Crate Engine Questions

[Eh_nigma]

Hey all.

This thread was lost in the change-over on the boards, so I'll ask again. I'm thinking of getting the Version four- OP2200P 2.2L Eco Crate Engine from Mantapart.

I was looking for opinions on this crate engine, anything I should know. Any other extras as well.

The plan is simple, as soon as I'm home from this tour, it's out with the old, in with the new. Now it's a matter of tracking down exactly what I'll be putting under the hood. Any help is appreciated.

[alero_ecotec]

From what I hear Mantapart does good stuff. However, you may want to contact them quite a while in advance and work out the specifics with them because I have also heard that they take their own sweet time in getting things together and out the door. Just a heads up. However whenever I've shot them an e-mail they've always been helpful and respond quickly.

[sburke]

Just to warn you (and not trying to shoot the company down) but I have called and emailed mantapart several times and I have never received a response of any form from them. A guy in my car club has also had the same experience except they actually called him back.....once.

[Cliff8928]

That's one pricey engine, you can get a new LSJ from GM for that price.

[Eh_nigma]

you can get a new LSJ from GM for that price.

Not to sound out to lunch... LSJ? Now I'm curious? Not to be rude, because that is the last thing I want to do here... but the LSJ from GM would, from the looks of things, be a bit more pricey. I could be wrong though, I'll have to call up GM tomorrow and find out. As well, the benefits of selecting a new 2.0L LSJ compared to the "extras" on the new 2.2L Version 4, though there are some, don't seem to justify getting the LSJ - but again, I could be wrong. Cliff, is there something I'm missing? (I've gotten to know the LSJ in about 2 hours after reading your comment, so any further info would be appreciated). But thank you for the suggestion none the less. And good golly miss molly am I kicking myself for having an auto...

[Spilner521]

Not to sound out to lunch... LSJ? Now I'm curious? Not to be rude, because that is the last thing I want to do here... but the LSJ from GM would, from the looks of things, be a bit more pricey. I could be wrong though, I'll have to call up GM tomorrow and find out. As well, the benefits of selecting a new 2.0L LSJ compared to the "extras" on the new 2.2L Version 4, though there are some, don't seem to justify getting the LSJ - but again, I could be wrong. Cliff, is there something I'm missing? (I've gotten to know the LSJ in about 2 hours after reading your comment, so any further info would be appreciated). But thank you for the suggestion none the less. And good golly miss molly am I kicking myself for having an auto...

So with that engine you get forged pistons and rods, mildly ported head and cams, ported intake manifold, pulleys, flywheel, and a header...all for at the very least $4500 + shipping. You could tear apart your engine and do all the same things for less than half that price. Plus, unless you're adding boost or a ton of nitrous you won't even need those pistons and rods. Then with the money left over that you would've spent on the engine, you could swap in a 5 speed.

[Eh_nigma]

Although I would like a 5 speed, and I am kicking myself over it... I have other plans for the auto, more so coming up with a setup that will allow me to have a paddle shift on the steering wheel. (oh, I can just here the groans now)... my position with the auto was something along the lines of 'when life gives you lemons...' so I thought why not take it somewhere different?

Anywho... no nitrous. Turbo, yes... eventually. But, I really can't find how getting all that comes to about half of what the crate would cost. The crate was an option, and so far, it seems like the more practical option. I'm not set in stone on the engine... I want to know what are good options out there. I want to keep it with a 2.2L Eco, but get it as close to 400-450 whp as possible, if not more. To do this, I need a good base of an Ecotec to start with. And this is what I'm looking for.

[Cliff8928]

The LSJ, part number 12499466 is $4238 from www.gmpartsdirect.com

You could also start out with a '04+ Saab 9^3 engine as well, or possibly source out a used LSJ.

There are other upgrades done to the Saab and LSJ engines to make them heavier duty, But if you've researched the LSJ, you probably already read that.

