that doesn't look anything like it.

Spilner that is a very nice setup. Looks great, simple to use, and from what i can see you did real quality work on the install.
Thanks. I try to pick the easiest parts to work with that are still quality parts. There's a few things I could have done nicer, but everything turned out OK. Wait 'til you see the Ecotec when everything is installed. Every little thing that can look good will look great, as well as be functional :thumb:

And for anyone that would like to know, I'm working on a write up all about turbos, how they work, and the parts you need to make your own basic kit. Hopefully this will help many people who don't know the first thing about turbocharging. Also, from some of the other misinformed posts around here, I'll need to make an exhaust write up also. I'll post them in the General Performance forum when I'm finished and hopefully they'll become stickies.

[Cliff8928]

Geez guys, I'm not here for a day and everyone thinks widebands are the most difficult things to own. Truth is, they're very simple, especially the AEM unit. You open the box to find a sensor, a thick wire, and a gauge...that's it. The processors and all that junk are in the gauge. You mount the gauge wherever you want, hook up the power wires, run the sensor wire through the firewall and plug the sensor in the downpipe, into a seperate bung than the stock sensor. The stock sensor stays. Nothing to calibrate, nothing to set up, nothing fancy to do whatsoever. You turn on the engine, and it'll start giving you accurate, real time A/F readings right away. I'm all about doing things right and all, and I love when the right things are so easy.


You mean you don't have anything like this?

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=81

I didn't find anything like you described on their site. Also, I'd rather only have ONE sensor than 2. (that's why that controller in the link has the 0-1v output for the PCM)

[Spilner521]

You mean you don't have anything like this?

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=81

I didn't find anything like you described on their site. Also, I'd rather only have ONE sensor than 2. (that's why that controller in the link has the 0-1v output for the PCM)
Nope nothing like that. That one actually looks like you replace your stock sensor with that one if you were running a full stand-alone engine management system and this would plug into the stand-alone and it would take A/F readings from this, plus you could also add the gauge to monitor the readings easier.

Here you go...it was under digital gauges: http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=67

That's what I have. The newer gauges that they have out now come with different color faces and bezels so you can mix and match to go with your interior. I had to order mine in one color.

Having 2 sensors isn't that big of a deal. You just put another bung right next to the stock one and plug in the wideband sensor. The stock one you'll need still to work with the stock pcm, while the wideband is basically just so you get incredibly accurate A/F readings for tuning purposes.

[sorrowfulkiller]

I feel really stupid now... I was thinking the O2 sensor was somehwere near the throttle body for some reason xD

In that case I probably won't go with a wideband until after I get the turbo setup and the other two gauges in.

[Spilner521]

Don't worry about it. A lot of people don't know everything about everything. That's what this forum is here for.

Looks like I'll have to hurry up with that Turbo write up.

[sorrowfulkiller]

stupid question deleted

[sorrowfulkiller]

Also, do you think I could get the downpipe made before I put everything together or would I have to do it afterwards?

[Spilner521]

Also, do you think I could get the downpipe made before I put everything together or would I have to do it afterwards?
You'd have to do it kind of in the middle of the install. The exhaust manifolds would have to be in place as well as the turbo and anything else the downpipe would be around. Then you could have the downpipe fitted and tacked up, and then taken out and fully welded. Making your own kit, you have to do everything a little at a time.

[sorrowfulkiller]

So in other words have an extra car to get around xD

[Spilner521]

Or have a someone that's nice enough to drive you around everywhere while the car is down like I did (girlfriend) :thumb:

[BlackJack]

Hey BlackJack! How much did it cost for you to get your exhaust done? How much should I expect to pay for a shop to weld everything together?

Cost me about $20. No muffler, no cat, just a straight pipe from the turbine.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Or have a someone that's nice enough to drive you around everywhere while the car is down like I did (girlfriend) :thumb:

Eh, one of my friend has an old crappy beater car, I figure I could borrow it for a couple weeks or so for like $100.



