Teh Teardown and Build Up *pics*

[jackal2000]

here are some pics i took today....



whats missing? :p

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9104/teardown001cl6.jpg

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6322/teardown002bh4.jpg

here's the new engine!!! LOL j/k this is teh block, needs honed as the walls are smooth and yes it is upside down
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/8189/teardown003xl8.jpg

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6517/teardown004nx0.jpg

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4093/teardown005tx8.jpg

bad bearings, all kinds of scrapes on most of em
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/8302/teardown006od1.jpg

whaddaya mean it was burning oil???? ya dont say...
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/2884/teardown007pb6.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3393/teardown008ue0.jpg

[jackal2000]

old heads
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4160/teardown009wc0.jpg

pistons are fine, just a lil dirty so they cleaned em up
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4245/teardown011qb4.jpg

crank anyone?
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4766/teardown012hx6.jpg

another pic of the block, i tried taking it so it would show the smooth walls but it didnt turn out too well
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/895/teardown013me0.jpg

lastly, here's my car sittin on the lift
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8769/teardown010qx9.jpg

[Silentalero]

http://www.eh2.org/img/orlypumpkin.jpg

[ptrudel]

^holy fuckin useless post mark lol

cool jon...keep us updated on the build, should be interesting...i have a buddy lookin at the same kit for his impala

[Satsuriku]

^ lol

thats was good haha ill have to wait til i get home to see pics

[Silentalero]

lol useless post of the year goes to......

[alerocar01]

who's hand is that in the picture

[jackal2000]

who's hand is that in the picture

who cares?? its the mechanics

[burg03]

How much is this costing you?

[jackal2000]

lets see.....

$850 to pull the motor, $1200 for the rebuild, ~$500 for new bearings, installing the crank pulley, installing the tranny mount, and i still need to discuss with them further on the tranny cooler. I found one at NAPA for like $50 so we'll see.

[BlackJack]

who's hand is that in the picture

who cares?? its the mechanics

That's jackal :p

Jeez, you're getting hammered on that rebuild.

Oh, and check ZZPerformance for a nicely sized B&M cooler for around $46+ shipping.

[jackal2000]

i actually consider this rebuild to be competitively priced considering the area. DC metro is by no means the cheapest part of the country lol

i'll check that site in a minute...

oh and i almost forgot, dyno tuning should be around $200.

[Redog]

Nice!!

[jackal2000]

BJ, zzp no longer sells those coolers.

[BlackJack]

that's an interesting change from 3 days ago, they still had some.

[01GrandAm]

i actually consider this rebuild to be competitively priced considering the area. DC metro is by no means the cheapest part of the country lol

i'll check that site in a minute...

oh and i almost forgot, dyno tuning should be around $200.

You are going to want to get it dialed in as close as you can on the street before you hop on the dyno. Trust me it will be hard to get a excellent tune in any time under a week.

[BlackJack]

Dyno tuning for $200? usually it's $150 to tie it down and one pull. A full tune is going to take several pulls. If you got that low of a deal, either you got lucky, or you should take a closer look at who's tuning it.

[jackal2000]

im gonna be there when they do it since the software is on my personal laptop. granted, i have a limited knowledge base but i should be able to tell if it is right or not.

and its not a roller dyno, its a chassis dyno pack.

[jackal2000]

just got an email from the shop.....teh block is no good. well, it would be good if i had bigger pistons (.020" over) but i dont. so now i gotta find a new/gentley used block or spring for the pistons. pistons would be around $700. how much do you think i can get a block for?

[jackal2000]

question for you gurus....would "sleeving" the block fix my situation? i heard that shit is expensive though....

[BlackJack]

haven't heard of anyone doing that with a 3400 before...see it all the time in 4-bangers though.

[jackal2000]

i have heard that its mostly for alum blocks, not sure if it can be done on an iron one...

[jackal2000]

anyone know a company that can make sleeves???

[jturkey69]

we have done iron blocks in the past, mostly small chevy though for the dirt track scene. I will try to call my uncle to find out what company we had gotten them from, maybe they can be had for the 3400...do you know what bore size, and depth stock off hand? I only did the installation, not the boring to get the proper size. scour them junkyards bro, there has to be a minivan or other gm car wrecked close by

[jackal2000]

yea i gotta call the junkyards when i get off work. the problem will be finding a block with low miles. 100k+ mile block really does me no good. and please do let me know what you find out.