[Spilner521]

But, I really can't find how getting all that comes to about half of what the crate would cost. The crate was an option, and so far, it seems like the more practical option. I'm not set in stone on the engine... I want to know what are good options out there. I want to keep it with a 2.2L Eco, but get it as close to 400-450 whp as possible, if not more. To do this, I need a good base of an Ecotec to start with. And this is what I'm looking for.

It'll cost about half because you won't have to buy the engine, just the parts. Although I did forget to mention it'll be much cheaper to build it yourself. If you take to somewhere to have it built then obviously labor costs will bump the price quite a bit. So I agree, if you're not building it yourself, the crate engine already pre-built would be a more practical option.

For 400hp you'll need a good size turbo pushing around 30psi, a decent port job on the head and some cams...it definitely can be done with the Eco, but if you're keeping the automatic you'll have to build it to handle that kind of power. I know there's stock autos in cavaliers taking boost and even one that's pushing 300whp...but an extra 100-150hp is a lot. Good luck on the build, whatever you decide on. I'm also working on building an Eco and swapping it for my 2.4.

[Eh_nigma]

^^Thanks a lot for the help. It is proving hard to match up a turbo with an automatic (as expected), however I am making some progress... so steps in the right direction.

[ppgnut]

the guys on j-body.org have allot of info on the ecotec , i go to them my self on the engine
lingfelter his was pushing over 1,000 but that was a fully race i believe twin turbo ecotec
go check out j-body for ecotec info

[Eh_nigma]

Thanks for the heads up!

[ppgnut]

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/Ecotec-High-Performance-CNC-Ported-Head-Cyl-88958619-P333C144.aspx

http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource/downloads/engine%20assembly_stock_to_250hp.pdf

http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource/downloads/Build_Book_Parts_Update_March_06.pdf

well those are just some sites , the hp tuner program is out for the j-body ecotec, and the guys over on that site are having good results so far
good luck

[ppgnut]

http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=318797&t=318797
great inof right there

[Eh_nigma]

Wow, that last link especially, has, A LOT of info. Definately recommend anyone planning any extensive ECOtec work to read over that. Thank you so much!

[Spilner521]

I have the GM Ecotec build book in a PDF file on my other computer. If you want, tomorrow I can send it to your email, just PM me an address. It's a 160 page book from GM on how to build your Ecotec for different power levels. It tells you what parts you need and even shows step by step how to install each one with pictures. I've read the entire thing probably 3 times already....it's incredibly helpful.

Anyone else that wants it just PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

[Alero2k4]

I just sent you the engine & trans build books, check your e-mail :D

[Eh_nigma]

Received an e-mail from Mantapart...

OK-the power gains are limited by the stock ECM since we can only do a fair amount of head mods and mild cam and compression ratio upgrades before the computer cant keep up wtih it. You can make a lot of power if you install a $2000 programmable ECm, but thats tough on the budget unless you have the money to spend. A good sports engine to work with the stock computer will push close to 200hp and thats about it, we dont know what problems may arise with the a/t since we dont do any work wiht them, sorry.

Yes, no? Opinions?

[Eh_nigma]

I just sent you the engine & trans build books, check your e-mail :D

:eek: OH... WOW... That is awesome! Thanks!

[Spilner521]

Received an e-mail from Mantapart...



Yes, no? Opinions?

$2000????? Screw that. Get the HPTuners software for $650. You can basically program any changes you want into the stock PCM.

[Alero2k4]

Lol I was about to say HPTuners...that is the way to go and you can change pretty much every parameter there is to change...

[Eh_nigma]

Excellent! I'll be spending the next, ummm, while, only able to look up parts, however when I come back I'm thinking I'll get another Alero engine, tune that up to how I want it, and once it's done, then throw that into the Alero. But that wont be happening until about March at the earliest. Thanks to everyone though for their input, much appreciated.

[DUSTIN0285]

Haha thats funny, im a tech at a gm dealership and i can get a brand new 2.2 ecotec for $1300