Cost me about $20. No muffler, no cat, just a straight pipe from the turbine.

xD How effing loud is that? I want this to be legal... so I have to atleast have a muffler and cat.

[BlackJack]

pretty much no where close to legal, and probably not good for your hearing either.

[kwhauck]

pretty much no where close to legal, and probably not good for your hearing either.

i knew there was a reason I liked you......lol......sounds like my exhaust setup......

[sorrowfulkiller]

What about the peice thats in front of the throttle body (stock it runs from the TB back towards the back of the engine near the rear headers)
When someone would get a cai would that be moved or would I have to move it because of the turbo?

If I would have to move it wtf should I do with it?

[BlackJack]

if you're referring to a black tube that comes from the intake pipe just before the TB and runs to the back, it passes under the coil packs, then it's the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation). Basically has a checkvalve in the rear valve cover, and lets excess fumes and pressure to be routed back to the intake. Since it's petroleum based vapor and fumes, it helps lube the top end, as well as relieves pressure from inside the engine.

If that's what you're referring to, it wont work properly under boost, and that's why I run a breather on my front valve cover, and have PCV removed/disabled.

If you're referring to the IAT sensor, it looks like a sensor with two wires coming out of it. Someone already posted their fix for it under boost. My fix was to run a LS6 MAF with integrated IAT and just reprogram for the new frequencies. That way there's nothing to get popped out under boost.

[sorrowfulkiller]

if you're referring to a black tube that comes from the intake pipe just before the TB and runs to the back, it passes under the coil packs, then it's the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation). Basically has a checkvalve in the rear valve cover, and lets excess fumes and pressure to be routed back to the intake. Since it's petroleum based vapor and fumes, it helps lube the top end, as well as relieves pressure from inside the engine.

If that's what you're referring to, it wont work properly under boost, and that's why I run a breather on my front valve cover, and have PCV removed/disabled.

If you're referring to the IAT sensor, it looks like a sensor with two wires coming out of it. Someone already posted their fix for it under boost. My fix was to run a LS6 MAF with integrated IAT and just reprogram for the new frequencies. That way there's nothing to get popped out under boost.

Thanks for the help, I'll look into it abit more.

Did you get a push in style one?

[BlackJack]

breather? yeah. Nice Moroso unit.

[sorrowfulkiller]

What about your MAF sensor, you got a C-5 one correct?

Will it work with a stock TB?


....nvm about the C-5 one... how did you find one that worked? Did you just search around, ask shops?

[BlackJack]

no, I just went and got a new C5 MAF with the factory GM connector. It works on the same principle, just operates in a different frequency range. I cross-checked the wiring diagram on both cars, matched them up, then went in my computer and adjusted to compensate.

It's a 85mm which I think equivilates to about 3.5", so if you're using 3" intake piping, you need a reducer coupler on either end of it. And just put it where the original one goes, right before the TB.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Spiffy, I'll probably ask how you compensated for it in the computer later.... probably before I put in the turbo, and just hook it up to a CAI for the time being.

[BlackJack]

I wouldn't bother. Like putting the horse behind the cart.

It's not going to give you a performance gain until the turbo goes in. In fact, without the boost, it will actually slow you down.

under N/A conditions, you want all your intake path the same diameter, if it widens out then narrows again, it causes more turbulence, and therefore more restriction.

[sorrowfulkiller]

what about the oil line to the tubo... where will I get the oil from?

oh, btw I just realized that I could have an airport landing strip at my disposal when I start to tune it xD One of my mom's bosses has his own plane and I'm sure they wouldn't mind a couple high speed runs on the strip.

[BlackJack]

oil line. Best source is at your oil galley that comes out the front of the block just next to the oil filter, put in a "T" fitting and hose to feed.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Hey blackjack, you think germ could make me a set of your headers in a couple months? If so, could you ask him how much he'd be willing to sell them for?