[mustang_killer]

buy a new block imo, You'll get a used one for $500+. If I remember right, there are some risks with sleeving it, and Major Cash.

[jackal2000]

buy a new block imo, You'll get a used one for $500+. If I remember right, there are some risks with sleeving it, and Major Cash.

if its gonna cost 500 bucks for a block i'll just buy the pistons

[ptrudel]

do the pistons then lol

i dunno what a block's worth, but pistons are probly gonna run you what, 350-400?

[jackal2000]

more like $160ish plus shipping for all 6

[jackal2000]

well, i might be getting some Hypereutectic Pistons from A.R.I. racing. i think they are the ones for the DOHC 3.4

this will sky rocket my CR to about 11:1 so my heads which are already milled .005 will need some more. anyone know how else to reduce CR? thicker gasket?

[jturkey69]

have you checked 60degreev6 website?

no call back on my uncle yet

[jackal2000]

yea i have been looking there and i actually got some response from Ben on gagt.

[burg03]

Do you think you will be at the track next friday jack?

[jackal2000]

the pistons wont be here til MAYBE wednesday and thats not a lot of time for the guys to put it all back together so probably not unfortunately.

[jabartram]

well, i might be getting some Hypereutectic Pistons from A.R.I. racing. i think they are the ones for the DOHC 3.4

this will sky rocket my CR to about 11:1 so my heads which are already milled .005 will need some more. anyone know how else to reduce CR? thicker gasket?

why do you think it will raise your compression so high? .005 is only really surfacing the head to make sure its not warped and seals properly, yes a thicker head gasket will drop the compression ratio a little. 11:1 is ok, unless you are gonna go boost. thats what my old 82 mustang ran. and you have a PT to work out the KR.

[jackal2000]

have you seen the DOCH pistons?? they are pretty much flat top with 4 valve reliefs cut into em. something like 7cc's taken out otherwise they would be total flat tops. im fairly certain that the 3400 pistons have a 27cc dish.

[jabartram]

have you seen the DOCH pistons?? they are pretty much flat top with 4 valve reliefs cut into em. something like 7cc's taken out otherwise they would be total flat tops. im fairly certain that the 3400 pistons have a 27cc dish.

then you can have the valve reliefs machined deeper and larger.

[jackal2000]

then you can have the valve reliefs machined deeper and larger.

only if need be. its kinda silly anyways considering the 3400 only has 2 valves. i figure i can gain approx 3% of power per 1 point of C/R increase. from my research, i learned that gasoline engines can run on pump gas (93 octane for me obviously) up to 13:1 C/R and diesel (your experience) is 14:1 and up. correct?

[jabartram]

only if need be. its kinda silly anyways considering the 3400 only has 2 valves. i figure i can gain approx 3% of power per 1 point of C/R increase. from my research, i learned that gasoline engines can run on pump gas (93 octane for me obviously) up to 13:1 C/R and diesel (your experience) is 14:1 and up. correct?


well higher compression does mean more power, it also means higher combustion temps, and anything above 11.5:1 93 octane is pushing it, you have to pull back on the timing to keep away from preignition. and you need to increase the cooling system capacity to keep up with the extra temps. and diesels normally run 20:1 to 30:1.

[jackal2000]

my goal is 11:1. how can i increase cooling capacity? bigger radiator?

[jabartram]

my goal is 11:1. how can i increase cooling capacity? bigger radiator?


i'm looking into a custom 3 core copper radiator.

[jackal2000]

sweet, lemme know what you come up with. perhaps if we both order one it will be cheaper lol

[01GrandAm]

any update?

[jackal2000]

actually yes. i got the pistons in today at 330pm and rushed them over to the shop. they are dropping off the necessary parts at the machine shop on monday. they said it might take a week and half to two weeks to put it all back together so im planning on having the car back on the 27th. :)

high compression FTW

[jackal2000]

UPDATE

everything is still at the machine shop to my knowledge. im still hoping to have the car back by the end of next week though.....