[BlackJack]

Last he told me was that he wasn't taking on future projects until further notice. However, I do know he has several things in development right now and I think he'll be ready to unveil before too long. Once he's done with his current projects, we should be able to get word on if he's going to continue to make stuff again for the public.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Hope he'll come back into the game then, seems to me if he could make turbo headers for our cars he would definitly have a market to sell them to.

[sorrowfulkiller]

So, I'm thiking you had to take out the engine when you drilled the oli return line in or is there anyway to take the oil reservoir off, drill then put it back in?

[BlackJack]

Oil pan has to be removed, that's a given. In order to remove the oil pan, you're probably going to have to jack up the body, and lower the front subframe to get it to clear, which is easier than pulling the engine loose and then up. Depends on what resources you have available.

[sorrowfulkiller]

i'm thinking jacking up the body would be just tad bit easier for me, my friend who's helping me has gone that same route with jacking it up

[Spilner521]

I only jacked up the car like I would if I was going to change the oil to pull out the pan...the nice thing about having a 4 cylinder. I've never seen the size or depth of the V6 oil pan so I don't know if this is possible, and the way BJ is talking, it sounds like it isn't.

[BlackJack]

yeah, the oil pan edges are over a part of the sub-frame/crossmember, and you can unbolt it with no problem, but you can't drop the pan down low enough to clear the crank without lowering the front subframe.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Yeah, I see what you mean now Blackjack now that I looked under my car.

Should be really fun doing all this xD I got someone to do all the welding so no problems there...

[BlackJack]

best of luck to ya

[sorrowfulkiller]

Hey Spilner, when you tuned your A/F ratio did you use anything to check for kr or did you just do it by ear? I'm only asking because I'm thinking that if I used extra injectors it would work much better for me because if I would ever go travelling with my car I want to have the option of being able to change settings without having to retune it at every altitude, which I'm thinking would work better if I used your setup Spilner. I'm just debating whether to use the dhp tuner to make sure I'm not getting any kr and to adjust minor things or if I should hold off on it until next summer.

[Spilner521]

All I did was tune 'til I had 11.7 in boost and I made sure my EGT's didn't get too high. Honestly I don't know if I have any knock. When the EGT's start to get high is when you can tell it's getting lean and probably knocking. When I first tuned it, the EGT's were pretty high (+/- 1800°) when the engine would transition from vacuum to boost. So I started the fuel a little earlier (just before 0 vacuum/boost, at about -2in. vacuum) and that took care of it. Now from 0 to 8psi, and all the way to redline I have a consistant 11.7 A/F ratio and 1500°-1600° EGT's and it runs really good.

[sorrowfulkiller]

I'm liking that setup more and more... and considering that the engine runs fine, I doubt you have any knock... if you did, by now you would probably have a lot of problems xD

If I would do a six injector setup though... I would have no clue how to mount them... and where... would I have to mount them onto the UIM with one hooked up to each separate portion or what? I'm thinking that putting two up by the throttle body would be fine though... since the max boost I'll be doing in fairly near future would be upwards of 12... nothing too outragous, and I could always change out that portion near the TB with another peice and change it to a six injector setup later.

[Spilner521]

If I was you I'd mount the injectors into the intake manifold pointing them as much as you can directly into the runners so they spray into the cylinders. This way there's less chance of puddling, the fuel will mix better with the air, and you also don't have to worry about upgrading later. I don't know how much power you're shooting for, but you'd probably be ok using 440cc injectors for the secondaries. They'll be good for a 8-10psi setup and also leave you a little room to add some more boost when the time comes.

[rustyballs_69]

Would this work?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y137/rustyballs_69/H1CTurbo.jpg
J/K its for my truck.

[sorrowfulkiller]

yeah... as long as it's not enormous

[DOHC_tuner]

And for anyone that would like to know, I'm working on a write up all about turbos, how they work, and the parts you need to make your own basic kit. Hopefully this will help many people who don't know the first thing about turbocharging. Also, from some of the other misinformed posts around here, I'll need to make an exhaust write up also. I'll post them in the General Performance forum when I'm finished and hopefully they'll become stickies.