[BlackJack]

heh, better go check, or you might have another Aftermath incident.

[jackal2000]

LOL i was at the speed shop just yesterday and saw my car chillin out behind the shop. not too worried in the theft department. the motor on the other hand....when they start putting it back together the guy said he would call me cause i want to take more pics.

[burg03]

Well when I guess should check this shop out since I am in the area,...kinda. Whats the name and address

[jackal2000]

www.bandtmotorsports.com

its right off 395 pretty much....

[jackal2000]

nother update. one of the guys at the shop called me at 6ish and said that everything is on schedule and going well EXCEPT they asked my permission to cut and lengthen the crossover pipe on the headers cause it was like an inch short. of course i said yes (what other option is there?). might have the car back by tomorrow night.....

[MixtapeMessiah]

That is awesome dude, everything looks good, Id definitely clean and polish up those runners tho.

[jackal2000]

another update hah

i talked to one the mech's around 845pm and he said they got the car running today but still have to some small things to it. i.e crank case relearn and check for leaks. so monday is the day! he did tell me that everyone at the shop was shocked at how "healthy" the cam sounded ;) im off work monday so this is going to work out great, i can start the tuning process. at this point, im leaning towards having them tune it for me and i can tweak it down the road.

[alerored04]

make sure to post dyno sheets, and videos or at least sound clips when you are done. I am soo jealous right now, i hate you. I just discovered that my limg is leaking again today so maybe ill do a little internal work while im down there, but alas no cam since im going boost eventually, maybe some valves etc. Im sure you are excited as hell for this to be finished, i know i would be tweaking out if it were my car.

[jackal2000]

yea i felt giggly earlier like a little school girl. LMAO

my digi cam doesnt have sound and my wife's does but her's is screwy so the vid might be whack. sound > vid though in this case so i'll see what i can do.

[alerored04]

cool thanks, i saw the milzy sponsered ga's over on gagt, they sounded soooo orgasmic. Im even excited to see #'s off it so i cant imagin how excited you are.

[jackal2000]

i just picked up my car. it sounds freakin badass. it doesnt like to idle right now which i blame on the pcm learning the fuel trims plus its still set at the stock idle rpm which im about to change via powrtuner.

[crazyalero]

so is it any faster with the heads and cam?

[BlackJack]

hahaha, he just got it back, let him get it broke in first before we start encouraging him to destroy it....

[jackal2000]

yea definitely no WOT runs yet lol hell i barely took it over 3k rpms so far. i am having a butt load of misfires though and i have no idea why.

[BlackJack]

first, is it "misfires" or KR readings?

There are a couple of things that could be wrong. One, your fueling could be too rich or too lean, and your plugs may be too hot. If you're running higher compression pistons, then you should step down to colder plugs.

Also, your fuel and timing maps will change drastically with a few internal mods, but if you've had alot of shit done with performance replacements, then you're probably going to have to retune the whole thing.

[jackal2000]

misfires. 0 kr

[BlackJack]

check all your ignition wiring, and make sure you got good spark (do the trick where you pull the plug and jump it with a spark plug to see it arc).

Whats your peak misfire count?

[jackal2000]

peak misfire count is 176 :(

the code is PO300 which i dont find to be too helpful. the guy at the shop said they did a case learn and it ddnt seem to help much with anything. is it worth a shot to try it myself? will it even let me without the P1336 code?

also, there are spots on my scan where there were NO misfires for about 10 seconds or so. happened about 4 times.

[crazyalero]

shit i hope my car dont do that when i put it all back together here in a couple of days.mike was telling me that it will start no problem and when it warms up i can wot.

[jackal2000]

i think i might just delete the P0300 DTC all together. the engine doesnt sound like its missing and i think its just because of the cam.

oh and for the record, the pistons i have are NOT high compression after all. the machine shop cc'd them and the dish is just a hair smaller than stock so my CR is still around stock maybe .2 higher. the one thing im a little upset about it the parts cleaner they used on my UIM removed the powdercoating in random places so it looks like shit now.

[BlackJack]

send me a copy of your .bin file and the scan if you dont mind....

I can look at it later tonight or tomorrow. In the mean time, trouble shoot the obvious stuff.

[jackal2000]

http://www.gmv6pcm.com/index.php?showtopic=4409

post #4

thanks BJ

[crazyalero]

hope everything works out for you man

[jackal2000]

me too. i need to have my car somewhat tuned so i can race it this sunday lol

between now and then i need to drive it close to 250miles and change the oil. this is surprisingly difficult because i round trip to work is <10 miles.

[crazyalero]

take her for a long ass cruise! how does it sound with that cam in there

[jackal2000]

hmmmm...........lumpy?? lol sounds like a v8 to me.


and it vibrates the whole car at idle. my wife said, "OMG why did you want this??!!" made me LMFAO.

[crazyalero]

bad ass man. peeps going to be looking at you like wtf

[jackal2000]

so i did another scan today....0 misfires. wtf? all i did was fiddle with my intake and clear the DTCs. i drove it for about 30 minutes at varying speeds and not a single miss. weird.

[alero168]

any pics?

[crazyalero]

thats good wright

[jackal2000]

yea no misfires is a good thing but i forgot to mention that the AFR is 7.8:1 and i dont think it should be anywhere near that rich. its essentially gulping down gas.

i'll go take some pics now. i was taking a sound clip a little bit ago but it wouldnt idle right. i'll try again.

one more thing, the shop used regular green coolant, not dexcool. i dont think i should have any issues from this, should i?

[crazyalero]

some sound would be cool!

[2fst4u]

you shouldn't have an issue with the coolant, as long as the other coolant was sufficiently flushed out. green + orange = jello.

[jackal2000]

i was wrong about the misfires, they are there but no ses light came on.

[jackal2000]

i just talked to milzy and he said i should i do what he does and delete the P0300 DTC and only worry about P0301, 302 etc.

[crazyalero]

what kind of spark plugs r you runing and at what gap

[jackal2000]

autolite 104s, gapped to .050 as per milzy's direction.

[crazyalero]

i just got off the phone with him. he sent me everything but the pcm. so how is she pulling

[jackal2000]

she pulls decently, i still havent opened up to WOT yet but i did take her to around 4500rpms and it felt good, no issues. well, the only issue is how fawkin loud the car is lmao. just driving around the parking lot at work i set off an alarm LOLZ

yesterday and this morning there was a pretty heavy burning smell, i assumed it was just normal as the engine breaks in because now it has subsided quite a bit.

eventually i will have to change some shift points around to make use of the higher power band.

[crazyalero]

o shit so its loud!

[jackal2000]

yea i have TOG headers, 2.25" exhaust, no resonator, flowmaster 40 series = LOUD

[crazyalero]

so is it annoyingly loud?i think im going to go 2.5" exhaust

[jackal2000]

i dont find it annoying but my wife does lol

[jackal2000]

bj, will deleting the P0300 DTC not allow the P0301 etc codes to show? a guy from the DHP forum said thats what it does on his 99 gtp and im not sure.

[BlackJack]

that's fine, but seriously...those misfires are there for a reason. Keep a close eye on it, and dont trust everything that milzy says.

[jackal2000]

oh i know. the guys at the shop said pretty much the same thing though.

[jackal2000]

i just rescanned the car and found some more DTCs

P0300 (of course)
P0122
P1122
P1133

those middle 2 i believe are due to a bad TPS. the funny part is i bought a new one months ago when i had the surging idle problem but it went away and i forgot about it. anyone know how hard it is to install??

that last code seems to be an upstream O2 sensor issue. hmmm....is this because of the headers?

[jabartram]

i just rescanned the car and found some more DTCs

P0300 (of course)
P0122
P1122
P1133

those middle 2 i believe are due to a bad TPS. the funny part is i bought a new one months ago when i had the surging idle problem but it went away and i forgot about it. anyone know how hard it is to install??

that last code seems to be an upstream O2 sensor issue. hmmm....is this because of the headers?

disable the downstream O2 code, there are 3 codes that need to be disabled.

[jackal2000]

do you remember which ones off hand?

[jabartram]

do you remember which ones off hand?

i completely removed my downstream O2 and disabled these codes.