SPILNER i cant wait for U 2 do that write up on turbos and how 2 set one up, especialy your setup with non-flashable pcm 99' 2.4 DOHC. How u did your own tune adding extra fuel injectors, turbo to fit the 2.3 high output intake manifold, etc. Well pm when you get around 2 writing how 2 setup a turbo for the inline 4 and keeping a A/F stoichiometric mixture. I CANT WAIT:yahoo:

p.s oh yeah arent you doing a engine swap? if so what will U do with the turbocharged 2.4?

[[ion] C2]

turbo parts setup guide: http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=40&i=56976&t=56976

[rustyballs_69]

yeah... as long as it's not enormous

Its for the 5.9l cummins desiel. I would rather put it on the truck then the car.

[Spilner521]

SPILNER i cant wait for U 2 do that write up on turbos and how 2 set one up, especialy your setup with non-flashable pcm 99' 2.4 DOHC. How u did your own tune adding extra fuel injectors, turbo to fit the 2.3 high output intake manifold, etc. Well pm when you get around 2 writing how 2 setup a turbo for the inline 4 and keeping a A/F stoichiometric mixture. I CANT WAIT:yahoo:

p.s oh yeah arent you doing a engine swap? if so what will U do with the turbocharged 2.4?
You can flash the '99 PCM with a 2.4 with HPTuners, but you don't have to change the PCM tuning to add boost to any car. It's very easy to use piggyback controllers to control larger injectors or extra injectors.

Everyone seems to think the only way to turbo a car is to reprogram the PCM and that's just not the case. My car is 100% streetable and runs EXACTLY like it did when it was completely stock and I have NO PCM reprogramming at all, and I've also never had any problems with the setup.

DOHC_tuner, I'll explain everything in the write-up, but I can tell you now how I have my engine set up. First of all you mention a turbo that fits the 2.3 HO intake manifold. The intake manifold never touches the turbo so using the HO manifold doesn't have anything to do with turbocharging the engine. The turbo mounts to the exhaust manifold, so you need a different exhaust manifold for the 2.4 engine to mount the turbo to.

With that said, I have the HO intake manifold with extra injectors mounted in each runner so that thay spray into the cylinders, and I have the SDS EIC (Extra Injector Controller) to control the injectors. I have the EIC box mounted inside the car and there's knobs that you turn to set when the extra injectors fire and how much fuel they add. I also have a AEM wideband A/F gauge and an EGT gauge to tune the fuel.

Now also, you mention keeping a stoich mixture. You only want the stoich 14.7:1 A/F mixture when the engine is not in boost. When in boost you want about 11.5-12.0 fuel mixture and to keep the EGT's around 1600°. Since the extra injectors and controller are my only fuel mods, the stock PCM program, stock injectors, fuel pump, pressure regulator, etc. all still remain and still run the engine when the turbo is not spooled. So just driving around not in boost, I have a constant 14.7:1 A/F mixture and the drivability is perfectly stock. When the turbo spools and produces boost is when the extra injectors add more fuel. All I did was turn the knob on the EIC 'til I had a 11.7:1 A/F ratio and 1600° EGT's all the way through redline. Tuning took all of 15 minutes of driving around, looking at the gauges and turning a knob...pretty damn easy if you ask me.

When I swap the new engine, I'll be parting out some of the parts from the 2.4, but not everything since I'll still need some of the parts.

[MixtapeMessiah]

Let us know whats for sale, Ill scrap some money together right quick

[Spilner521]

It won't be for a little while.