Codes need to remove w/ no cat or high flow cat:
P0420 Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)
p0421 Warm Up Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)

Codes need to remove when rear o2 sensor is unplugged:
P0137 O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0140 O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 1 Sensor 2)

[jackal2000]

thanks james.

ok, so this morning i replaced the TPS and let the car idle for a little more than 10 minutes and everything seems fine. last night i did disable the P0300 code but i am not sure if i will leave it like that. i have driven the car maybe 10 miles and i have no SES lights on so i assume no codes are thrown. i will probably rescan when i get off work tonight. on the way to work i did open up the throttle quite a bit but i dont think i quite hit WOT. the car pulls very decently after 3500RPMs as i pretty much expected considering the specs on the cam.

[jackal2000]

im having my car professionally tuned on saturday. yea i could do it myself but it would probably take months and still not even be right. time isnt on my side since Imports vs Domestics is this Sunday so i cant be dick dancing around. i'll be posting dyno sheets saturday night.

[BlackJack]

let me know how much that ends up costing :D

I've done all my own tuning, but I wasn't time pressured. Just curious.

[jackal2000]

$95/hr

i dont think it'll take more than a couple hours.

[01GrandAm]

$95/hr

i dont think it'll take more than a couple hours.

I would expect to spend more than a "couple of hours" When tuning OBD2 vehicles, you should really try to get it dialed in as close as possible on the street.

The problem is that on the dyno, if you make changes to fueling you should reset your fuel trims. The computer must then go through a relearn process. The guys over on Gmv6pcm.com recommend atleast 20 mins and an on/off cycle between changes before you even try to rescan or your data is considered inaccurate.

[jackal2000]

i'll take that into consideration. if it takes longer than a couple hours (i think 3 is my max right now) then i will halt just for my checkbooks sake, but by doing this i will get 2 things:
1) dyno numbers
2) a good start on the tune

by resetting the fuel trims are you talking about disconnecting the battery? i think a full write would save time but it is also risky right?

[01GrandAm]

i'll take that into consideration. if it takes longer than a couple hours (i think 3 is my max right now) then i will halt just for my checkbooks sake, but by doing this i will get 2 things:
1) dyno numbers
2) a good start on the tune

by resetting the fuel trims are you talking about disconnecting the battery? i think a full write would save time but it is also risky right?

Ok when you do a partial write, it there is a box that you can check that says "clear fuel trim upon write" (something to that effect)

Also there is no need to do full writes, just set it to auto and let the DHP software decide what it wants to do. 95% of the time it uses a partial write, which is alot faster.

I would start with a VE tune and then follow up with MAF tunes.

I am not sure if you have used the table editor that Eddie-98GTP created, but it helps alot.

[jackal2000]

i havent and one HUGE issue i have right now is i only have the trial version of microsoft office.

[01GrandAm]

Try http://www.openoffice.org/

[jackal2000]

Try http://www.openoffice.org/

thanks, downloading now.

[BlackJack]

you using stock size injectors? I can't remember.

[jackal2000]

you using stock size injectors? I can't remember.
yes sir

you might remember me talkin to ya about upgrading to 36#s but i didnt.....yet.

[crazyalero]

i just finish putting my 36lb injectors there a pain in the ass!!

[BlackJack]

I dont know why but my subscription to this thread isn't working that great.

Get your fuel trims dialed in to within +/- 10 LTFT with VE, then use MAF to fine tune it. After you get it all smoothed out, start adding timing little by little. Once you see a little KR at the timing advance you just added, compensate with more fuel, and repeat. Once you get to the point where adding fuel doesn't get rid of the KR, then drop the timing back a hair till the KR is gone.

[jackal2000]

it sounds so much simpler than it is lol

i'll do another scan in the morning and go from there. thanks for the help, it is appreciated.

[crazyalero]

hows the beast doing??

[jackal2000]

she's doing fine and will be even better after tomorrow :D


pics in a minute...

[jackal2000]

the parts cleaner they used screwed up the finish on my UIM pretty good but oh well for now.
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8789/engine003jt0.jpg

notice the shiney tranny mount..
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1231/engine004vm3.jpg

tranny cooler
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5974/engine005ue7.jpg

[crazyalero]

nice!

[crazyalero]

were did you get your tranny mount??

[crazyalero]

sound clip??

[jackal2000]

were did you get your tranny mount??
Z-Spec out of Canada. formerly known as RSM racing. no sound clips yet, maybe tomorrow on the dyno.

[jackal2000]

so my car is throwing a DTC 442 now. makes me think they screwed up the install of the cat. ideas? im hoping i just need a new gas cap and its not something serious.

[-Alero-]

sounds like alot more trouble than it should be sheesh

[crazyalero]

you get her running smooth yet?????

[jackal2000]

you get her running smooth yet?????

runs smooth, but far from tuned. how about you?

[crazyalero]

no probs! she fires wright up and runs great!

[jackal2000]

no probs! she fires wright up and runs great!
you tune it yet?

[crazyalero]

no but i prob need to so i can free up even more power!

[jackal2000]

you need to get to a dyno and see whats up

[crazyalero]

ya i know i just need to find one around here.around how much does it run to do a couple of runs??

[jackal2000]

here i can get 3 power pulls for $65

[crazyalero]

thats not to bad. i know theres one here i just need to call around.

[crazyalero]

any updates?

[jackal2000]

VE tune is complete. much thanks to sprucegagt! we spent 11hrs on saturday working on it. PITA.

[crazyalero]

so shes ready for the track??

[jackal2000]

so shes ready for the track??
oh noes. not even close. still have to do PE tuning. im thinking i might be able to advance the timing by about 5 degrees also. i already added approximatly that much at idle so we'll see.

[crazyalero]

good luck with that!i still need to go hit up the dyno

[jackal2000]

i completely removed my downstream O2 and disabled these codes.

Codes need to remove w/ no cat or high flow cat:
P0420 Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)
p0421 Warm Up Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)

Codes need to remove when rear o2 sensor is unplugged:
P0137 O2 Sensor Circuit Low Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 2)
P0140 O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 1 Sensor 2)

james, my car threw a 138 today which is opposite of 137. im going to add it to my list of disabled dtc's but im curious if you ever set it on your car?

[jabartram]

james, my car threw a 138 today which is opposite of 137. im going to add it to my list of disabled dtc's but im curious if you ever set it on your car?


no, i have never gotten that code. i'll look it up.

[Beholder88]

Hey all, first time reading this thread. Just wanted to see if there has been any news. Hows the car Jackal? This seemed like a really big thing to have done. I'd like to see some dyno numbers and hear the thing running!

[jackal2000]

had it dynoed two months ago and made 187whp and 187lb-ft of tq, all with a lean 14.0 air/fuel. i need to get larger fuel injectors and new spark plugs, but i have been putting it off since it runs fine. i have put close to 28k on the motor so far and nothing has broken. :)

[Midgear]

*cough* soundclip! *cough*

[jabartram]

had it dynoed two months ago and made 187whp and 187lb-ft of tq, all with a lean 14.0 air/fuel. i need to get larger fuel injectors and new spark plugs, but i have been putting it off since it runs fine. i have put close to 28k on the motor so far and nothing has broken. :)

your running 14 to 1 under full throttle? 14.0 is slightly rich not lean at idle and cruising speeds, you should be closer to 12.0, increase the output of you stock injectors for now, run some wot logs and post them on nbodypower and i'll try to see whats happening.

[01silveralero]

^my guess would be the different throttle body he has on there without even having to look at the logs.

[BlackJack]

^my guess would be the different throttle body he has on there without even having to look at the logs.

Not a good idea to "guess" when it comes to tuning. That's how shit blows up. jabartram is 100% right about analyzing some scans.

[jackal2000]

well, five and half years after the build and probably 60k miles the car is pretty much dead. my brother is telling me it hardly runs and is making all kinds of clanking noises when it is running. he took it to a shop and the guy said the motor is pretty much toast. it's not smoking out of the exhaust so i am thinking maybe the timing chain went. not sure what he is going to do. i suggested taking it down to dayton and milzy to see what he says. a new motor from milzy is about $1500 plus install and he may transfer over the performance parts that aren't ruined. what a history.

[unchained01]

well man at least ya got 5 years out of it !!!

[Blue87]

ugh, I'm glad I got rid of my Alero when I did.

If you had fun wasting the car, the car was not wasted :)

[jackal2000]

I feel bad for my brother since he only got about 6 months of life out of it.