[DOHC_tuner]

It won't be for a little while.

thankz 4 your response, thats a smart setup using a knob control module to add the extra fuel when needed. I like your setup because of the fact you dont need to reflash the PCM to tune the A/F permanetly and all you do is turn a knob, COOL, helps save gas uh? well iam looking 2 put down some money to begin my turbo setup, but first I want to install the 2.3 high output maninfold, intake and exhaust camshafts, smaller pulleys, and then setup up the boost levels. Your setup starts 2 sound clearer now that u explained it but where and how much was that customed exhaust manifold to hold the turbo, and also where did u get the intercooler? REAL NICE JOB SPILNER :haha: but why the swap after you have created such a masterpiece:(

[Spilner521]

thankz 4 your response, thats a smart setup using a knob control module to add the extra fuel when needed. I like your setup because of the fact you dont need to reflash the PCM to tune the A/F permanetly and all you do is turn a knob, COOL, helps save gas uh? well iam looking 2 put down some money to begin my turbo setup, but first I want to install the 2.3 high output maninfold, intake and exhaust camshafts, smaller pulleys, and then setup up the boost levels. Your setup starts 2 sound clearer now that u explained it but where and how much was that customed exhaust manifold to hold the turbo, and also where did u get the intercooler? REAL NICE JOB SPILNER :haha: but why the swap after you have created such a masterpiece:(
Thanks for the compliments. What you have planned sounds like a good start before the turbo, and those mods will help make more power with boost too.

The turbo manifold you can find on eBay or in the classifieds section on Jbody.org. Just search for a Cavalier 2.4 turbo manifold and you find a couple.

The intercooler I got from Johnnyracecar.com. The guy makes them himself and they're really good quality, but for whatever reason he stopped making then temporarily and hasn't started again yet.

Why am I swapping you ask? Basically, I want more power. I'm swapping to the newer, more efficient, more boost friendly 2.2 Ecotec engine. I'm dropping in forged internals, Comp turbo cams, fabricating my own tubular exhaust manifold as well as intake manifold, using a GT3071 ball bearing turbo and when all is said and done it'll be pushing close to 400whp. On top of that, I'll also be using a newer '04 auto transmission that will be built to handle more than 500 ft./lbs. of torque, and it'll be so strong that the engine will break before I ever have to worry about the tranny. And you thought what I have now is a masterpiece...:thumb:

[sorrowfulkiller]

xD Going well above and beyond the call of duty eh spilner?

[Spilner521]

xD Going well above and beyond the call of duty eh spilner?
That's the only way to go.

I'll be able to pull on C6 'Vettes :thumb:

[Cliff8928]

That's the only way to go.

I'll be able to pull on C6 'Vettes :thumb:


Get back to us when you can pull on a C6 Z06 :coolio:

[Spilner521]

I'm not sure If I want to push it that far. Trust me I'd really like to. The Z06 is rated at 505 and pushes around 440 to the rear wheels. I'll be pushing around 380 to the wheels. I don't know if I want to push any more without re-sleeving the engine and that's a little more work than I'd like to get into.

Who knows though, maybe the engine can take it. I'll let one of the high power Ecotec J-body guys push that much first to see if it can be done on a stock block. I'd be getting towards the limit of the turbo though, so I'd need to switch from the GT3071 to the 3076.

But seriously though...imagine seeing an Alero pull right away from a brand new Corvette...

[Cliff8928]

I know.. there would definitely be WTF look on the corvette driver's face. I think oldsman would just LOVE to see that.

I just gotta give ya a hard time with the Z06 thing.. heh. It would be awesome though.

[BlackJack]

I'd be willing to put money on it that even if you were able to put down enough HP to the wheels in excess of what the Z06 is rated for, you'd still have traction issues that would still hold you back.

[Spilner521]

I'd be willing to put money on it that even if you were able to put down enough HP to the wheels in excess of what the Z06 is rated for, you'd still have traction issues that would still hold you back.
True, but that could be worked out with some sticky tires, the right suspension setup and gear dependant boost control, which is exactly what I have planned.

[BlackJack]

rock on.....and let me know how it went.

[Spilner521]

OK well I sent a message to Adam Hahn of Hahn Racecraft about the power levels in his Sunfire. They are pushing over 600hp and he said the stock sleeves held up perfectly fine well into 400whp and didn't show any signs of failing until 600hp was reached. Looks like a C6 Z06 'Vette is well within reach. Now I just have to make a decision on which turbo I'm going to get, either the GT3071 (450hp ball bearing turbo) or the GT3076 (500hp ball bearing turbo). Just figured I'd let anyone know that was paying attention.

[DOHC_tuner]

OK well I sent a message to Adam Hahn of Hahn Racecraft about the power levels in his Sunfire. They are pushing over 600hp and he said the stock sleeves held up perfectly fine well into 400whp and didn't show any signs of failing until 600hp was reached. Looks like a C6 Z06 'Vette is well within reach. Now I just have to make a decision on which turbo I'm going to get, either the GT3071 (450hp ball bearing turbo) or the GT3076 (500hp ball bearing turbo). Just figured I'd let anyone know that was paying attention.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alerored04]

/\ thats what i was thinking. With traction and numbers like that you will be pushing past spy's numbers. Are you gonna stick with the auto? What are your plans to make it handle the power? Traction ideas?

[Spilner521]

/\ thats what i was thinking. With traction and numbers like that you will be pushing past spy's numbers. Are you gonna stick with the auto? What are your plans to make it handle the power? Traction ideas?
Yep I'm sticking with the auto. I just bought an '04 auto tranny and it's being built right now. It'll have all kinds of stronger internal parts along with a high output fluid pump and pump shaft, Raybestos Blue Plate clutches, 2560 stall torque converter and a LSD...not a LSD insert but an actual LSD, from Engineered Performance. I'll also be using an external fluid cooler and fully synthetic tranny fluid. It'll hold in excess of 500 ft/lbs of torque when finished.

Well with amount of power, I've re-thought some of my plans. I was going to use just a manual boost controller, but now I'll probably use a electronic controller so that it'll have gear specific boost control, that way it won't just melt the tires down to nothing with the touch of the gas pedal. I'm also going with the KYB AGX struts so I can adjust the stiffness of the suspension, and I'll be using Falken RT-615 tires. No doubt it'll still spin the tires, but I'll try my best to dial it in to get the quickest runs out of it. This car will still be driven every day rain or shine so I'm not making any race-only compromises.

I also have a few other tricks up my sleeve to make this car not only powerful, but incredibly responsive for a turbo car. I wanted to keep that to myself until it was all done, but maybe I'll mention it later on...

[alerored04]

cool, thanks for the update. Is that a 4t45 like the v6's or is it a different tranny such as a 4t40 maybe? If its a 45 would you mind pm'ing me the parts list and some part numbers if you have them on hand. My tranny is on its way out, ive been contemplating attempting a manual swap but im still up in the air on it so if i could find the parts required to rebuild my current tranny stronger that would help alot.

[Spilner521]

Only the V6's use the 4T45. I'll be using the 4T40, but essentially they're the same transmission with the same internal parts. Head over to http://www.nbodypower.com/nbodypower/ and get in contact with Gectek, he's the one building it for me. He'll let you know everything you need to know about your tranny.

[alerored04]

cool. I am on nbodypower, thats my car on the front page this week. But anyway i am friends with the owner of donkey punch performance and he was gonna help me build my tranny so im just looking for parts. Ill shoot gectek a pm for info. Thanks.

[sorrowfulkiller]

Sorry about bringing this thread back from the dead for the millionth time... but I need to ask, on just about any car where is the best place to tap into pressurized oil for the turbo?

Me and my buddy were working on his civic and we hit a dead end... wrong intercooler piping and we need to know a bit more about the oil in line

[Spilner521]

Get a T fitting and install it where the factory oil pressure sensor is. From there you can plug the sensor back into one side of the T and run a feed line from the other side to the turbo.